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Soviet SU distribution

 
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Soviet SU distribution - 12/12/2012 7:14:14 AM   
SigUp

 

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I'm intending to start a GC on the Soviet side. A minor question to more experienced players, is it better to let SU move to STAVKA, then rail it around and redistribute them, or lock the HQs on the first turn and manually distribute them? Furthermore, what is recommended for a SU makeup on Army/ Front level?

Thanks
Post #: 1
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/12/2012 8:39:30 AM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp

I'm intending to start a GC on the Soviet side. A minor question to more experienced players, is it better to let SU move to STAVKA, then rail it around and redistribute them, or lock the HQs on the first turn and manually distribute them? Furthermore, what is recommended for a SU makeup on Army/ Front level?

Thanks



(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 2
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/12/2012 11:03:32 AM   
delatbabel


Posts: 1244
Joined: 7/30/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
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I guess I build a lot more SUs than some players.

My ideal army by late '41 will have:
2 x tank bns, to get pushed into corps later.
4 x artillery, pref army arty regiments but RVGK will do (since there are a lot floating about and you may as well use them rather than disband them).
maybe 1 or 2 AT regiments, type c preferred.
Sometimes a heavy artillery - BM for example.
6 sapper regiments, also get pushed into corps later.
2 RR construction brigades. I start pushing these back to the Front HQs later.
2 mortar
1 rocket
3 calling birds
2 french hens
1 partridge, c/w pear tree.

Let's face it, unless you have a lot of divs wiped out after turn 17 and need the APs for rebuilds, you have enough APs to build lots of SUs early, and they aren't 4x the cost like on map units are. An HQ loaded with SUs can pack a fair bit more punch than one without.


_____________________________

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Del

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 3
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/12/2012 11:18:03 AM   
morvael


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Joined: 9/8/2006
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Wow, I'm very poor in the sapper department then...

For mortars I think the best unit is the 41 Mortar Bn as it packs 36 120mm mortars (as 43 Mortar Regiment) but very little support squads (so no drain on men).

(in reply to delatbabel)
Post #: 4
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/12/2012 11:43:30 AM   
SigUp

 

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Thanks for the quick replies.

(in reply to morvael)
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RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/12/2012 7:48:07 PM   
turtlefang

 

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Everyone has thier own opinion on this one ranging from no SU support beyond what you get at the start to heavy SU support. You have to get a feel for what works for your strategy.

The singlest biggest bang for your buck will be sapper regiments. They dig, they destroy fortifications, they dig, and they help on offensive and defense. Did I mention they dig? $ for $, they're worth more than all the rest of the SUs.

As far as what I do, mine runs to the following for the SU initially:

a) Disband all the MC regiments, AT units, fortification zones, PVO/AA battalions, sapper battalions. The MC regiments simply require too many trucks for the CV; the AT and FZ provide a lot of guns; and the sapper battalions are useless in my opinion. The AA battalions don't provide that much support.

b) For each front, I generally build 1 PVO regiment and two RR construction units. (Later, in 42 when the manpower situation becomes better, I up this to 4 RR units).

c) For each army, I want two artillery regiments - and I prefer RVKG units due to the mix of calibers, a 36 gun 120mm battalion, plus 3 sapper regiments and on PVO regiment.

d) For each air HQ, I will assign either 1 or 2 PVO regiments depending on how I feel. I tend to go with two but that because I've been burned by the German air force in other games.

The PVO regiments are worth thier weight in gold - these units will kill more German planes that your airforce will in the first year to 18 months.

Later on, I start to increase the RR units and will add another 41 mortar battalion (cheap Arm pts and manpower). That's usually in 42.

As far as what to do on turn one, I set ALL HQs to zero support units and let SU migrate to STAVKA (set on 9 SU level). It takes about three turns and a few engineer units won't ever migrate. Then you do a grand railroad tour around the army HQs and fronts to distribute the SU. You usually have enough to provide each army HQ with 2 artillery units. Mtrs have to be built (and I usually disband the hvy Mtrs). Over time, as I have extra AP points, I convert these to RKVG units. I don't get the feel that the heavy only artillery units actually pay off defensively. They use a lot of ammo up fast and don't seem to cause a lot of defensive losses.

Later on, in artillery divisions, the heavy guns on offense are real killers. But defensively, they just haven't performed as well for me. That said, I do like the mixed RKVG regiments from a supply perspective AND the mixed range you get.

On the other hand, several very good players don't assign artillery units to Armies/Fronts until close to the first blizzard. They feel that the SUs take losses and don't provide good value simply because the Soviets are going to take a pounding no matter what you do. I would just rather cause as many losses to the German as possible.

I avoid the light cannon units (76mm SUs). For the shock armies, where I put my cav divs that turn into corps, I will usually add two or three heavy tank regiments.

In 42, if I have a lot of supplies, manpower and APs after the Soviet TOE changes, I start adding tank regiments to the army HQs. And I tend to standardize all my armies into infantry, cavalry or armor with the same support for each.

In 42, when all the Artillery Divisions are avaliable, that's where the guns go. And I don't build artillery BGs. Too light and I haven't gotten a good bang for the buck.

Anyway, my 2 cents.


(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 6
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/12/2012 8:02:37 PM   
morvael


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I think it's ok to build Separate Tank Battalions from the start (they will later upgrade to Regiments). They allow all those AFVs waiting in the pool to be used. With one Bn per army and Cav Corps, I have counted that I have 2700+ tanks there (nearly 40% of the whole), which otherwise would be wasted in the pool.

(in reply to turtlefang)
Post #: 7
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/12/2012 8:05:28 PM   
morvael


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edit: double post

< Message edited by morvael -- 12/12/2012 8:07:03 PM >

(in reply to turtlefang)
Post #: 8
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/12/2012 10:05:52 PM   
Wally Wilson


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From: The Republic of Texas
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I hang on to some MC SUs to place in Cav Corps until I have the extra tanks for Tank Bns.

In my current game, I'm experimenting with using six SU's of heavy guns and BM at the front level.

Keep in mind that there is no Soviet production of 152mm howitzers for a two year period. If you produce howitzer regiments, keep an eye on the pool.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 9
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/13/2012 12:31:59 AM   
turtlefang

 

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As I said, everyone has thier own approach. And you have to find what works for you.

I prefer keeping the trucks in the MC regiments in the truck pool - my Soviet's are usually hurting for trucks, especially in the first blizzard so these units represent an area I like to "convert" into my truck pool. Wally Wilson prefers to keep them for his Cavalry Corps. Two different approachs. And pluses and minuses to both approaches.

The tank battalions are another example. I don't build them or attach them to the infantry units in 41 or early 42. Why? In many cases, getting supplies to the Soviet units are a big issue for the Soviets - especially in 41 with the -2 to the die rolls. I don't want a supply hog like a lot tank battalions making things worse. However, the trade off is the big build up of unused tanks in the pool, the missing firepower, and lack - in some cases - of an edge to Soviet attacks. Again, different style of play. Different set of + and -.

Another one is that certain types of guns - 152 How and 160mm Mtr - use a lot of ammo. If you can keep these assigned to units that you will use for counter attacks, they can be very effective (I can't and lose track of them, it why I standardize my armies/fronts). I have a friend I play who tailors each army to specific task and micro manages to a degree I simply will never do - so each of his armies are unique. I'm just too lazy to do that so all mind are either infantry, cavalry or armor. Works for me.

All of these types of decisions have trade offs - some very easy to see, some that you find out the hard way. In any case, experiment till you find what works for you.

And just as a note, I make no claims to be one of the best/better player's around. In fact, far from it. This is what I do and what has worked for me.

(in reply to Wally Wilson)
Post #: 10
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/13/2012 10:37:57 PM   
Wally Wilson


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I tried to do the mission focused SU assignments, but it is a PITA and made my brain hurt. If I had to step away from the game for two or three days I would often forget what I was going to put where.

(in reply to turtlefang)
Post #: 11
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/14/2012 12:31:03 AM   
turtlefang

 

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You've hit on my biggest issue if I don't standardize. If I step away from the game, then I forget what I specialized which armies in and it takes forever to figure it out. I've tried notes but that didn't work.

And I don't ever have a chance to play two or three days in row. If I'm lucky, I get to play every other day or more likely, a couple of times a week.

And I usually have two games going with two different friends - which confuses me even more.

So I try to minimize "distractions". And that means creating standard Soviet armies, minimizing supply demands so I can focus on the tactical stuff, and try to keep focused.

For you guys who can do the specialization and keep it straight, your a better player than I.

(in reply to Wally Wilson)
Post #: 12
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/26/2012 7:53:02 PM   
BIG ERN

 

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stange question..HOW do I disband support units I dont want? A silly question..except I cant seem to do it. No problem creating them.

(in reply to turtlefang)
Post #: 13
RE: Soviet SU distribution - 12/26/2012 9:14:53 PM   
Klydon


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The HQ that the SU is in has to be more than 3 hexes away from an enemy unit. You should be able to click on the SU to pull it up and it will give you the option to disband if you are in supply and not close to enemy units.

(in reply to BIG ERN)
Post #: 14
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