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Where are the Pioniere battalions?

 
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Where are the Pioniere battalions? - 12/17/2012 6:43:30 PM   
Kelblau


Posts: 81
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		I understand that, in order to avoid clutter, some simplification have been to the OOB (I am talking about the German OOB, in the Case Blue campaign).

On June 28th 1942 were present in the geographic area covered by the game:

+ 7 panzerjäger battalions (#521, 525, 559, 560, 611, 654 and 670) with 15 Marder each. In the game there are 3 of them with 25 Marder each. I understand the regroupings. In the process, the figures have slightly gone down from 105 marders to 75.

+ 11 StuG battalions with 15 vehicles each while in the game there are 6 "battalions" of 25 for a minimal difference of 15 vehicles (165 vs 150).

+ If we consider the Construction battalions, the game proposes 11 engineers "battalions" of 1700 men each. The historical figure is 60 battalions of 300 men, with a slight difference of 700 men (18700 vs 18000). In game terms, their use is blowing and repairing bridges.

+ Now when we come to the combat engineers, there were 29 independent assault engineer battalions (various designations including 'sturmpionier-battaillon'). These 8700 trained and well-equipped men played a key role in the campaign. I do not see them in the game.

It seems to me that adding something like 14 additional pioniere counters (to stay coherent with the scale this game deals with smaller units) would be a good idea. An alternative would be to add an assault component of 300 men to 29 german divisions.

Or did I miss something?

< Message edited by Kelblau -- 12/17/2012 8:04:30 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Where are the Pioniere battalions? - 12/17/2012 9:50:13 PM   
wallas

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 2/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kelblau

These 8700 trained and well-equipped men played a key role in the campaign. I do not see them in the game.



In game terms they helped take one hex and made up less then 5% of the infantry in stalingrad. If it please's you think of the nebelwerfers units as shock troops since they take an investment of PP to replace. If detail is what your after maybe another game would better suit you. My opinion only and I only enjoy playing the game, and not an official representative of the game developer

< Message edited by wallas -- 12/17/2012 9:52:07 PM >

(in reply to Kelblau)
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RE: Where are the Pioniere battalions? - 12/18/2012 5:38:18 AM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline

Actually, that might not be a bad plan...make the pioneers a card replacement only, and have a unit to build for them. And have them expended, like the nebelwerfers. But they can help take a hex or two of Stalingrad (or some other Russian city).

Although, in history, their use (and effect) is rather minimal when you look at the grand scheme of things...they were brought in to Stalingrad in early November, and used to take what would amount to one hex over a few turns.

The Pioneer battalions were around 300-400 men. The game represents regimental sized counters. Since (mostly) a regiment has 3 battalions, you could make them 18 strength (1800) counters. After a combat they can 'disappear' like the nebelwerfers, but will return, if you play the political points to 'use' them again.

What I wouldn't want to see is 3-4 pioneer counters that stay on the map, running about taking every city then can reach.

As for the Jagpanzer units (and stugs for that matter) you can build them and play the cards for replacements already. Not sure if you will appreciate the effort, though.

_____________________________

To the right General Patton, to the left the British Army, to the rear our own artillery, and besides all that its raining. And the only good thing to say about the weather: it keeps our air corps from blowing us all to Hell because its too lousy to fly.

(in reply to wallas)
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RE: Where are the Pioniere battalions? - 12/18/2012 6:44:39 PM   
Kelblau


Posts: 81
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		29 battalions of first line german combat units are not represented in the game OOB.

My opinion may be a bit basic : they were present in the campaign - they should be present in the game.

There are solutions. To take another example as far as small units are concerned : the single 6 pieces battery of Karl Gerat siege guns is not represented by one but by three (!) counters in the game (the heavy artillery "groups" that regroup 1 Karl and 25 210mm mortars). So, obviously, some meticulosity is possible.

With more time and modding qualifications, I would gladly make a mod to find a way to correct some of these small discrepancies. Since I can't for the moment, I just ask for a fix in our forum. I should probably ask this question in the modding section.

Anyway...Thank you for your attention.

< Message edited by Kelblau -- 12/18/2012 6:56:05 PM >

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 4
RE: Where are the Pioniere battalions? - 12/18/2012 10:51:48 PM   
The Red Baron


Posts: 109
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: Adirondack Mtns, NY
Status: offline 		I like the idea of including them in a German infantry division's OOB. Give them a higher attack point rating when attacking into a hex and provide them with the capability to lower entrenchment values more than standard infantry. They should also receive a lower hitpoint rating, resulting in more casualties, to reflect the extra risk to which they were exposed. Replacements could trickle into OKH or be bought with Replacement Troop cards.

(in reply to Kelblau)
Post #: 5
RE: Where are the Pioniere battalions? - 12/19/2012 4:07:46 PM   
redmarkus4


Posts: 3918
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		I would suggest that this is better addressed as an OOB fix by the developer rather than a Mod. If you make it a mod then it won't appear in later releases or other modded campaigns based on Vanilla. Put it in the Technical forum IMO.

_____________________________

Managers read statistics and tune processes. Leaders interpret statistics and determine strategy.

(in reply to The Red Baron)
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