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Have you played WitE

 
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Have you played WitE - 12/12/2012 12:41:25 AM   
HowieWowie

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 12/2/2012
Status: offline 		Have you played the WitE? If so will you go back to it after Case Blue?
Post #: 1
RE: Have you played WitE - 12/12/2012 1:36:14 AM   
schmolywar

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 12/12/2010
Status: offline 		I still play it. I love all the little tinkering involved in it.

_____________________________

"The Russian advance over this hastily improvised road, constructed with the aid of the most primitive facilities, was, for a time,accompanied by the strains of band music.".

-Peculiarities of russian warfare

(in reply to HowieWowie)
Post #: 2
RE: Have you played WitE - 12/12/2012 10:55:55 AM   
Reconvet

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 1/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HowieWowie

Have you played the WitE? If so will you go back to it after Case Blue?


I have playe WitE, and no way I'm going back. The air war in WitE is a joke, the artificial weakening of each side on certain calendar dates (powerpacks reduced to ants overnight...) is beyond ridiculous, no incentives to hold ground (leading to alternating prolonged runaway-phases), logistics concept is questionable (tank drives hundreds of miles behind enemy lines anyone?), no overrun possibility (instead routs beyond any imaginable march distance...), no flank attack bonus, just to name a few reasons.

I was terribly disappointed with WitE, chances for a top game were thrown away unnecessarily. I just hope they'll be able to improve some vital core concepts for future games.


_____________________________

The biggest threat for mankind is ignorance.


(in reply to HowieWowie)
Post #: 3
RE: Have you played WitE - 12/12/2012 11:43:25 AM   
Bonners


Posts: 462
Joined: 8/24/2012
From: Stockport, UK
Status: offline 		I've never played it. I was looking for a first strategy game to try and this one looked about right. Reading some of the AARs of WitE a lot of it seems to come down to number crunching and mathematics rather than just getting on and playing. Yes I realise that in any strategy game there needs to be a level of calculation involved, but it should also involve a level of intuitive feeling for what is the right move to make.

I think a novice player would really struggle as well, it must be very difficult to find an opponent who isnt going to crush you into the dirt and have the game over as a contest within about three turns, I'm not too sure how htat would work as a learning exerience. At least this game there is the dismissal rule or prestige levels to look at to tell you that you're finished, then (if dismissal is rule off) you can make a decisions as to whether there is any point in carrying on with the game.

(in reply to Reconvet)
Post #: 4
RE: Have you played WitE - 12/12/2012 11:52:11 AM   
olivier34

 

Posts: 998
Joined: 5/10/2010
From: montpellier
Status: offline 		I have played WITE. Tooks me a lot of time to understand the system. Played a few pbem, 100 turns as the german, full scenario. I had a good time (really like the map and all the stats you can have) but I won't get back to it (will see how war in the west will turn).
Main reasons : the soviet carpet thing or checkerboard defenses, fow not as interesting as in DC games and the attacks not so intuitive to conduct...
and so many versions to try balancing the game...
but I sometimes read wite forum and I am a fan of tulliusdetritus AARs.

(in reply to Reconvet)
Post #: 5
RE: Have you played WitE - 12/12/2012 11:18:18 PM   
The Red Baron


Posts: 109
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: Adirondack Mtns, NY
Status: offline 		WitE is a great game. All the detail you could ever want is there, they tried to incorporate just about everything, but I think I like the idea of the game more than actually playing it. I spent most of my time trying to keep up with all the rule changes and how they affected balance and gameplay. I spent hours crunching numbers and formulating strategies, but I could never make my projected production figures match the production system results no matter how many different ways I tried. It was very frustrating because I wanted to understand. When I asked for clarification, I was told only Pavel and Gary really understood what was going on and they were busy with WitW; that's a shame. I like to understand what's happening and why, rather than just pushing counters. I won't go back; I like Vic's game engine much better. I think the card system he uses is an innovative and enjoyable concept. You have to do some number crunching in DC:CB, but it's manageable and forms an enjoyable part of the planning process (for me). DC:CB strikes a good balance between realism and playability. Like Bonners mentioned, I think DC:CB gives you a decent intuitive feel. I've spent much more time playing DC:CB than WitE. To spend several hours working the numbers and planning your strategy only to have your opponent run away or execute a carpet defense was disappointing, especially since the developers did such a great job with many other aspects of the engine.

(in reply to olivier34)
Post #: 6
RE: Have you played WitE - 12/13/2012 12:36:34 AM   
map66

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 1/31/2011
Status: offline 		I would be the absolute last person to attack WiTE--- simply put I've gotten more hours of pleasure out of it since I bought it a couple years ago then any other game ever by far. I'm so glad it's one of those games that doesn't have a time played option in it like Steam games have, because I'd be rather scared to see mine...

But that said, I did reach (at least temporary) burn out point in WiTE, and at least some of it is tied to things I very much like in the DC system, namely a better turn time frame vs. unit density that allow pockets in particular to form more organically (no Lvov super pocket!), better over run rules that prevent those annoying 3 hex deep lines of Russian divisions, the sense in WiTE that armies are being arbitrarily brought to a normalized number based on historic time period, and above all the high command rules in DC that prevent the mass retreats or dig for 2 months before the blizzard nonsense that plagues WiTE.

That said, much of these systemic problems for WiTE are getting addressed in WiTW, and it remains a superb system even as is. Plus, it offers a few enormous things that are holding me back in playing some of the bigger scenarios in DC PBEM--- namely an undo (!!!!) as well as the ability to save a PBEM turn in progress and resume it later. And I can see the rivers in WiTE.

(in reply to The Red Baron)
Post #: 7
RE: Have you played WitE - 12/13/2012 4:38:33 PM   
redmarkus4


Posts: 3918
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reconvet


quote:

ORIGINAL: HowieWowie

Have you played the WitE? If so will you go back to it after Case Blue?


I have playe WitE, and no way I'm going back. The air war in WitE is a joke, the artificial weakening of each side on certain calendar dates (powerpacks reduced to ants overnight...) is beyond ridiculous, no incentives to hold ground (leading to alternating prolonged runaway-phases), logistics concept is questionable (tank drives hundreds of miles behind enemy lines anyone?), no overrun possibility (instead routs beyond any imaginable march distance...), no flank attack bonus, just to name a few reasons.

I was terribly disappointed with WitE, chances for a top game were thrown away unnecessarily. I just hope they'll be able to improve some vital core concepts for future games.



+1 Exactly how I perceive WitE as well. Add to that the fact that the AI just keeps running away and you have a recipe for sheer frustration.

_____________________________

Managers read statistics and tune processes. Leaders interpret statistics and determine strategy.

(in reply to Reconvet)
Post #: 8
RE: Have you played WitE - 12/14/2012 6:03:47 AM   
39battalion

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4


quote:

ORIGINAL: Reconvet


quote:

ORIGINAL: HowieWowie

Have you played the WitE? If so will you go back to it after Case Blue?


I have playe WitE, and no way I'm going back. The air war in WitE is a joke, the artificial weakening of each side on certain calendar dates (powerpacks reduced to ants overnight...) is beyond ridiculous, no incentives to hold ground (leading to alternating prolonged runaway-phases), logistics concept is questionable (tank drives hundreds of miles behind enemy lines anyone?), no overrun possibility (instead routs beyond any imaginable march distance...), no flank attack bonus, just to name a few reasons.

I was terribly disappointed with WitE, chances for a top game were thrown away unnecessarily. I just hope they'll be able to improve some vital core concepts for future games.



+1 Exactly how I perceive WitE as well. Add to that the fact that the AI just keeps running away and you have a recipe for sheer frustration.



+2 As a fan, and regular purchaser, of Gary Grigsby games I was very disappointed in WITE. Nowhere near as good or as immersive as his masterpiece WitPAE

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 9
RE: Have you played WitE - 12/14/2012 1:54:36 PM   
redmarkus4


Posts: 3918
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: online 		I still play WitPAE, especially when I'm on business trips. I think I have got as far as July 1942! LOL. What an amazing, absorbing game.

When I purchased WitE I felt real excitement at the thought that the WitP experience was coming to the East Front. The rest, as they say, is history...

_____________________________

Managers read statistics and tune processes. Leaders interpret statistics and determine strategy.

(in reply to 39battalion)
Post #: 10
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