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WITP-Oil&Res Movement

 
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WITP-Oil&Res Movement - 12/17/2012 8:03:11 PM   
LTC SKI

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 12/17/2012
Status: offline 		I'm a verteran wargamer but need some help with WITP resource movement. I've mastered air and naval combat, base building and I even have a good handle on Japanese factory usage and conversion but oil and res movement is driving me crazy. Here are some questions:

1. Mandalay is landllocked. How do you move its oil and res? Is it all moved to Rangoon? Does some follow the rail lines other cites in IndoChina with factories?

2. Hanoi is land locked with factories and res but no oil. If I dump oil into Haiphong will the game move it to Hanoi? Peking is the same; factories needing oil. Will it pull it from Tiensin? If I dump it into Tiensin will it go to Peking or will some go to Changsa, etc?

3. I see that early in the game a fair amount of O&R accumulates in Kagoshima which has no factories whatever. I assume that all of this is avail for distribution. True? Other sites are similar.

4. Hong Kong has factories and res but no oil. I assume that the Jap. player should leave the res there to spt Hongkong's factories.
Move res only when you have a massive surplus and critical needs elsewhere. Same for Saigon, etc. True?

5. Sites like Miri and Palembang have no factories. I assume that these are your primary resource sites and you move as much as you can as quickly as possible. True?

6. Does the program auto move O&R between all Home Island cities? If so, among all cities or by major island.? In other words can the japanese player dump O&R in one location (e.g Osaka) or must you dump into a city on each on the 4 major islands? Surely one does not have to move overseas O&R to EACH Home Islands city with factories. If it moves O&R among home Island cities, can the player influence movement and delivery in times of shortage? Shutting down factories helps with this.

7. Numerous sites in Manchuria have oil. Will the program send oil and res to Korean sites as well as manchurian? Does surplus Manchurian O&R go to one port (e.g. Inchon) or other ports as well? Surely it will not dump O&R into a port and short Harbin, etc.

I could go on and on. I am mystified that for a veteran game like this none of this is covered in the manual but we have page after page of material explaining what the factory symbols mean and the corresponding numbers. Most is self-evident Efficient movement of O&R is critical for Japanese success. Perhaps the most critical. A war ministry and or General Staff would micromanage it and so should the player.Sorry to be verbose. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the spelling. Regards.

Mike Nizinski
LTC, USA (ReT)

PS. Yes, I tried WITP-AE. Way too complex; the AI just can't handle it. Becomes laughable.



Post #: 1
RE: WITP-Oil&Res Movement - 12/17/2012 11:24:27 PM   
BPRE

 

Posts: 578
Joined: 10/16/2000
From: Stockholm,Sweden
Status: online 		Hi,

1. Don't worry. I think that all or most go to Rangoon but in my present game I can say that at least the Resources from both (or actually all sources in Burma) disappears somewhere else which most likely means Indochina (game engine seems to like to store it in Camranh Bay). Oil increases in Rangoon so I have to pick it up but that could be because I have enough elsewhere that is drawn first of all.

2. Yes it will. In fact it might move it all somewhere else also (like Camranh Bay) but Hanoi is supplied from other sites when needed and if it's in connection and there is Oil.

In my present game Tientsin is definitely supplying Chengting and Peking if they don't pull it directly from Manchuria which happened at first when there was plenty of surplus in Manchuria.
I have plenty of Oil in Shanghai and Changsha is supplied from there at the moment.

3. Should be. I've noticed that quite a bit is moved around Japan and even if you don't see it shrinking it could be because the engine prefers to grab from somewhere else at first (as was the case with Peking above).

4. There's not enough Res in Hong Kong and Canton to supply Hong Kong normally (depends on damage of course) so you would have to ship in now and then.

Saigon is different. First of all you should normally have a link at least between Bangkok-Saigon-Camranh Bay-Hanoi-Haiphong (I've seen the engine move surplus Res to Haiphong sometimes) so you should take them all into consideration.
Secondly you have 300 Res in Saigon producing 375/day and without expanding the factories you will only need 30+10(Manpower)/day. Normally you can pull as much as possible out of there but you have to take the other locations into consideration too.

5. Manpower requires resources and Miri does not have enough on it's own so you really need to ship resources into Miri and Brunei.

6. Toyohara on Sakhalin needs O&R shipped in. I used to ship Res out of Sapporo but I believe it will move on it's own if needed. Haven't verified though. In other words keep an eye on Hokkaido to be safe. Otherwise I haven't seen any need to move.
On the other hand you can't really influence. If you have a shortage shutting down users would of course help but I suspect it's difficult to have any type of control.

7. It will supply Korea and China too (at least the Peking area). I can definitely say that Resources are moved to ports and different ones also. In fact it may move around so that one day Pusan has received 7000 reosurces and the next day part of it has gone somewhere else.
As for Oil you have a deficit at start in Manchuria and Korea of 40 Oil/day so don't bother to pull it out.

I can't help micro-managing the game (think I'm a control freak) so that's why I have a fairly good picture of the movement and the needs and surpluses. Use a couple of spreadsheets to get an overview but I think that the Tracker tool gives you a lot of help if you want.

As for the AI I can mention that just for fun I've looked at AI vs AI into '44 and the O&R management breaks down completely when you let it run that far. All the Oil fields are overfull with Oil and no Tankers moving (might not be that many left but they're used elsewhere).

Something important to keep in mind is that there's a limit to how much Oil and Res that can be stored in the production sites. It's 100 days worth of production for that site. In the Philippines Res usually ends up in Manila. I believe it's because of the size of the port. It won't store more than just over 20000 Res for some reason. Maybe it's manpower usage times 1000 (yes Manila has 1 manpower as Allied but something I just recently realised is that when sites like that are occupied by the Japanese they get one extra that is damaged).

There are some things that don't work great but it's a wonderful game. Occupies too much time is probably the main drawback :-)

Good luck
BPRE


(in reply to LTC SKI)
Post #: 2
RE: WITP-Oil&Res Movement - 12/18/2012 3:23:18 PM   
turkey


Posts: 69
Joined: 3/1/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Mike. In general oil and resource will move by road and rail, just like supply, as long as it is possible to trace a valid supply path. You will need to ship oil and resource to the home islands from primary production centres. In my game I also keep an eye on Korea, HK, and SE Asia and as required ship oil to Haiphong, Saigon, Bangkok and Singapore and in Korea / China to Tientsin and Luda/Pyongyang.
SE Asia and Manchuria/China is a net producer of resources so I ship these out of Bangkok, Saigon and from wherever the surplus stock builds up in the Korean peninsula to home islands.
Within the home islands (excepting Hokkaido and Toyohara on Sakhalin which I keep supplied by convoy) oil and resource generally seems to move itself satisfactorily by road and rail, though I have shipped both oil and resource to Shikoku on occasion when local stocks get low. According to the manual (8.3) O&R will move between two adjacent base hexes even if they are separated by an ocean hex side so it should be possible for the O&R to get to Shikoku (and for that matter to Hokkaido) under its own steam but my experience is that this is not always the case.
My SOP is to unload O&R convoys as near to where it is needed as possible to minimise any losses in road and rail trans-shipment.
You will also need to keep Formosa and supplied with O&R by ship.


_____________________________

Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more.
George S. Patton

(in reply to LTC SKI)
Post #: 3
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