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H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB

 
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H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 12/10/2012 12:15:45 AM   
pmsteinm

 

Posts: 10
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When I try to load HUD4 v1.11 (Nov 24) with the H3RE_3_10 I get the following error:

Run-time error '3201':
You cannot add or change a record because a related record is required in table 'lWeaponsTargets'.


Is this problem with HUD or does H3RE need an update? Has anyone else noticed this? I am able to load HUD3 and PlayerDB fine with H3RE.
Post #: 1
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 12/10/2012 6:29:46 AM   
Cdr Sylvester


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From: France
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There's no error at all, just a nicety from me to protect my work... I had to take some precautions since an attempt to import HUD4 in the RE without my permission was done. Sorry everybody must pay the consequences of a minority's despicable acts.

FG

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RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 12/10/2012 3:05:59 PM   
pmsteinm

 

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Is this a temporary thing or permanent? If its permanent I'm confused since AGSI/Matrix made a big deal about providing the H3RE editor and now it sounds like HUD4 is the "official" DB.

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Post #: 3
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 12/10/2012 6:12:10 PM   
Cdr Sylvester


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This is a permanent thing. Look in your private message box.

FG

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Post #: 4
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/17/2013 3:53:04 PM   
Caldrik

 

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I do not understand.
I didn`t play harpoon ultimate for a while and just updated to 3.11.1.
Now, I can not use the R3RE database editor with the HUD4 database?!

Are there any suggestions for a solution?

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Post #: 5
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/17/2013 4:20:03 PM   
Cdr Sylvester


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As I stated above, I was forced to put some protections to HUD4, since some people tried to get in without permission. In the past, same persons to whom I refer to, took data from other databases, and claimed it was their original work. I think people from both Matrix and AGSI clearly stated about database policy, but obviously lessons weren't learnt.

FG



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Post #: 6
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/17/2013 4:45:27 PM   
Caldrik

 

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Thank you for the fast answer.
I am really sorry to hear this.
I never published anything, but harpoon without editing the database is not my harpoon anymore.

From the first release untill the ultimate edition, only the database editor kept me playing harpoon.
too sad

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Post #: 7
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/17/2013 5:04:08 PM   
Cdr Sylvester


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From: France
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Caldrik,

If database editing is what you like in Harpoon, why don't you start over your own database? Harpoon documentation provided with the game gives you tons of info to manage Reimer Editor. I'll assist you if you need help, no problem.

FG

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Post #: 8
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/18/2013 4:04:00 AM   
Vincenzo Beretta


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caldrik

Thank you for the fast answer.
I am really sorry to hear this.


Don't be: it never happened.

What sadly happened were petty conflicts, "I'll take my ball and go home", etc. Who, sadly, poisoned the Harpoon scene making it less friendly than others. Add some suckers who "fell" for "side A" or "side B" without evening knowing the facts (they choose to believe what they liked more) and - as it happens with the last converted - they became among the first Prophet Against Evil.

The Harpoon community by itself, luckily, is very healthy. In my sig. you can find links to sites and Yt channels of interest. We have a server for MP and a Yt channel devoted to video AARs. Other sites bare devoted to other mods/Dbs. Feel free to try everything and decide what you enjoy the most.

quote:


I never published anything, but harpoon without editing the database is not my harpoon anymore.

From the first release untill the ultimate edition, only the database editor kept me playing harpoon.
too sad


True. The falsehoods about what "Database editing" and "stealing" were the key to Harpoon's poisoning. Just look around: from Skyrim to The Sims; from Medieval: Total War 2 to the Source Engine to Battlefield, not to talk about the mods made for the very games produced by Matrix. Modding in a friendly, competitive environment has always been what fueled some of the very best and most enduring successes in the history of videogames. There are even, since 1994-95, clear copyright laws about it - what is permitted and wasn't. I know them: it is part of my daily job since the early '90s. Most of the people I found "whining about law breaking" in the Harpoon scene don't have this kind of preparation, and usually parrot "things they, have heard". They whine anyway hoping to catch the stray, unprepared, innocent gamer.

Last year at the Press Meeting in Stresa (Italy) I spoke personally with Iain McNeil of Slitherine about some of these issues. I can tell you that he has a solid grasp of the fundamentals re: copyright in mod for games, so don't worry when "law" is waved around like a scarecrow. Just ask: everything is very simple.

So, enjoy your Harpoon, edit DBs to your heart's happiness, ditch everything you read/hear which is nonconstructive for the game, and welcome to the community

Vincenzo

< Message edited by Vincenzo Beretta -- 1/18/2013 4:24:16 AM >


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RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/18/2013 6:32:16 AM   
Cdr Sylvester


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Yes Vince, Lance Armstrong didn't use doping either. There were enough proofs given on this forum that a small group had plundered entire databases. Of course, a F-14 will look similar to an other F-14 in each and every database. But when doing hard work in research, how pleasant it is to see your work being copied by people who don't even take the pain to do researches on their own. Why do you think there's this nice thing called "database encryption".
FG

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Post #: 10
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/18/2013 7:06:43 AM   
Vincenzo Beretta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cdr Sylvester

Yes Vince, Lance Armstrong didn't use doping either.


Newsflash: Lance Armstrong DID use doping. More specifically, he used both prohibited substances and methods. The Memphis Three, OTOH...

quote:


There were enough proofs given on this forum that a small group had plundered entire databases.


Actually there never were. I spoke to the lawyer who follows copyright issues in my line of work, and laughed the "proofs" into next week. When I inquired why other gaming groups could serenely mod-on, he shrugged and gave the classic answer "There is always one, sorry for you ".

quote:


Of course, a F-14 will look similar to an other F-14 in each and every database.


Of course.

quote:


But when doing hard work in research, how pleasant it is to see your work being copied by people who don't even take the pain to do researches on their own.


Proof? The F-14 wingspan on database is the same as F-14 wingspan on database B? And this is a crime... how? Can you quote law and passage?

quote:


Why do you think there's this nice thing called "database encryption".


First, if it the idea is nice will be decided by the players - you know, THE BUYERS- Maybe they will find it is not so. Of course tons of telltales, old myths and explanations will, at that point, bought out to explain the choice. People will nod understandingly and move on. Good luck.

Or may be the buyers will find the while idea "nice indeed". True, "Armored Brigade" already has WWII custom databases. The Sims, The Elder Scrolls, TOAW, the Battlefield series by EA, the Source Engine Games, Civilization, basically everything out there (http://www.desura.com/) and even Harpoon enjoy their continued success due to open modding. But what do we know? Maybe the "encrypted database thinghie" will be the way of the future, and the landscape of gaming will be forever changed by it.

Anyway, I want to clearly and openly state one thing: the "Encrypted Database" guys lived for years propagating a lie. But then they did something unexpected: they put their money where they mouth was. I fear this means they ended up "living" the lie. Still, I respect them for this - and I'm serious. To me it is a serious design error, but I really and honestly hope for their new game to be a good game and to succeed. I'll be the first in line with my money when if it published How this central, key idea of the encrypted DB will affect it, only time will tell.

< Message edited by Vincenzo Beretta -- 1/18/2013 7:25:31 AM >


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RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/18/2013 7:08:58 AM   
Vincenzo Beretta


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Double post

< Message edited by Vincenzo Beretta -- 1/18/2013 7:10:06 AM >


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Post #: 12
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/18/2013 3:56:26 PM   
TonyE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caldrik

Thank you for the fast answer.
I am really sorry to hear this.
I never published anything, but harpoon without editing the database is not my harpoon anymore.

From the first release untill the ultimate edition, only the database editor kept me playing harpoon.
too sad


There is always HC, open databases and the guts of the game become more open all the time to modders.

As for Herman & Vince and such, we banned them at HarpGamer not for plagiarism (which we could never prove) but for so negatively impacting Harpoon and the community through their other actions which continue to this day and are evident in this thread. They may come off to newcomers as all great and pious, it is up to each of you to decide whether you agree with them.

Vince, law is one thing, what is right is another. It is not against the law to sleep with your neighbors wife (most places anyway), but it certainly isn't right (most places anyway <g>). Even if wholesale copying of a DB isn't against the law, it still isn't right.

_____________________________

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Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

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Post #: 13
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/18/2013 8:23:20 PM   
Vincenzo Beretta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyE

As for Herman & Vince and such, we banned them at HarpGamer not for plagiarism (which we could never prove)


Exactly: part of the community alienated himself for something that no one in the entire Harpoon-verse seems able to find a single shred of evidence to support.

quote:


but for so negatively impacting Harpoon and the community through their other actions which continue to this day and are evident in this thread.


... Among which: supporting the game, publishing hundreds of scenarios for all its iterations, maintaining a site open to all with my money, and managing a Yt Channel with video tutorials, answers to common questions and AARs (http://www.youtube.com/user/harplonked)...

quote:


Vince, law is one thing, what is right is another.


Exp. in dictatorships I guess. :)

quote:


It is not against the law to sleep with your neighbors wife (most places anyway), but it certainly isn't right (most places anyway <g>).


Actually, there are plenty of legal and legitimate ways of dealing with Infidelilty. :)

quote:


Even if wholesale copying of a DB


...I.e., just to put things in context, what no one was ever able to prove...

quote:


isn't against the law, it still isn't right.


Neither is falsely accusing someone without ever producing a shred of evidence.

Anyway, you have people always babbling about "International Copyright Laws". Maybe you should talk to them.

Ah, to put things in perspective, after countless vague mentions of "crimes" (moral or else) I was supposed to have committed, I was banned the day I posted a scan of my Writers Guild of America card, and of the resources I can access re: copyright and copyright laws in various fields - videogames included. You do the math.

To the original poster: please discard these old babblings between burnouts and enjoy Harpoon and his database editing features the way you want. We are looking forward to your work!

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RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/18/2013 9:50:12 PM   
Cdr Sylvester


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No one was able to prove Ragnar's work had been plundered? I remember years ago, when these forums were given files with the evidence that there was a copy from DB2k. No need to tell it's false, it's true. You were even not able to understand my remark about Lance Armstrong, why do you think I chose to mention his name in such a period? Truth always manages to leak, even when hidden by falshood. And the truth, in our matter, is that originally, Players' Database is an unauthorized copy of DB2k. Despite all your denegations, facts always be Vincenzo. It took several years to Armstrong to admit what bicycles fan already knew, a bit of honesty never hurts ;)

By the way, I still wait from Herman he proves what he stated on an other forum, ie he had the permission from Darren Buckley to use HUD3. And I still also wait for a copy of the document signed from me that I had allowed Herman to upload HUD4 into the Reimer Editor, what he also boasted he had done.

FG


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Post #: 15
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/19/2013 2:18:34 AM   
Vincenzo Beretta


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cdr Sylvester

No one was able to prove Ragnar's work had been plundered? I remember years ago, when these forums were given files with the evidence that there was a copy from DB2k. No need to tell it's false, it's true.


Sorry. but that ironically became the biggest amassing of proof that no plagiarism took place. But this, admittedly, caused suffering in the community. Those who caused this suffering then went on to produce a competing product. Again: you do the math.

quote:


You were even not able to understand my remark about Lance Armstrong


I understood it perfectly, both in my ironic answer and in his admission that, yes, he lied for years and basically ruined his community. Interestingly enough, my perfectly serious remark about the "Memphis Three" didn't elicit even a Google search.

    "A horrific triple child murder leads to an indictment and trial of three nonconformist boys based on questionable evidence."



quote:


Truth always manages to leak, even when hidden by falshood.


But not always in time.

Luckily, in this case, the truth has already come out despite attempts to hide it behind false accusations, as evidenced by the official sub-forum set up by Matrix to specifically accommodate the PlayersDB and its associated scenarios: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=962

quote:


And the truth, in our matter, is that originally, Players' Database is an unauthorized copy of DB2k.


Proof? Expressed in your own words, pleas, not parroted. And supported by independently researched facts.

quote:


Despite all your denegations, facts always be Vincenzo. It took several years to Armstrong to admit what bicycles fan already knew, a bit of honesty never hurts ;)


"I have to forward this to my friends: I also ride a bicycle. Since Armstrong is guilty, I am too. :D

quote:


By the way, I still wait from Herman he proves what he stated on an other forum, ie he had the permission from Darren Buckley to use HUD3.


Why wait? Buckley's permission is publicly available for all to see: http://tinyurl.com/av8q3t8

"You are free to copy, distribute and transmit the HUD3 and all or parts of it's underlying models. You may also edit or adapt the HUD3 database to your own needs. By doing so you are agreeing to fully attribute Darren Buckley as the Editor of the HUD-II and HUD3 databases and you agree to include this information with your own Database's XML file as used in the Harpoon 3 ANW Launcher. This Database may not be used for any commercial purpose without the express permission and agreement of Darren Buckley."

...Which Herman repeatedly pointed out to you, already: http://forummarine.forumactif.com/t5527p75-harpoon-3-scenarios-for-the-playersdb#118271

As well as AGSI's authorization regarding use of the Reimer Editor: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=872 If you don't like it when someone uses the database editors to expose (and correct) all the problems found within the HUD, you should speak to the AGSI owners and not to the third-party user.

Interestingly enough, whoever provided you the "proofs" to parrot against what they didn't like omitted these two. Nor you conducted the kind of independent research that would have allowed to find the exonerating facts in a few minutes. Have you confronted them as why they omitted these open, easily to find, declarations while explaining to you what the problem was?

Armstrong-level investigative work indeed!: listen to those with whom you already agree and parrot them!

Have a nice time. Another game soon will need your help. Who know: maybe we Harpoon lovers will enjoy a molest-free period.

< Message edited by Vincenzo Beretta -- 1/19/2013 3:21:42 AM >


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RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/19/2013 2:59:43 AM   
Vincenzo Beretta


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Double post - again ^^

< Message edited by Vincenzo Beretta -- 1/19/2013 3:01:08 AM >


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RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/19/2013 7:57:32 AM   
Cdr Sylvester


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Vincenzo, you should learn to read. Here's an extract from Darren's latest files:
Harpoon Users' Database or HUD3 is maintained by Darren Buckley in direct co-operation with Advanced Gaming Systems Inc. (AGSI). Neither the Editor (Darren Buckley) or AGSI provide any warranty in relation to this Content as provided with Harpoon3 ANW 3.10. This Database may not be used for any commercial purpose or copied for use in any other Harpoon3 Advanced Naval Warfare Database, without the express written permission and agreement of Darren Buckley.
I felt free to make bold the interesting part. Your version dates from 2009, this one from 2011, and the most recent is the one that rules. So where is the written agreement from Darren? Show us your fake. And for HUD4, I still wait for my permission given to Herman to import HUD4 into Reimer Editor. Where it is?
Reimer editor isn't of a restricted use, what is restricted use is to import somebody else's database without this person's consent. And stop telling that reminding original Players' Database is other people's work plundered is "parroting", you'll never escape this proven fact. Feel free to associate yourself with whom you want, but don't defend what can't be defended.
So stop making us believe bladders are lanterns. For your information, somebody truthworthy asked to import HUD4 into RE, and I gave my agreement and the code.

FG

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Post #: 18
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/19/2013 10:51:52 PM   
Vincenzo Beretta


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From: Milan, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cdr Sylvester

Vincenzo, you should learn to read. Here's an extract from Darren's latest files:
Harpoon Users' Database or HUD3 is maintained by Darren Buckley in direct co-operation with Advanced Gaming Systems Inc. (AGSI). Neither the Editor (Darren Buckley) or AGSI provide any warranty in relation to this Content as provided with Harpoon3 ANW 3.10. This Database may not be used for any commercial purpose or copied for use in any other Harpoon3 Advanced Naval Warfare Database, without the express written permission and agreement of Darren Buckley.
I felt free to make bold the interesting part. Your version dates from 2009, this one from 2011, and the most recent is the one that rules. So where is the written agreement from Darren? Show us your fake.


Thank you for focusing upon the relevant part of the waiver. Since the PlayersDB is not used for commercial purposes, that entire "express written permission" requirement is irrelevant. Therefore, the only requirement is:

    You are free to copy, distribute and transmit the HUD3 and all or parts of it's underlying models. You may also edit or adapt the HUD3 database to your own needs. By doing so you are agreeing to fully attribute Darren Buckley as the Editor of the HUD-II and HUD3 databases and you agree to include this information with your own Database's XML file as used in the Harpoon 3 ANW Launcher.


Of course, your blunder is totally understandable and common for those ignorant with regards to Copyright law. As someone who works with copyrights on a daily basis, I am happy to educate you upon these matters. As long as a work is done for free and distributed freely, copyright does not apply. This is how scenarios and databases for ALL games are made. However, if anyone (you included) should try to sell your database or scenario, then you would be inviolation of AGSI and Matrix copyrights. If you don't believe me, go ahead and try it and see how fast their lawyers contact you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cdr Sylvester

And for HUD4, I still wait for my permission given to Herman to import HUD4 into Reimer Editor. Where it is?
Reimer editor isn't of a restricted use, what is restricted use is to import somebody else's database without this person's consent.

Actually, it isn't restricted to import a database into a tool provided by AGSI. AGSI has provided this tool to their customers and have placed no such restriction upon its use. Since you are just another user and neither represent nor speak for AGSI, your opinion is irrelevant.

The database is being examined (as allowed by AGSI) and none of the information is being used as part of any derivative work. Therefore, no restriction can apply. As this is also done with no commercial benefit, copyright is, once again, irrelevant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cdr Sylvester

And stop telling that reminding original Players' Database is other people's work plundered is "parroting", you'll never escape this proven fact. Feel free to associate yourself with whom you want, but don't defend what can't be defended.

Throwing a tantrum and demanding everyone share in your delusion does not make it true. I would be happy to stop that once you actually provide first-hand evidence to the contrary and make a statement that is actually yours and not simply parroting that of another.

To all the readers:

I'm sorry to see a forum devoted to a game's enjoyment becoming once again the opportunity to rethread old, tired, debunked flamewars. Unfortunatly, I have no control about it. I fully expect in the near future to see another forum (or even, alas, this very one again) molested by the same re-heated leftovers, like if what we saw here never happened.

We have Harpoon, a flawed but good game made even better by its Db editing feature. Soon we will have Command: another game which shows great promise and whose designers decided to take a different approach to thrid-party modding. I think we can look forward to a lot of modern naval warfare enjoyment. Meanwhile, as I said, I cannot guarantee that we will not see the next naked streaker pass by. Unluckly, in Harpoon this isn't a bug but a feature

Fair winds and following seas!

Vincenzo

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RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/20/2013 8:42:05 AM   
JSF

 

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Vincenzo,

you have forgotten to mention one thing to "all the readers":

The guys who create Command have banned you and Herman many years ago. Just as you both are banned from Harpgamer (as Tony posted in this same thread). Just as Herman is banned from Matrix Games, this place here, for years now.

And you think those Command guys who threw you out are waiting for Herman and you reappeare and to "mod" their game?

To keep it civil: You have used words like "suckers", "leftovers" etc. No one else in this thread.

And there is agreement regarding the central point: many guys are still Playing Harpoon and enjoying it, despite its bugs. There are separate groups, why not. All can focus on their scenarios, databases and simply playing without bashing other ones. So why not simply do this? I thought there was a cease-fire, for months now.

Agreed?

Or do we disagree even about this one? I think we all are educated adults and life is short.

(in reply to Vincenzo Beretta)
Post #: 20
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/20/2013 8:54:27 AM   
Vincenzo Beretta


Posts: 577
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JSF

Vincenzo,

you have forgotten to mention one thing to "all the readers":

The guys who create Command have banned you and Herman many years ago. Just as you both are banned from Harpgamer (as Tony posted in this same thread). Just as Herman is banned from Matrix Games, this place here, for years now.


They don't like what I say. It's their forum, their decision, their responsibility.

quote:


And you think those Command guys who threw you out are waiting for Herman and you reappeare and to "mod" their game?


It's my understanding that the Command designers don't want mods at all, so this is moot.

quote:


To keep it civil: You have used words like "suckers", "leftovers" etc. No one else in this thread.


I'll inform the family to ban both straws and leftovers from our dinners.

quote:


And there is agreement regarding the central point: many guys are still Playing Harpoon and enjoying it, despite its bugs. There are separate groups, why not. All can focus on their scenarios, databases and simply playing without bashing other ones. So why not simply do this? I thought there was a cease-fire, for months now.

Agreed?


You have to bring this issue to something else. I don't like to be lied about, exp. when the answers (with proofs) were already given. However, that someone wants for a circle to become a square and thinks that saying "square" over and over will do, it is something out of my control. I agree, of course, that after a while hearing always the same tired lies becomes boring.

quote:


Or do we disagree even about this one? I think we all are educated adults and life is short.


I disagree on the first statement, but I agree on the second: life, indeed, is short. I can only add that for some, alas, it is also narrow.

< Message edited by Vincenzo Beretta -- 1/20/2013 8:56:40 AM >


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Post #: 21
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/20/2013 9:22:33 AM   
JSF

 

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Very good. I think we all can live with that.

Have a nice Sunday.

(in reply to Vincenzo Beretta)
Post #: 22
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/20/2013 1:44:07 PM   
Sunburn


Posts: 3897
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta
It's my understanding that the Command designers don't want mods at all, so this is moot.


Your understanding is wrong. Command in fact offers a greater ability and diversity of custom mods than any of the Harpoon versions. We have explained the various options repeatedly on public posts & interviews.

Thanks

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 1/20/2013 1:46:48 PM >


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(in reply to Vincenzo Beretta)
Post #: 23
RE: H3RE Can't load the HUD4 DB - 1/20/2013 7:50:30 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 32549
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Vincenzo,

I wish this subject had not been re-opened, even if only through non-specific comments. However, I also wish that the inevitable response from you had stayed within the forum policy we long ago posted and will enforce.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta
What sadly happened were petty conflicts, "I'll take my ball and go home", etc. Who, sadly, poisoned the Harpoon scene making it less friendly than others. Add some suckers who "fell" for "side A" or "side B" without evening knowing the facts (they choose to believe what they liked more) and - as it happens with the last converted - they became among the first Prophet Against Evil.


Characterizing the community and the other parties involved in this fashion once again crosses the line on personal insults and non-constructive posts that I've explained to you many times. If you want to post constructively, great. Otherwise, no thanks. Since this is not the first time you've crossed this line and you seem determined to keep at it, we're back to the forum ban.

You've got a one month ban. At the end of that month, feel free to contact me at erikr@matrixgames.com and we'll discuss the forum rules and your return to the forum.

Thread locked.

Regards,

- Erik




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(in reply to Vincenzo Beretta)
Post #: 24
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