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Coastal Defense

 
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Coastal Defense - 12/14/2012 5:55:21 AM   
abulbulian


Posts: 699
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		I have two questions about coastal defense.

- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
- what do combat ships do in a port when it is attacked by a bombardment attack?

Thanks

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RE: Costal Defense - 12/14/2012 6:31:00 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 979
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		1) not entirely sure about attacks vs. BombTFs, but i think that art-devices will shoot back to resist the attack. non-CD LCUs will definitely shoot at an AmphTF unloading into its hex. artillery devices will engage the ships, infantry devices will shoot at the approaching 'landing craft'.

2) ships disbanded in port are naked to a BombTF, they won't shoot back, they are just targets. but if you've got a SurfTF in your port, it might attempt to engage the enemy BombTF & might knock it back. it might engage the BombTF before it executes its Bomb mission, forcing it to use ammo and ops points & degrading its Bomb effectiveness. or it might engage the BombTF after its mission, & run in to attack when the BombTF has used up its ammo.

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 2
RE: Costal Defense - 12/14/2012 7:16:06 AM   
jzardos


Posts: 219
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline 		Ok, so if an enemy port is showing 900 guns, I probably should not try and bombard it even if I have a strong force?

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Post #: 3
RE: Costal Defense - 12/14/2012 7:58:42 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 346
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Lima and Toronto
Status: offline 		It all depends on the size of the guns vs the size of your armour

BBs are mostly immune to 6'' artillery

Also, all "major caliber" costal guns are "static" and located in important ports; the likes of Singapore, Manila (Bataan), etc. Trying to do naval bombardment there is not advisable


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Post #: 4
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/14/2012 8:19:15 AM   
Puhis


Posts: 1627
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

I have two questions about coastal defense.

- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?



Yes. But regular arty won't hit anything, at least not against bombarding ships.

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Post #: 5
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/14/2012 11:53:43 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 11994
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

I have two questions about coastal defense.

- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
- what do combat ships do in a port when it is attacked by a bombardment attack?

Thanks



1) yes, but the effect is literally nil
2) they do nothing (flak of disbanded ships in port contribute to base defense during air attacks though)

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RE: Costal Defense - 12/14/2012 12:51:52 PM   
btbw

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 11/1/2011
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
Also, all "major caliber" costal guns are "static" and located in important ports; the likes of Singapore, Manila (Bataan), etc. Trying to do naval bombardment there is not advisable

For jap BBs coastal guns in Singapore or Bataan dont problem. Only problem is minefield covering base.

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Post #: 7
RE: Costal Defense - 12/14/2012 3:28:40 PM   
dr.hal


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Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		However regular artillery against a landing force can really chew up the troop ships and AKs.

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Post #: 8
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/14/2012 4:25:13 PM   
jzardos


Posts: 219
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

I have two questions about coastal defense.

- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
- what do combat ships do in a port when it is attacked by a bombardment attack?

Thanks



1) yes, but the effect is literally nil
2) they do nothing (flak of disbanded ships in port contribute to base defense during air attacks though)



I did a little test and regular arty (80 guns) as part of an LCU defending an island actually did ok against CA and DD. So not sure I would say 'nil'. Try a test for yourself. So 900 guns in one place would probably tear up several CAs if in a BB group. Could just not include any CAs I suppose.

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 9
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/14/2012 5:35:58 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 6184
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I just lost about 20 landing type ships in a well supported landing at Baldebob, where they enemy had plenty of artillery and a good CD unit. My landing forces were well supported with rocket LCIs, old BBs and CAs. It was about what I expected. Lots of fireworks and fun to watch.

I really have never seen a bombardment force take more than a few nuisance hits from shore defenses. Like said above, mines and PTs make a better defense.

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Post #: 10
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/14/2012 5:38:41 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 4931
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I just lost about 20 landing type ships in a well supported landing at Baldebob, where they enemy had plenty of artillery and a good CD unit. My landing forces were well supported with rocket LCIs, old BBs and CAs. It was about what I expected. Lots of fireworks and fun to watch.

I really have never seen a bombardment force take more than a few nuisance hits from shore defenses. Like said above, mines and PTs make a better defense.


I landed in Japan against Rader... and he had massed all his artillery there. I got every single ships, BBs included, badly damaged by thousands of calibers firing against me. Think i lost during those landings something like 50 APA/AKA and several DDs ONLY to shore gun fire

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Post #: 11
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/14/2012 9:48:08 PM   
Barb


Posts: 1479
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I just lost about 20 landing type ships in a well supported landing at Baldebob, where they enemy had plenty of artillery and a good CD unit. My landing forces were well supported with rocket LCIs, old BBs and CAs. It was about what I expected. Lots of fireworks and fun to watch.

I really have never seen a bombardment force take more than a few nuisance hits from shore defenses. Like said above, mines and PTs make a better defense.


I landed in Japan against Rader... and he had massed all his artillery there. I got every single ships, BBs included, badly damaged by thousands of calibers firing against me. Think i lost during those landings something like 50 APA/AKA and several DDs ONLY to shore gun fire


Well, then it was probably not the best idea to land on a place your opponent made a strongpoint. Ever heard of indirect approach?

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Post #: 12
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/15/2012 12:47:12 AM   
jzardos


Posts: 219
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline 		How does adjusting the bombard range help? What does it really do?

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Post #: 13
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/15/2012 3:33:44 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 979
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		bombard range affects your TF's vulnerability to return fire and limits what you can shoot.

so if your BBs' big guns can hit at 20,000 yards, set it to 20 & you'll likely be out of range of any return fire (though your own accuracy may suffer)

if you set it to 2,000 you'll shoot off most of the ammo from every gun you have, leaving the TF highly vulnerable to subsequent air or surface attack. so you can set the range to just beyond 40mm, or just beyond 5", to retain ammo for defense.

(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 14
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/15/2012 5:15:13 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 6184
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Yes, if there are decent CD guns there then you want to stand off for your bombardment. A six inch CD gun will tear up a DD or even a CA. But the Japanese player has only a few CD units so the risk is small. Allies get a few more. Basically, I go in with everything I have and shoot off all my ammo at close range. When I bombard, I want to raise a little dust. I got plenty of ammo back home.....

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Post #: 15
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/15/2012 6:31:19 AM   
JeffK


Posts: 4657
Joined: 1/26/2005
From: In a little tin hut in a big tin shed
Status: offline 		Never say never.

I've seen hits from 3.7" AA on attacking transports.

Might not be common, but enough to wreck your day occasionally

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Post #: 16
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/15/2012 1:16:05 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 11994
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

I have two questions about coastal defense.

- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
- what do combat ships do in a port when it is attacked by a bombardment attack?

Thanks



1) yes, but the effect is literally nil
2) they do nothing (flak of disbanded ships in port contribute to base defense during air attacks though)



I did a little test and regular arty (80 guns) as part of an LCU defending an island actually did ok against CA and DD. So not sure I would say 'nil'. Try a test for yourself. So 900 guns in one place would probably tear up several CAs if in a BB group. Could just not include any CAs I suppose.



you would be the first one to see Army guns damaging a heavy cruiser, or whatevery you mean with "doing ok". When I say nil, I am surely a mile closer to what they actually do than if I would say they do "ok" against heavy cruisers. In my ongoing PBEM, my opponent has bombarded the fully supplied Bataan something like a dozen times without his bombardment TFs even taking a scratch and that was against fully ready, heavy coast defense.

A test that shows a combat report that with Army artillery damaging a naval bombardment TF would be something I really would like to see because I'd say: not possible. I have bombarded bases that had 200,000 troops so you can well imagine that my TFs would be whiped out if Army guns would do "ok" against those TFs.

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Post #: 17
RE: Coastal Defense - 12/16/2012 12:34:54 AM   
mike scholl 1

 

Posts: 1173
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

I have two questions about coastal defense.

- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
- what do combat ships do in a port when it is attacked by a bombardment attack?

Thanks



The guns could do it..., but generally lack the fire control systems needed to engage moving naval targets. But marine CD bns. regularly used the same 155mm guns as the Army's Artillery Units. Big differences were the "panama mounts" whichlet the guns be traversed quickly and the naval style fire directions systems which could track and predict locations of moving ships.

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Post #: 18
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