Coastal Defense
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- abulbulian
- Posts: 1101
- Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:42 pm
Coastal Defense
I have two questions about coastal defense.
- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
- what do combat ships do in a port when it is attacked by a bombardment attack?
Thanks
- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
- what do combat ships do in a port when it is attacked by a bombardment attack?
Thanks
- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
RE: Costal Defense
1) not entirely sure about attacks vs. BombTFs, but i think that art-devices will shoot back to resist the attack. non-CD LCUs will definitely shoot at an AmphTF unloading into its hex. artillery devices will engage the ships, infantry devices will shoot at the approaching 'landing craft'.
2) ships disbanded in port are naked to a BombTF, they won't shoot back, they are just targets. but if you've got a SurfTF in your port, it might attempt to engage the enemy BombTF & might knock it back. it might engage the BombTF before it executes its Bomb mission, forcing it to use ammo and ops points & degrading its Bomb effectiveness. or it might engage the BombTF after its mission, & run in to attack when the BombTF has used up its ammo.
2) ships disbanded in port are naked to a BombTF, they won't shoot back, they are just targets. but if you've got a SurfTF in your port, it might attempt to engage the enemy BombTF & might knock it back. it might engage the BombTF before it executes its Bomb mission, forcing it to use ammo and ops points & degrading its Bomb effectiveness. or it might engage the BombTF after its mission, & run in to attack when the BombTF has used up its ammo.
RE: Costal Defense
Ok, so if an enemy port is showing 900 guns, I probably should not try and bombard it even if I have a strong force?
- Jorge_Stanbury
- Posts: 4345
- Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:57 pm
- Location: Montreal
RE: Costal Defense
It all depends on the size of the guns vs the size of your armour
BBs are mostly immune to 6'' artillery
Also, all "major caliber" costal guns are "static" and located in important ports; the likes of Singapore, Manila (Bataan), etc. Trying to do naval bombardment there is not advisable
BBs are mostly immune to 6'' artillery
Also, all "major caliber" costal guns are "static" and located in important ports; the likes of Singapore, Manila (Bataan), etc. Trying to do naval bombardment there is not advisable
RE: Coastal Defense
ORIGINAL: abulbulian
I have two questions about coastal defense.
- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
Yes. But regular arty won't hit anything, at least not against bombarding ships.
- castor troy
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
- Location: Austria
RE: Coastal Defense
ORIGINAL: abulbulian
I have two questions about coastal defense.
- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
- what do combat ships do in a port when it is attacked by a bombardment attack?
Thanks
1) yes, but the effect is literally nil
2) they do nothing (flak of disbanded ships in port contribute to base defense during air attacks though)
RE: Costal Defense
For jap BBs coastal guns in Singapore or Bataan dont problem. Only problem is minefield covering base.ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
Also, all "major caliber" costal guns are "static" and located in important ports; the likes of Singapore, Manila (Bataan), etc. Trying to do naval bombardment there is not advisable
RE: Costal Defense
However regular artillery against a landing force can really chew up the troop ships and AKs.
RE: Coastal Defense
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: abulbulian
I have two questions about coastal defense.
- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
- what do combat ships do in a port when it is attacked by a bombardment attack?
Thanks
1) yes, but the effect is literally nil
2) they do nothing (flak of disbanded ships in port contribute to base defense during air attacks though)
I did a little test and regular arty (80 guns) as part of an LCU defending an island actually did ok against CA and DD. So not sure I would say 'nil'. Try a test for yourself. So 900 guns in one place would probably tear up several CAs if in a BB group. Could just not include any CAs I suppose.
RE: Coastal Defense
I just lost about 20 landing type ships in a well supported landing at Baldebob, where they enemy had plenty of artillery and a good CD unit. My landing forces were well supported with rocket LCIs, old BBs and CAs. It was about what I expected. Lots of fireworks and fun to watch.
I really have never seen a bombardment force take more than a few nuisance hits from shore defenses. Like said above, mines and PTs make a better defense.
I really have never seen a bombardment force take more than a few nuisance hits from shore defenses. Like said above, mines and PTs make a better defense.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
RE: Coastal Defense
ORIGINAL: crsutton
I just lost about 20 landing type ships in a well supported landing at Baldebob, where they enemy had plenty of artillery and a good CD unit. My landing forces were well supported with rocket LCIs, old BBs and CAs. It was about what I expected. Lots of fireworks and fun to watch.
I really have never seen a bombardment force take more than a few nuisance hits from shore defenses. Like said above, mines and PTs make a better defense.
I landed in Japan against Rader... and he had massed all his artillery there. I got every single ships, BBs included, badly damaged by thousands of calibers firing against me. Think i lost during those landings something like 50 APA/AKA and several DDs ONLY to shore gun fire
RE: Coastal Defense
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
ORIGINAL: crsutton
I just lost about 20 landing type ships in a well supported landing at Baldebob, where they enemy had plenty of artillery and a good CD unit. My landing forces were well supported with rocket LCIs, old BBs and CAs. It was about what I expected. Lots of fireworks and fun to watch.
I really have never seen a bombardment force take more than a few nuisance hits from shore defenses. Like said above, mines and PTs make a better defense.
I landed in Japan against Rader... and he had massed all his artillery there. I got every single ships, BBs included, badly damaged by thousands of calibers firing against me. Think i lost during those landings something like 50 APA/AKA and several DDs ONLY to shore gun fire
Well, then it was probably not the best idea to land on a place your opponent made a strongpoint. Ever heard of indirect approach? [;)]
RE: Coastal Defense
How does adjusting the bombard range help? What does it really do?
RE: Coastal Defense
bombard range affects your TF's vulnerability to return fire and limits what you can shoot.
so if your BBs' big guns can hit at 20,000 yards, set it to 20 & you'll likely be out of range of any return fire (though your own accuracy may suffer)
if you set it to 2,000 you'll shoot off most of the ammo from every gun you have, leaving the TF highly vulnerable to subsequent air or surface attack. so you can set the range to just beyond 40mm, or just beyond 5", to retain ammo for defense.
so if your BBs' big guns can hit at 20,000 yards, set it to 20 & you'll likely be out of range of any return fire (though your own accuracy may suffer)
if you set it to 2,000 you'll shoot off most of the ammo from every gun you have, leaving the TF highly vulnerable to subsequent air or surface attack. so you can set the range to just beyond 40mm, or just beyond 5", to retain ammo for defense.
RE: Coastal Defense
Yes, if there are decent CD guns there then you want to stand off for your bombardment. A six inch CD gun will tear up a DD or even a CA. But the Japanese player has only a few CD units so the risk is small. Allies get a few more. Basically, I go in with everything I have and shoot off all my ammo at close range. When I bombard, I want to raise a little dust. I got plenty of ammo back home.....
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
RE: Coastal Defense
Never say never.
I've seen hits from 3.7" AA on attacking transports.
Might not be common, but enough to wreck your day occasionally
I've seen hits from 3.7" AA on attacking transports.
Might not be common, but enough to wreck your day occasionally
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
- castor troy
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
- Location: Austria
RE: Coastal Defense
ORIGINAL: jzardos
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: abulbulian
I have two questions about coastal defense.
- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
- what do combat ships do in a port when it is attacked by a bombardment attack?
Thanks
1) yes, but the effect is literally nil
2) they do nothing (flak of disbanded ships in port contribute to base defense during air attacks though)
I did a little test and regular arty (80 guns) as part of an LCU defending an island actually did ok against CA and DD. So not sure I would say 'nil'. Try a test for yourself. So 900 guns in one place would probably tear up several CAs if in a BB group. Could just not include any CAs I suppose.
you would be the first one to see Army guns damaging a heavy cruiser, or whatevery you mean with "doing ok". When I say nil, I am surely a mile closer to what they actually do than if I would say they do "ok" against heavy cruisers. In my ongoing PBEM, my opponent has bombarded the fully supplied Bataan something like a dozen times without his bombardment TFs even taking a scratch and that was against fully ready, heavy coast defense.
A test that shows a combat report that with Army artillery damaging a naval bombardment TF would be something I really would like to see because I'd say: not possible. I have bombarded bases that had 200,000 troops so you can well imagine that my TFs would be whiped out if Army guns would do "ok" against those TFs.
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- Posts: 1265
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:20 pm
RE: Coastal Defense
ORIGINAL: abulbulian
I have two questions about coastal defense.
- Can arty in regular units (no CD) be used against ships that bombard a port (or TRs that amphibious assault)?
- what do combat ships do in a port when it is attacked by a bombardment attack?
Thanks
The guns could do it..., but generally lack the fire control systems needed to engage moving naval targets. But marine CD bns. regularly used the same 155mm guns as the Army's Artillery Units. Big differences were the "panama mounts" whichlet the guns be traversed quickly and the naval style fire directions systems which could track and predict locations of moving ships.
RE: Coastal Defense
1) Do AA units shoot at ships as well, or is it only armor, infantry,artillery and CDs units that can shoot at ships? Mnay AA guns have better anti-armor values than army guns.
2) Is there any treshold for guns firing, such as the one for land bombardments by LCUs (range 3, anti-soft 5)? Do tranports unload at range 0 or 1? Are transports "hard"targets? If army guns shoot at transports do they use their anti-armor aor anti-soft rating?
Thanks
2) Is there any treshold for guns firing, such as the one for land bombardments by LCUs (range 3, anti-soft 5)? Do tranports unload at range 0 or 1? Are transports "hard"targets? If army guns shoot at transports do they use their anti-armor aor anti-soft rating?
Thanks
RE: Coastal Defense
1. I often see how AA guns make hits to unloading ships.
Invasion Support action off Kuantan (51,79)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force
22 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
xAK Hokko Maru
xAK Zinzan Maru
xAK Kinkasan Maru
APD Aoi, Shell hits 4
xAK Hokko Maru fired at enemy troops
xAK Zinzan Maru fired at enemy troops
xAK Kinkasan Maru fired at enemy troops
40mm Bofors AA Gun 42 battery firing at APD Aoi
Invasion Support action off Mersing (51,82)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force
14 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
AK Tosan Maru, Shell hits 1
DD Shirakumo
3"/20cwt AA Gun battery firing at AK Tosan Maru
2. Guns use penetration and effect rate.
Invasion Support action off Kuantan (51,79)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force
22 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
xAK Hokko Maru
xAK Zinzan Maru
xAK Kinkasan Maru
APD Aoi, Shell hits 4
xAK Hokko Maru fired at enemy troops
xAK Zinzan Maru fired at enemy troops
xAK Kinkasan Maru fired at enemy troops
40mm Bofors AA Gun 42 battery firing at APD Aoi
Invasion Support action off Mersing (51,82)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force
14 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
AK Tosan Maru, Shell hits 1
DD Shirakumo
3"/20cwt AA Gun battery firing at AK Tosan Maru
2. Guns use penetration and effect rate.