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WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available

 
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WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/12/2012 4:14:56 PM   
Andrew Loveridge


Posts: 489
Joined: 7/20/2009
Status: offline 		Hello all,

We have a new update in the Members Club. It is a beta of v1.06.22, and has a large number of changes and new features, including a long list of data/scenario updates.
Please let us know how it works for you. It does include previous changes and some for Don to the Danube scenarios, and will install those if you have added the expansion.

V1. 06. 22 – November 29, 2012

  • New Features and Rule Changes

      1. New Rule – Air transport missions may only be flown by air groups that are located on airbases within 5 MPs of a supply source (rail net).
      2. New Rule – Factories that are moved may not be moved again for twenty turns. The turn when it will be able to move again is shown on the city display when in rail transfer mode.
      3. New Rule – Heavy Tank Brigades may not be used to form Soviet Corps.
      4. Changes to Production Formulas

        a) Axis factories no longer rise to their buildlimit on the turn they become active.
        b) Factories with a size of 0 that have an expansion rate greater than 0 will no longer receive damage of 1 when they reach their availability date.
        c) Factories that are set to values larger than their build limit will be set to their build limit during the next production cycle.

      5. Changes to Equipment Scrapping, Swapping and Upgrading Formulas

        a) Scrapping of ground equipment now begins exactly 12 months after the last month/year availability date, instead of at the start of the next calendar year after the last year of availability.
        b) AFVs are no longer scrapped if they are being used by any units in the game.
        c) Ground elements below 10 in the pool can be scrapped at a rate of 1 per turn so the pool will eventually be emptied.
        d) Modified ground element and aircraft swapping to give priority to newer equipment.
        e) Increased the chance to swap aircraft. Depleted groups still have a higher chance to swap.
        f) Captured equipment will no longer upgrade to other captured equipment using the upgrade routines. They may swap out the captured equipment for other captured or normal equipment.

      6. Changes to Combat Formulas

        a) Reduced the fire of artillery elements during bombardment (2-hex) combat (primarily reduced the fire of defending artillery).
        b) Defensive fire will be reduced to conserve ammunition if the attacker is relatively very small (roughly less than half the size of the defender).
        c) If an artillery element is firing with its non-main gun devices only, 1/10 of the standard ammunition is used.
        d) Removed very large ammo usage spikes by artillery ground elements in battle.

      7. New Feature – Added event log messages when air groups withdraw.
      8. Code Optimization – Optimized support unit assignment interface code.

  • Bug Fixes

      1. Fixed a bug where air groups that flew missions to the same hex that their airbase was located in were not being charged miles flown. Now a nominal amount of miles flown is charged to the air group. This will prevent heavy bombers from being able to fly repeated air transport missions in the same turn when flying to their same hex.
      2. Fixed a bug that was preventing support units from receiving supplies when attached to units involved in a HQ buildup. This bug was causing the support units to lose morale and gain fatigue.
      3. Fixed a bug that was causing partisan units to erroneously lose morale.
      4. Fixed a bug in the editor where clicking on a location ID performed an unintended delete of the location.
      5. Fixed a bug that was causing mountain units to pay 4 MP’s when moving through a mountain pass instead of the intended 3 MPs (since mountain units pay 3 MPs for any mountain hex).
      6. Fixed a bug that made changing the HQ attachment of a broken down Soviet corps cost less APs than it should have. As of version 1. 05. 53 it should have followed these rules: When a broken down unit from a Soviet Corps of any kind changes its HQ attachment, all broken down units that are a part of that Corps will also change their HQ attachment. The cost for this change in HQ will be equal to the cost of changing the Corps.
      7. Fixed a bug where an artillery unit attacking across an impassable river hexside could end up with negative movement points.
      8. Fixed a bug that prevented the Soviet player from building new regular Mortar Brigades and Tank Brigades at times during 1944/45.
      9. Fixed a bug in the AI where it could warp a unit into an overstack situation inside a pocket.
      10. Fixed a bug where the game could freeze when all Soviet supply centers were captured. The game will now end if all supply centers of one side are captured.
      11. Fixed two bugs with partisan units. In the first bug the partisan unit could end up with MPs, in the second it could end up stacked with an enemy unit.
      12. Fixed a bug that prevented support units from getting ground element upgrades.
      13. Fixed a bug preventing units attached to a city from upgrading/swapping ground elements.
      14. Fixed a bug preventing artillery support units directly attached to a unit defending in a bombardment combat from being able to commit to the battle.

  • Data and Scenario Changes

    An update was made to the campaign scenario files and OB and Device data files. Going along with this data update, several programming changes were made to improve production. The logic behind the changes and the changes themselves are detailed below.
    Developer’s Notes by Jim Wirth: The primary focus of this data update was to correct Axis production for errors and omissions resulting from scenario changes and developments introduced after production was originally setup as well as from missing or erroneous data. In addition a few changes were made to some of the German armor ratings not resulting from new information but rather due to either applying a more consistent methodology to calculating the values or incorporating data previously ignored, such as the pre-Barbarossa armor upgrade of the Panzer IIc. In some cases to get game production as close to historical as possible Production Start and End Dates were shifted a month or two in either direction. Finally to compensate as much as possible for the effect of using the production period for the service life when determining if a particular ground element (primarily AFVs) is subject to scrapping, the Production End Date was extended to the first month of a subsequent year. For example, the Panzer Ib which actually went out of production in June, 1937 has a Production End Date of January, 1941. Panzer Ibs will now not start being scrapped until 1942. Unfortunately this work-a-round can only be used for elements either not in production before June, 1941 or which upgrade in the course of the game. The one area of Axis production which was not changed was factory locations. It was the decision of the design and development team to defer those changes to subsequent games in the series.
    Detailed changes to the Axis AFVs are as follows:

      1. Panzer Ib (0001) – Production End Date changed from 6/37 to 1/41.
      2. Panzer IIc (0002) – Frontal Armor increased by 15 (Note: All Panzer IIcs had additional armor added prior to Barbarossa); Production End Date changed from 4/40 to 1/42.
      3. Panzer IIf (0003) – Initial Factory Size decreased by 2; Build Limit decreased by 2. Production End Date changed from 12/42 to 2/43.
      4. Panzer IIL (0004) – Build Limit reduced by 1.
      5. Flammpanzer II (0005) – Production End Date changed from 3/42 to 1/42.
      6. Panzer IIIe (0006) – Production End Date changed from 7/40 to 1/41.
      7. Panzer IIIj L/60 (0009) – Build Limit increased by 2.
      8. Panzer IIIm (0010) – Build Limit decreased by 1.
      9. Panzer IIIn (0011) – Build Limit decreased by 1.
      10. Flammpanzer III (0012) – Build Limit increased by 10.
      11. Panzer 35(t) (0013) – Production End Date changed from 12/38 to 1/41.
      12. Panzer 38(t) (0014) – Production End Date changed from 10/40 to 1/41.
      13. Panzer 38(t)E (0015) – Side Armor decreased by 4; Build Limit increased by 4; Expansion Rate increased by 1.
      14. Panzer IVg L/43 (0020) – Build Limit decreased by 1.
      15. Panzer IVh (0021) – Production End Date changed from 6/44 to 1/45; Expansion Rate decreased by 1.
      16. Panther A (0023) – Production End Date changed from 4/44 to 1/45. Expansion Rated decreased by 2.
      17. Panther G (0024) – Build Limit decreased by 2
      18. Tiger (0025) – Production Start Date changed from 7/42 to 8/42; Production End Date changed from 12/44 to 8/44; Build Limit increased by 1.
      19. King Tiger (0026) – Frontal Armor increased by 5; Production Start Date changed from 1/44 to 2/44.
      20. Brummbar (0027) – Name changed to Sturmpanzer IV; Reliability Rating changed from 25 to 30.
      21. Stug IIIb (0028) – Build Limit decreased by 2.
      22. StuH42 (0029) – Production Start Date changed from 10/42 to 12/42; Production End Date changed from 2/45 to 9/45. (Note: Rate of production based on historical.)
      23. Stug IIIf (0030) – Frontal Armor decreased by 23; Production End Date changed from 11/42 to 5/42; Build Limit decreased by 4. (Note: See Note to Stug IIIg.)
      24. Stug IIIg (0031) – Bow (actually coaxial) Machinegun removed; Frontal Armor increased by 7; Production Start Date changed from 12/42 to 6/42; Ammo Use decreased by 18; Build Cost deceased by 2; Build Limit decreased by 2; Expansion Rate increased by 1. (Note: Historically half the Stug IIIfs did not received an armor upgrade and all of these were armed with the 75mm L/43 gun. The remainder of Stug IIIfs and all Stug IIIf/8s had the additional armor and 31 of the Stug IIIfs and all of the Stug IIIf/8s had the 75mm L/48 gun. Previously in the game the Stug IIIfs and the Stug IIIf/8s were combined and all had the additional armor and the 75mm L/43 gun. Historically only some (amount unknown) late production Stug IIIgs had the coaxial machinegun, the only feature that in game terms distinguished them from the Stug IIIfs/f8s with additional armor and the 75mm L/48 gun. By removing the coaxial machinegun from the Stug IIIg its production could be combined with that of the late model Stug IIIf and Stug IIIf/8 resulting in game production within 2% of historical.)
      25. Jagdpanzer IV (0032) – Frontal Armor increased by 11; Side Armor increased by 2; Top Armor Increased by 4; Build Limit increased by 3; Production End Date changed from 9/44 to 1/45.
      26. Marder II (SdKfz-132) (0034) – Production End Date changed from 6/43 to 9/43; Build Limit decreased by 1; Expansion Rate decreased by 1.
      27. Marder II (SdKfz-131) (0035) – Expansion Rate increased by 1.
      28. Marder III (0036) – Build Limit decreased by 2; Production End Date changed from 4/44 to 1/45.
      29. Panzerjager 38(t) (0037) – Build Limit decreased by 1; Expansion Rate decreased by 1; Production End Date changed from 10/42 to 1/43.
      30. Nashorn (0038) – Production Start Date changed from 2/43 to 3/43.
      31. Hetzer (0039) – Frontal Armor decreased by 4; Build Limit reduced by 5; Expansion Rate decreased by 1.
      32. Jagdpanzer IV/70(V) (0041) – Frontal Armor decreased by 10; Side Armor decreased by 6; Top Armor decreased by 1; Build Limit decreased by 2; Expansion Rate decreased by 1.
      33. Jagdpanther (0042) – Initial Factory size decreased by 1; Frontal Armor decreased by 7; Top Armor increased by 2; Production Start Date changed from 1/44 to 2/44.
      34. Elefant (0043) – Side Armor decreased by 8; Reliability Rating changed from 40 to 45.
      35. Jagdtiger (0044) – Frontal Armor increased by 15; Top Armor increased by 2; Production Start Date changed from 7/44 to 8/44.
      36. Hummel (0046) – Build Limit increased by 3.
      37. SdKfz-10/4 (0048) – Initial Factory Size increased by 2; Build Limit increased by 2; Production End Date changed from 12/44 to 1/44.
      38. Flakpanzer 38(t) (0049) – Frontal Armor increased by 4; Build Limit increased by 2; Expansion Rate increased by 1; Production End Date changed from 2/44 to 1/45.
      39. Wirbelwind (0050) – Initial Factory Size increased by 1; Build Limit decreased by 2; Expansion Rate decreased by 3; Production End Date changed from 11/44 to 1/45.
      40. Ostwind (0051) – Crew Size reduced by 1; Expansion Rate increased by 1.
      41. sIG33 (0052) – Production End Date changed from 2/40 to 1/42.
      42. sIG33 Grille (0053) – Crew Size deceased by 1; Build Limit decreased by 8; Expansion Rate decreased by 1. (Note: This vehicle “swapped” data base slots with the sIG33 (SdKfz-138) to reduce scenario edits.)
      43. SdKfz-221(0054) – Production End Date changed from 5/40 to 1/41.
      44. SdKfz-231 (0056) – Production End Date changed from 9/43 to 1/44.
      45. SdKfz-234/1 (0057) – Production End Date changed from 1/45 to 10/44.
      46. SdKfz-234/2 (0058) – Production Start Date changed from 9/43 to 1/44.
      47. SdKfz-234/3 (0059) – Production End Date changed from 11/44 to 1/45.
      48. SdKfz-234/4 (0060) – Build Limit increased by 1.
      49. SdKfz-251/1 (0062) – Initial Factory Size decreased by 2: Build Limit decreased by 6; Expansion Rate decreased by 1; Production End Date changed from 8/43 to 1/44. (Note: All the SdKfz-251 variants were being over-produced and corrected to not exceed 40% of total production.)
      50. SdKfz-251/10 (0063) – Initial Factory Size increased by 2; Build Limit decreased by 13; Expansion Rate decreased by 1.
      51. SdKfz-251/2 (0064) – Initial Factory Size decreased by 6; Build Limit decreased by 6; Production End Date changed from 8/43 to 1/44.
      52. SdKfz-251/1 (0065) – Build Limit decreased by 10.
      53. SdKfz-233 (0066) – Build Limit deceased by 1.
      54. SdKfz-251/17 (0090) – Build Limit decreased by 9.
      55. SdKfz-251/22 (0107) – Build Limit decreased by 6; Expansion Rate decreased by 1.
      56. Mobelwagen (0117) – Build Limit decreased by 1; Expansion Rate decreased by 1.
      57. Panzer IVj (0125) – Build Limit increased by 3; Expansion Rate increased by 1.
      58. SdKfz-251/9 (0126) – Build Limit decreased by 12.
      59. SdKfz-6/2 (0127) – Production End Date changed from 12/43 to 5/42.
      60. Stug IV (0170) – Build Limit increased by 1; Expansion Rate decreased by 1.
      61. CV-33 (0177) – Production End Date changed from 12/41 to 1/42.
      62. L6/40 (0178) – Production End Date changed from 9/42 to 1/43.
      63. M-11/39 (0179) – Production End Date changed from 11/40 to 1/41.
      64. M-13/40 (0180) – Initial Factory Size decreased by 1; Build Limit decreased by 1; Production End Date changed from 12/42 to 1/43.
      65. M-15/42 (0181) – Production End Date changed from 9/45 to 8/43.
      66. Semovente L40 da 47 (0183) – Production End Date changed from 2/43 to 4/43; Build Limit increased by 7.
      67. Semovente M40 da 75 (0184) – Production End Date changed from 12/42 to 1/43.
      68. Semovente M43 da 105 (0185) – Production End Date changed from 9/45 to 8/43.
      69. Autoblinda (0187) – Initial Factory Size decreased by 1; Production Start Date changed from 1/40 to 1/41; Production End Date changed from 9/45 to 8/43; Build Limit decreased by 1.
      70. Semovente M42 da 75 (0188) – Production Start Date changed from 3/43 to 5/43; Production End Date changed from 9/45 to 8/43; Build Limit increased by 1.
      71. SdKfz-7/1 (0209) – Initial Factory Size decreased by 1; Production Start Date changed from 6/41 to 4/40; Production End Date changed from 9/43 to 10/44; 26 vehicles in 1941 pool; Expansion Rate decreased by 1.
      72. SdKfz-7/2 (0210) – Initial Factory Size decreased by 2; Crew Size decreased by 3; Build Limit increased by 3.
      73. Panzerjager 38(t)H (0216) – Build Limit increased by 1; Production End Date changed from 3/43 to 1/44.
      74. Panzer 38(t) Aufklarer (0217) – Build Limit decreased by 2; Expansion Rate decreased by 1.
      75. sIG33 (SdKfz-138) (0218) – Build Limit decreased by 3; Expansion Rate decreased by 1. (Note: See 42 above.)
      76. Panzer IIIj L/42 (0219) – Build Limit increased by 2.
      77. SdKfz-251/2 (0220) – Build Limit decreased by 10.
      78. Panzer IVg L/48 (0221) – Build Limit increased by 1; Expansion Rate increased by 1; Production End Date changed from 4/43 to 1/44.
      79. OA vz. 30 (0225) – Production End Date changed from 12/41 to 1/42.
      80. CKD-R1 (0226) – Production End Date changed from 12/42 to 1/43.
      81. Vanatorul de care R-35 (0230) – Production End Date changed from 12/44 to 7/44.
      82. TACAM T-60 (0237) – Production Start Date changed from 7/43 to 2/43; Production End Date changed from 9/45 to 9/43.
      83. TACAM R-2 (0238) – Production Start Date changed from 7/44 to 1/44; Production End Date changed from 9/45 to 5/44.
      84. Toldi II (0278) – Initial Factory Size decreased by 3; Production End Date changed from 6/42 to 2/42; Build Limit decreased by 1.
      85. Turan-I (0279) – Initial Factory Size decreased by 1; Production Start Date changed from 9/41 to 11/41; Production End Date changed from 6/43 to 1/43; Build Limit decreased by 1.
      86. Turan-II (0280) – Production Start Date changed from 7/43 to 2/43; Production End Date changed from 12/44 to 5/44.
      87. Nimrod (0287) – Production End Date changed from 12/42 to 11/42; Build Limit increased by 2; Expansion Rate increased by 1.
      88. 39M CSABA (0288) – Production End Date changed from 9/45 to 1/45; Build Limit decreased by 1; (Note: All CSABAs were produced prior to Barbarossa.)
      89. Toldi IIa (0303) – Production Start Date changed from 1/43 to 7/42; Production End Date changed from 10/43 to 12/43; Build Limit decreased by 1.
      90. Zrinyi II (0307) – Production Start Date changed from 1/43 to 5/43; Production End Date changed from 12/44 to 6/44.
      91. LT-38 (0333) – Production End Date changed from 12/42 to 12/41.
      92. LT-40 (0335) – Production End Date changed from 12/42 to 4/42.

    Other Data Changes:

      1. Renamed OB 336 from 41 Sturm Division to 41c Infantry Division. It will upgrade to a Sturm division (OB 337) in 1943.
      2. Fixed several problems with German Cavalry brigades in all the Campaign scenarios and the Decision in the Ukraine scenario by using new Cavalry Brigade OBs.
      3. The French Volunteer Regiment now uses the 44 Infantry Regiment OB in the 44 Campaign.
      4. Changed Soviet rocket launchers to single device elements with adjusted ROF.
      5. Changed 41 Infantry Regiment OB to upgrade to the 43 Infantry Regiment.




_____________________________

Andrew Loveridge

Production Assistant

Post #: 1
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/12/2012 5:28:51 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Good stuff.

6. Changes to Combat Formulas

a) Reduced the fire of artillery elements during bombardment (2-hex) combat (primarily reduced the fire of defending artillery).
b) Defensive fire will be reduced to conserve ammunition if the attacker is relatively very small (roughly less than half the size of the defender).
c) If an artillery element is firing with its non-main gun devices only, 1/10 of the standard ammunition is used.
d) Removed very large ammo usage spikes by artillery ground elements in battle.

Very interested in seeing how this works out.

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Andrew Loveridge)
Post #: 2
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/12/2012 6:02:06 PM   
tbone1218

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/3/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for keeping the game updated!

(in reply to Andrew Loveridge)
Post #: 3
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/12/2012 6:24:49 PM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Hooray for Support Units getting some... err... support

What about updating end dates for Soviet equipment, like the German one was done? Those I- planes dont't have any end dates and they are never obsolete...

< Message edited by morvael -- 12/12/2012 6:25:09 PM >

(in reply to tbone1218)
Post #: 4
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/12/2012 6:26:12 PM   
Commanderski

 

Posts: 284
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Thanks for the update and continued support!

(in reply to tbone1218)
Post #: 5
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/12/2012 9:15:46 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1539
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online 		Thanks for the big update

But what exactly does this mean:

b) Defensive fire will be reduced to conserve ammunition if the attacker is relatively very small (roughly less than half the size of the defender).

Does it mean half the size in CV, men or units size (i.e half a division) or something else?

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Commanderski)
Post #: 6
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/12/2012 9:38:46 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 1422
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Think of a Inf Regiment attacking a Rifle Corps - you can't stretch a regiment that far to have a common frontline with a whole corps. Thus only a smaller part of the Corps frontline is in combat and actually firing thus ammo usage is reduced.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 7
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/12/2012 9:46:49 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1539
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online 		I understand this and agree with it. But I want to know what half size means. Half of what?

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 8
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/12/2012 9:55:47 PM   
Blubel

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 6/22/2011
Status: offline 		Thanks for the update!

If it is the size in numbers, it wouldn't really solve the problem with Soviets attacking...

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 9
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/12/2012 10:02:02 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18456
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		IIRC from a conversation with Pavel, it's something like number of men or number of elements and is not related to CV or to the type of unit (i.e. Regiment vs Division).

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 10
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/12/2012 10:04:29 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1539
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online 		Ok thanks Joel.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 11
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/13/2012 12:05:05 AM   
Paul Roberts

 

Posts: 662
Joined: 4/22/2001
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Quick install question:

If I'm doing a reinstallation, will this order work?

1) Base Game
2) Don to the Danube
3) Latest beta patch

Or do I need to patch the game to a certain level before Don to the Danube?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see that Don to the Danube automatically patches the game to a certain level if it's not there already.

< Message edited by Paul Roberts -- 12/13/2012 12:06:57 AM >

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 12
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/15/2012 7:04:32 AM   
Offworlder

 

Posts: 840
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Where can it be found? I can't find it on the Member's section

(in reply to Andrew Loveridge)
Post #: 13
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/15/2012 12:06:14 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 785
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		To be specific, it's in the 'Registered Games' section, not the 'Members' section.

Klink, Oberst




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
(Marcus Porcius Cato Censorius)

Visit the Gefechtsstand!

(in reply to Offworlder)
Post #: 14
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/15/2012 6:48:30 PM   
Offworlder

 

Posts: 840
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks!

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 15
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/15/2012 6:54:36 PM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		To repeat my question - do you plan to review the end dates for Soviet equipment (as it was done with German equipment) for a new patch?

(in reply to Offworlder)
Post #: 16
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/15/2012 7:58:06 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18456
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		To my knowledge, there is no one working on an adjustment to the Soviet side.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 17
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/15/2012 9:01:20 PM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		And what would such work entail? I mean how coordination, approval from your side and transfer of the work that need to be done is executed?

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 18
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/15/2012 9:38:38 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 1422
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Please play a little with the new Beta and you'll see it's indeed improved to get rid of old planes. As german player I had to manually change understrength Hs 126 recon units to an in-production aircraft type but the new .exe does it for me now. The same on the soviet side - steady replacement of old I-1x stuff.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 19
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/15/2012 9:43:34 PM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		I'm just wondering if little data cleanup wouldn't help the engine in that matter - a non-zero number of soviet equipment has no proper end date set.

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 20
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/16/2012 11:07:50 AM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		According to a quick survey I made in the CSV export files, the following Soviet planes have no end date set and no upgrade path:
I-15bis, I-153, I-153BS, I-15bis, I-16 Type 18, I-16 Type 24, I-16 Type 29, I-16 Type 5, Yak-4, La-7, R-5, R-Z, R-10, SB-2, SB-2(recon), Ar-2, IL-10, IL-4, TB-3G-2, Li-2VP

At least some of them were not produced till the end of war, so their end dates should be set properly. I would be willing to do it, but how to send you the list of proposed changes?

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 21
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/16/2012 12:24:53 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11083
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		What would be the point setting end date to the planes which are not produced?

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 22
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/16/2012 1:28:26 PM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		From least to most important reasons:
1) being a software developer myself, I'm kind of data nazi, so if the quality (completeness) of data can be improved - it should. You never know where this may come handy (like the problem caused in the latest patch to ARM factories - it's source is in data inconsistency).
2) to serve as visual reminder for people that this or that plane is obsolete - being relatively new to WitE I still remember how overwhelming the production screen looks with all those names that say nothing, a couple of # could be handy.
3) to help the upgrade/swap engine in deciding when to phase out old planes. Everyone's favourite source says for example that I-16 was produced until 1942, and half of the produced planes were still in service when they were phased out in 1943. So setting end date to 12-41 or 1-42 should help the engine to phase out those planes in '43.

< Message edited by morvael -- 12/16/2012 1:29:51 PM >

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 23
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/16/2012 2:07:11 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11083
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

3) to help the upgrade/swap engine in deciding when to phase out old planes. Everyone's favourite source says for example that I-16 was produced until 1942, and half of the produced planes were still in service when they were phased out in 1943. So setting end date to 12-41 or 1-42 should help the engine to phase out those planes in '43.


I-16 (combat version) was never produced that late, at least in meaningful quantities. It was officially out of production by the end of 1940.

For the planes with no production end date is not used much.



_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 24
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/16/2012 3:14:31 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 1422
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Polykarpov factory (in Gorky/Moskovsky) produced I-16 up to early 1941 (partially side-by-side with LaGG-3) but then completely switched to LaGG-3 (their fighter proposal lost the competition against MiG-3 and LaGG-3 and was not selected for production). Factory became the major producer of LaGG, La-5 and La-7 but was at some time in danger of being taken-over by Yakovlev.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 25
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/16/2012 4:40:49 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11083
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Polykarpov factory (in Gorky/Moskovsky) produced I-16 up to early 1941 (partially side-by-side with LaGG-3) but then completely switched to LaGG-3 (their fighter proposal lost the competition against MiG-3 and LaGG-3 and was not selected for production). Factory became the major producer of LaGG, La-5 and La-7 but was at some time in danger of being taken-over by Yakovlev.



They made 80 I-16 in 1941, all the rest were trainers UTI-4.

http://www.rudolf.webservis.ru/72ag_books/mono/i15_i16/39_41gg.htm

In any case that was long before June 1941


_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 26
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/17/2012 10:06:53 AM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Ok, the end date could be set to whatever you experts say. Anyway, certainly 1) and 2) remain valid points and I also thought that 3) is a valid reason in light of recent patch changes (though now as I read them I see they affect mostly ground elements, especially AFVs, not planes).

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 27
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/17/2012 10:30:25 AM   
gingerbread


Posts: 1165
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Lund, Sweden
Status: offline 		I strongly suggest that this patch (1.06.22) is withdrawn, since it will mess up the industry.

It's a beta so nuking it should not be a hard call to make.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 28
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/17/2012 2:47:37 PM   
Offworlder

 

Posts: 840
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

I strongly suggest that this patch (1.06.22) is withdrawn, since it will mess up the industry.

It's a beta so nuking it should not be a hard call to make.


In what way is it messing up the industry?

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 29
RE: WitE New Public Beta v1.06.22 Available - 12/17/2012 2:58:38 PM   
morvael


Posts: 1129
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		ARM factories over 16 will be reduced to 16. Soviets lose about 15 ARM production if they didn't move their at-start ARM factories making them smaller in the process (when moving in parts).

(in reply to Offworlder)
Post #: 30
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