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RE: Seriously, N1K5-J George in Oct, 43?

 
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RE: Seriously, N1K5-J George in Oct, 43? - 12/18/2012 8:19:05 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4374
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Guys, I'm talking about N1K5-J George, not some other planes. You really should test and see how powerful this particular plane is.

At 30,000 ft it beats P47D25 with advantage of 100:160. For those who don't believe it's game changer, just imagine you have a long range Shinden in 10/43. And why is N1K5-J George so powerful? I don't have an answer.



Only if your pilot skill diverges.

Performance wise the planes are roughly equal, with the Thud D23 holding the distinct advantage at high alt and a slight advantage at lower alt.

Thud got better top speed, better firepower, better durability, and better ceiling. George N1K5-J has better mvr at low alt (as nearly all Japanese fighters), and slightly better climb.
The attributes of the George get ruined by its service rating of 3 though, while the Thud has 1.


quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477
2. Economic Mod.(I've done this with my game with Floyd)
- Add months to F & FB (as well as others) plane arrival date. . One month for each year (see above).
- no more than 1 upgrade to next model per model. So, A6M3 -> 3a but not A6M5.
- Advanced Engines moved months down.
- Changing engines for advanced models so they are not using typical engines.
- Engine costs increased for building. (later models only) Pity we can't do this for planes too! Or get to the economic multipliers for these things!
- Less R&D plants available.
- All R&D plants start at 0(0)
- Less non-R&D plants (so you need to allow R&D to become production)
- Overall making the player research even late '42 planes to get them on time.
Misc.
-Reducing supply and HI production (while maintaining or increasing resource multiplier needs).
- Still testing a principle of prototyping (no arms) for my Options88 mod - which then can be used to further R&D on a real model / optioned models.


Besides that I am with you an Puhis when it comes down to that the bonus should be either removed or reduced by an order of magnitude,
this is a sensational modding solution! Well thought through. Thanks for posting!

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to hades1001)
Post #: 31
RE: Seriously, N1K5-J George in Oct, 43? - 12/18/2012 1:14:10 PM   
bigred


Posts: 2829
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The R&D model is too easy for most of us that know how to manipulate it. I don't advocate change, I am just suggesting what could be done.


The IJ air production is a magnificent part of the game. Fun and joyful as japan player to use on your unrelenting allied opponent and gives you as the jap hope and interest in the future (which may be very bleak).

If a more experienced IJ player suspects he is imbalancing his game then he should regulate himself!!!

My 2 cents

_____________________________

---bigred---

IJ Production mistakes--
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2597400

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 32
RE: Seriously, N1K5-J George in Oct, 43? - 12/18/2012 1:56:48 PM   
Puhis

 

Posts: 1687
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
I regulate myself playing PDU off. No matter how early I get certain plane models, there's only limited number of units that can use them...

In Oscar IJA trust!!!

(in reply to bigred)
Post #: 33
RE: Seriously, N1K5-J George in Oct, 43? - 12/19/2012 3:04:40 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5459
Joined: 6/6/2008
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Really, as GJ and a couple of others have already opined: there is no IJ fighter wunderkind.  Each one of the late war fighters has a serious defect compared to the allies Spit/TBolt/Stang lineup which really have nothing other than mediocre armaments (not bad, but not that strong).

George is too slow.  I mean like 80 kn against the Stang. 
Shinden/Karyu uses those 30mm, which are almost, but not quite useless.  Ergo, it is really undergunned.  and low manouver compared to the allied planes.
Frank is noticeably slower, but still competitive.  Ditto Sam.
Ki-83 - 2E fighter ... $$$$ and low manouver
etc.

There is a flaw with each model, and I haven't even mentioned SR.  Now as IJ player you learn to mitigate those defects to the best possible point, but they are still there.  An allied player, even my opponent (AI Andy) can easily take advantage of these differences if I do not watch them carefully.

Finally, what is the commotion about the N1K5? ... it is a very minor upgrade over the N1K1 ... 17 kn faster to 380 ... very minor changes in other aspects.  It is in no way a world beater.  Why would you invest the majority of your R&D on this plane?  And relatively few groups can use it ... only non CV fighters.  You get much bigger bang for your buck by investing in an IJA fighter ... Frank for example.  Can be used in like 4x the number of groups.

Anyway, just my ramblings from an IJ player POV.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 34
RE: Seriously, N1K5-J George in Oct, 43? - 12/19/2012 7:17:54 AM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1913
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
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quote:


Finally, what is the commotion about the N1K5? ... it is a very minor upgrade over the N1K1 ... 17 kn faster to 380 ... very minor changes in other aspects. It is in no way a world beater. Why would you invest the majority of your R&D on this plane?


Agree.

I don't even build the N1K5. The extra 17 knots (and a couple extra machine guns) don't seem to justify the increase in SR.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 35
RE: Seriously, N1K5-J George in Oct, 43? - 12/19/2012 7:48:47 AM   
Puhis

 

Posts: 1687
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
I think center line MGs can make a difference. If we think about firepower, there is no better Japanese fighter than N1K5.

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 36
RE: Seriously, N1K5-J George in Oct, 43? - 12/19/2012 7:54:13 AM   
koniu

 

Posts: 1940
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

quote:


Finally, what is the commotion about the N1K5? ... it is a very minor upgrade over the N1K1 ... 17 kn faster to 380 ... very minor changes in other aspects. It is in no way a world beater. Why would you invest the majority of your R&D on this plane?


Agree.

I don't even build the N1K5. The extra 17 knots (and a couple extra machine guns) don't seem to justify the increase in SR.


N1K2 is version that should be accelerated. Decent speed, good firepower and SR 2
K5 of better fighter but i will see it mostly flaying in Japan defending Home Island against B-29 in secon half on `44. You can have there many big AF with huge AV support
In DEI, Burma or Pacific K2 is better because You have there smaller AF mostly without enugh AV support and You need planes in air and not grounded because of maintenance

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 37
RE: Seriously, N1K5-J George in Oct, 43? - 12/19/2012 8:26:18 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 5720
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Really, as GJ and a couple of others have already opined: there is no IJ fighter wunderkind.  Each one of the late war fighters has a serious defect compared to the allies Spit/TBolt/Stang lineup which really have nothing other than mediocre armaments (not bad, but not that strong).

George is too slow.  I mean like 80 kn against the Stang. 
Shinden/Karyu uses those 30mm, which are almost, but not quite useless.  Ergo, it is really undergunned.  and low manouver compared to the allied planes.
Frank is noticeably slower, but still competitive.  Ditto Sam.
Ki-83 - 2E fighter ... $$$$ and low manouver
etc.

There is a flaw with each model, and I haven't even mentioned SR.  Now as IJ player you learn to mitigate those defects to the best possible point, but they are still there.  An allied player, even my opponent (AI Andy) can easily take advantage of these differences if I do not watch them carefully.

Finally, what is the commotion about the N1K5? ... it is a very minor upgrade over the N1K1 ... 17 kn faster to 380 ... very minor changes in other aspects.  It is in no way a world beater.  Why would you invest the majority of your R&D on this plane?  And relatively few groups can use it ... only non CV fighters.  You get much bigger bang for your buck by investing in an IJA fighter ... Frank for example.  Can be used in like 4x the number of groups.

Anyway, just my ramblings from an IJ player POV.



+1


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 38
RE: Seriously, N1K5-J George in Oct, 43? - 12/19/2012 10:46:49 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5459
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I think center line MGs can make a difference. If we think about firepower, there is no better Japanese fighter than N1K5.

Oh I agree on both points (CL is much better and George has great firepower), but still, this is far from a world beater design. Now, this design with 420 kn speed? Sure, then it is a pretty strong contender. But those additional 40 kn are a BIG deal. Make this a 450kn fighter and yeah, you got something, even with SR3, that is a real problem for the allies. But at 380kn ... not so much. I mean it can just barely catch a B29 at 364kn, right? That low speed makes it very vulnerable to allied fighters. Again, as a player you can mitigate that. But then the allies can accentuate this defect also ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 39
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