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Aussie Squads?

 
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Aussie Squads? - 12/19/2012 3:33:06 PM   
Natali

 

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My 42 scenario is almost done except for a little fiddling around. My question is Aussie squad names. There is CMF squads and AIF squads in 1941 and 1942. Wasn't it late 1942 where they finally all got armed up the same? So would it be right to have CMF and AIF squads both upgrade to like AMF Inf Squads (or maybe just Aus Inf Squads) after September?

Thanks. Sami
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RE: Aussie Squads? - 12/19/2012 6:02:07 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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There are three types of squad

CMF Militia
CMF
AIF

These reflect different availability of repacements and armament

CMF and AIF actually have the same stats but reflect very low availability of AIF replacements for 8th Div as most AIF troops were still at this point in ME

CMF Militia upgrade to CMF from MARCH 42 as it reflects more automatic weapons becoming available to fill out TOE's

CMF and AIF upgrade to the unified AIF 42 Squad at different times to reflect teh availability and training of troops over time
A

(in reply to Natali)
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RE: Aussie Squads? - 12/19/2012 6:16:07 PM   
Natali

 

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Thanks a bunch Andy. I kept all those too. I was just wondering if it is alright to call the unified squad a AMF squad or Aus squad. It sounded a little funny calling all the squads AIF squads.

Oh yeah, I am making sure I keep the right Cmf divisions upgrading to the jungle type and keep the rest at standard type. And not moving any slots to where the AI knows where to find things.

I got a lot of Australian TOEs in the mail and thought I would share. Have no idea where thay first came from except the Babes people used them. They are big so here is the armor first.

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RE: Aussie Squads? - 12/19/2012 6:16:58 PM   
Natali

 

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and here is infantry and cavalry and reconasance

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RE: Aussie Squads? - 12/19/2012 6:17:58 PM   
Natali

 

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and here is artillery and MGs and engineers and more support

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RE: Aussie Squads? - 12/19/2012 6:40:41 PM   
Natali

 

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One last thing. Well maybe not I looked at all the Brit/CW/Aus/NZ engineers I could find and the field and the field park companies are not set up for combat and don't have much for weapons. Sure they can fight but they were not combat engineers like the Army or Marine combat engineers. The Aussie pioneers were like different they were really mean SOBs. I want to have the RE and RAE and RNZEs be more like regular engineers and the pioneers be the total assault killers. Does anybody see problems with this? besides the Babes guys but they are going to shoot me anyway.

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RE: Aussie Squads? - 12/19/2012 7:46:48 PM   
Symon


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Sam, shooting is much too good for you. I think we'll promote you instead. Check your in-box.

Ciao. JWE

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RE: Aussie Squads? - 12/19/2012 9:25:38 PM   
JeffK


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Call them Aussie squads.

Dont overrate the Pioneer Battalions.
They were not combat engineers as found in German/US Armies but better than just a pick and shovel brigade.
Capable of holding the line (as at Tobruk) they were not kitted out with flamethrowers & demo charges etc.

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RE: Aussie Squads? - 1/13/2013 6:28:13 PM   
dwg

 

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Picking this up a little late, but Pioneers weren't unique to the Australian Army, they were a standard Commonwealth formation, see http://www.royalpioneercorps.co.uk/rpc/history_main2.htm

"The Corps at its peak in May 1945 was probably the largest Corps in the Army. It included 12,000 Officers, 166,000 British Personnel and 400,000 Commonwealth Personnel. As well as being responsible for a civilian labour force of 1,074,000 and a Prisoner of war force of 173,000."

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RE: Aussie Squads? - 1/13/2013 9:10:15 PM   
Natali

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dwg

Picking this up a little late, but Pioneers weren't unique to the Australian Army, they were a standard Commonwealth formation, see http://www.royalpioneercorps.co.uk/rpc/history_main2.htm

"The Corps at its peak in May 1945 was probably the largest Corps in the Army. It included 12,000 Officers, 166,000 British Personnel and 400,000 Commonwealth Personnel. As well as being responsible for a civilian labour force of 1,074,000 and a Prisoner of war force of 173,000."

I paid a lot of attention to JeffK's comments and went and got some WE tables from UK, Aus, NZ, for them. They list carpenters, brick layers, welders, and all. They could obviously build things so I made mine as Eng squads but they weren't equiped to take out forts so their anti-armor reflects that. The weapon list was about the same as for infantry, and they were often used as infantry. But they weren't trained as infantry so their anti-soft is a bit less than an equivalent infantry unit. That means that Commonwealth formations have mostly puny 252 and 253 Eng units representing their Field and Field Park Coys and some Pioneer units in their operating brigades. No combat engineer Rambos like in US units.

Of course can modify things if someone sends a wake up call.

Sami

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Post #: 10
RE: Aussie Squads? - 1/14/2013 1:48:06 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Royal Engineers were a pain we didnt have different types of engineer when we constructed the OOB I would perhaps have treated them differently now.

The simplifying assumption (and it was a simplifying assumption) because they operated in many different ways

Field Companies RE serving with Bde or higher level units were treated as Combat Engineers
Field Park Companies, Fortress Field Companies and other Field Companies or other independent functions were treated as ord Engineers.

Andy

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RE: Aussie Squads? - 1/14/2013 8:12:49 PM   
Natali

 

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Are you willing to modulate a bit with me on Assault Value v Forts v Other things for engineers? I really want to know. If you want, ask JWE I sort of work for him on this and don't want you to think I'm coming from outer space.

Pretty sure you can get JWE, and you can get me by any of the pm/email buttons.

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RE: Aussie Squads? - 1/18/2013 11:36:54 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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?? whats the question I am a little unclear.

I can tell you the TOE assumed for a Field Coy v a Field Park Coy and how I constructed them but as I said because Royal Engineers were multi function we did make the simplifying assumptions for stock as we didnt have all the different engineer options that were added for da babes

In general a British Div had 2 or 3 Field Coy RE and 1 Field Park Coy RE plus each Inf Bn typically had an engineering platoon in the support company with 2 engineer squads in each one.

So the combat engineers of a standard British Inf Div

would have 3 x Field Coy RE (of 3 or 4 platoons each of 2 or 3 squads depending on the TOE of the Div)

and for a British Inf Div typically of 9 Inf Bns 2 CE Squads per Bn

The only other place that had either Engineers or CEngineers were sometimes the recce regt was converted to a foot borne unit and sometimes had a few combat engineers attached

Indian Divs were slightly different as they ended up with 10 Inf Bns with engineer companies that had slightly different TOE
Andy

(in reply to Natali)
Post #: 13
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