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RE: Strange behaviors; fast transport fiasco

 
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RE: Strange behaviors; fast transport fiasco - 12/18/2012 8:11:20 PM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Don't get me wrong Obvert, 12 DP guns in your example is entirely different from a complete load of troops on an FT, so in your situation it is a grey area.

Relistically a loaded FT TF is at deciding disadvantage when engaging an SAG. There is a lot more flammable equipment
on board increasing the risk of critical damage and fire, the additional troops make general quarters rig less effective, much slower and more difficult
to achieve - if at all possible depending on the loadout - and the added displacement and weight, combined with the danger of moving equipment makes
combat maneuvres more dangerous and sluggish.

WiTP simulates this partly by putting FT TF types at disadvantage to surface combat mission types in an engagement. Changing the mission to SAG
completely eliminates these disadvantages (except for the chance of loaded equipment getting damaged/destroyed when hit).

So in general, more so because WitP does not distinguish between different loadouts, in a PBEM I would consider changing a loaded FT TF
to surface combat as gamey and I would refrain from doing so. Obviousely thats just my personal opinion.


If the fast transport routine allowed the ships to stay and fight, and keep going to their target, I wouldn't need to change the TF type. I would take a slight reduction in combat ability in order to get there more quickly. Also, I would like the option to still hit weaker targets, like the convoy in the OP landing troops. If I can't do that stuff the game really suffers and moves into an abstract non-plausible territory very quickly. The IJN would have probably thrown the stuff overboard to hit two divisions on transports unloading at their base.


You got a point there.

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S**t happens in war.

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Post #: 31
RE: Strange behaviors; fast transport fiasco - 12/18/2012 8:29:24 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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I came to this one a little late. When you switched from FT to SAG did you simply toggle the mission type, or create a new TF and assign surface combat as the mission? I wonder if creating a new TF would prevent any lingering residue from the original FT mission settings? I have no idea on whether that would work or if the option to create a surface combat TF is available from ships already loaded with troops. Just an idea.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

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Post #: 32
RE: Strange behaviors; fast transport fiasco - 12/18/2012 11:02:54 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I came to this one a little late. When you switched from FT to SAG did you simply toggle the mission type, or create a new TF and assign surface combat as the mission? I wonder if creating a new TF would prevent any lingering residue from the original FT mission settings? I have no idea on whether that would work or if the option to create a surface combat TF is available from ships already loaded with troops. Just an idea.


Good thought. I'll try that one when I do some tests. Thursday things slow down and I have a 12 hour flight! I am going to invest in another battery and do some testing en route to OZ.

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Post #: 33
RE: Strange behaviors; fast transport fiasco - 12/22/2012 5:15:57 AM   
BBfanboy


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A historical benchmark might be of interest: at Tassafaronga, Tanaka's DDs were unloading supplies etc. [not sure if there were troops too] when the US CAs surprised him. He still managed to stop loading, go from 0 to battle speed, and unleash a wave of torps that sank one CA and damaged two or three more. He lost only one DD. I would say that proves that Fast Tpt TFs can fight back!

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Post #: 34
RE: Strange behaviors; fast transport fiasco - 12/22/2012 12:20:39 PM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

A historical benchmark might be of interest: at Tassafaronga, Tanaka's DDs were unloading supplies etc. [not sure if there were troops too] when the US CAs surprised him. He still managed to stop loading, go from 0 to battle speed, and unleash a wave of torps that sank one CA and damaged two or three more. He lost only one DD. I would say that proves that Fast Tpt TFs can fight back!


Usually I agree with your knowledgable comments BBfanboy, but this is not a good example.

Saburo Sakai when based at Iwo Jima, after previousely losing his eyesight on one eye at Guadalcanal, flying an old Zeke version, for 20mins fought a pitched battle against 15 Navy Hellcats,
survived to tell the story, and landed his undamaged plane back at base without a scratch.

This does not tell us anything about the performance relation between Zeke and Hellcat or about general survival chances for Japanese pilots in such a situation -
and so nothing about how the game should treat similar situations.
It only tells a story about unbelievable luck against green opponents, demonstrates the exceptional skill of Sakai, and maybe a bit about the maneuverability of the Zeke
in general.

Obviousely FT convoys should have a fighting chance against surface combatants.

But Tassafaronga was influenced by the exceptional performance of Tanaka, several mistakes on the side of Wright, the fact that Tanaka only delivered food supplies -
which usually were simply dropped overboard without waiting for regular unload, a significant portion of luck, and that the Long Lance was a class A weapon - if it hit.

Taking it as an example of how a troop/ammo loaded FT TF should perform against a genuine SAG is simply wrong.

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 35
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