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Japanese TBs

 
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Japanese TBs - 12/7/2012 12:33:05 PM   
Chris H

 

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From: Bexhill-on-Sea, E Sussex
Status: offline 		Other than the Kates MAD capability in 1944 is there any other reason to produce them as well as the Jill.
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RE: Japanese TBs - 12/7/2012 12:42:46 PM   
n01487477


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Other than the Kates MAD capability in 1944 is there any other reason to produce them as well as the Jill.

For that reason, I produce them ... no other.

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(in reply to Chris H)
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RE: Japanese TBs - 12/7/2012 1:00:58 PM   
Chris H

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Other than the Kates MAD capability in 1944 is there any other reason to produce them as well as the Jill.

For that reason, I produce them ... no other.


My thoughts as well. Thanks

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 3
RE: Japanese TBs - 12/7/2012 5:03:58 PM   
crsutton


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Status: offline 		I would not expect too much from MAD anyways. Don't know if I would build a plane specifically for that capability anyhow. Frankly, the Japanese player's aircraft are very effective vs subs without it as long as they are well trained and used in numbers. As the Allied player in a long campaign, up until the introduction of the super E class ship in stock, 75% of my opponent's sub kills came from air dropped bombs. I think bomb load and range in an aircraft are far more important to killing subs than MAD would be.

My opinion anyways.

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(in reply to Chris H)
Post #: 4
RE: Japanese TBs - 12/7/2012 6:47:20 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Other than the Kates MAD capability in 1944 is there any other reason to produce them as well as the Jill.


Can't the Grace be used as either a DB or TB? Granted, she won't be available until later in 1944, but that flexibility is very useful, IMO. I will research her in order to have a late war option like this too.

But yes-the B5N2 is largely supplanted by B6N airframes when they become available.

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RE: Japanese TBs - 12/8/2012 3:07:03 AM   
PaxMondo


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Status: offline 		IJ MAD only adds 5% to ASW.  I have no documentation if 5% is big or tiny, but I really don't notice any difference between Helen 1a's equipped with MAD and Helen 11's on ASW duty in my games.  I see bigger impacts from pilot training.

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RE: Japanese TBs - 12/8/2012 4:46:29 AM   
crsutton


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Status: offline 		It really was not a very effective device. In order to be effective the pilot had to fly very low (10 meters) and the device could be thwarted by electronic counter measures. And to effectively cover a convoy six planes had to be sweeping ahead of the convoy at all times.

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Post #: 7
RE: Japanese TBs - 12/8/2012 8:11:56 AM   
SenToku

 

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Status: offline 		If ASW plane with MAD is wanted, wouldn't Ki-49-Ia be better? Longer range than Kate.

But I was wondering how to sink more subs by aircraft than surface forces? I seem to sink about 75% with hunter/killer surface groups.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 8
RE: Japanese TBs - 12/8/2012 8:34:57 AM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

IJ MAD only adds 5% to ASW.  I have no documentation if 5% is big or tiny, but I really don't notice any difference between Helen 1a's equipped with MAD and Helen 11's on ASW duty in my games.  I see bigger impacts from pilot training.


Pax, just out of interest, where did you get the 5% from? I never knew any value. Only a vague "it improves ASW a bit".

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Post #: 9
RE: Japanese TBs - 12/8/2012 8:39:37 AM   
Chris H

 

Posts: 2858
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Status: offline 		I'm only Nov 1942 so I have no knowlege of how effective MAD is.  From all accounts not very and there are other a/c with better range and bomb load out there that also have MAD.  I shall reconsider.

(in reply to SenToku)
Post #: 10
RE: Japanese TBs - 12/8/2012 2:43:39 PM   
sandman455


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Status: offline 		Since air ASW is directly related to long-term operations any increase in percentage of successful attacks will add up. I have no clue as to the percentage increase but even it it was just 1-2% better chance per attack, you are still going to compound this day after day, month after month. You might have a hard time seeing it within the game, but if you had the time to research the results the benefits of employing AC with MAD "should" be apparent over the long-term.

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(in reply to Chris H)
Post #: 11
RE: Japanese TBs - 12/8/2012 3:07:54 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

IJ MAD only adds 5% to ASW.  I have no documentation if 5% is big or tiny, but I really don't notice any difference between Helen 1a's equipped with MAD and Helen 11's on ASW duty in my games.  I see bigger impacts from pilot training.


Pax, just out of interest, where did you get the 5% from? I never knew any value. Only a vague "it improves ASW a bit".

In the editor ... under devices ... it shows "5" and I think I asked once if that was a constant or percentage and I was told percentage ... assuming my memory is working.


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Pax

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 12
RE: Japanese TBs - 12/8/2012 3:15:45 PM   
SenToku

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman455

Since air ASW is directly related to long-term operations any increase in percentage of successful attacks will add up. I have no clue as to the percentage increase but even it it was just 1-2% better chance per attack, you are still going to compound this day after day, month after month. You might have a hard time seeing it within the game, but if you had the time to research the results the benefits of employing AC with MAD "should" be apparent over the long-term.



I think range is more important than MAD. The manual claims that running long range patrol planes at shorter than max range will also increase chances of detection. B5N2 is short range plane, in ASW patrol you get 3.5 hexes of range, which means there is not much room for reduction. With longer range planes, such as G3M3 you can either cover larger area than Kate or same area with better chances of detection.

One question; Does running a ASW patrol at 0 - range work? Like defending a Port? If it does, I have finally figured what to do with F1M1s. Also, any idea how large the "increase of detection chances" really is?

(in reply to sandman455)
Post #: 13
RE: Japanese TBs - 12/8/2012 8:28:27 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3834
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

IJ MAD only adds 5% to ASW.  I have no documentation if 5% is big or tiny, but I really don't notice any difference between Helen 1a's equipped with MAD and Helen 11's on ASW duty in my games.  I see bigger impacts from pilot training.


Pax, just out of interest, where did you get the 5% from? I never knew any value. Only a vague "it improves ASW a bit".

In the editor ... under devices ... it shows "5" and I think I asked once if that was a constant or percentage and I was told percentage ... assuming my memory is working.



Thanks!

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 14
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