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RE: Bombur mod 2

 
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RE: Bombur mod 2 - 1/11/2013 1:08:45 AM   
Bombur

 

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Not sure, it seems the AI has troubles on how to use the new units. I think this mod is much better against human players.

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RE: Bombur mod 2 - 1/11/2013 2:18:02 AM   
Twotribes


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The ai uses algorithms to determine what to buy. It has to do with power and cost. when you make 6 infantry types he probably doesn't understand the concept and buys the one it thinks is the best for the price. Add in that your research is not linear with regards to types of units and the AI does not grasp the need for upgrades possibly due to how it functions.

In normal ATG there are 3 types of Infantry, Rifle SMG and paratroops. The AI does not use paras. And it seems to understand via set commands on its operation that it buys mostly rifle with some SMG. You have Light, regular and heavy Rifles and the same with SMG. Unless you rewrite the AI protocols it is going to pick one SMG and one rifle to build. It also builds paras so they must meet the criteria already established. Same with multiply types of armored cars. Or tanks. Or ships. The AI does not think, it follows the set commands it is given, build x percent of this based on this.

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Post #: 62
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 1/11/2013 10:35:29 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Not sure, it seems the AI has troubles on how to use the new units. I think this mod is much better against human players.


I get a rather strange enjoyment out of watching the AI stumble around in the research tree and unit builds. It's always sort of interesting to see what it does.



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Post #: 63
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 1/11/2013 10:36:54 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

The ai uses algorithms to determine what to buy. It has to do with power and cost. when you make 6 infantry types he probably doesn't understand the concept and buys the one it thinks is the best for the price. Add in that your research is not linear with regards to types of units and the AI does not grasp the need for upgrades possibly due to how it functions.

In normal ATG there are 3 types of Infantry, Rifle SMG and paratroops. The AI does not use paras. And it seems to understand via set commands on its operation that it buys mostly rifle with some SMG. You have Light, regular and heavy Rifles and the same with SMG. Unless you rewrite the AI protocols it is going to pick one SMG and one rifle to build. It also builds paras so they must meet the criteria already established. Same with multiply types of armored cars. Or tanks. Or ships. The AI does not think, it follows the set commands it is given, build x percent of this based on this.


I don't think Vic has been very open about the workings of the AI, he's set out some parameters which we're supposed to use, but honestly it doesn't really seem to be the right stuff to get the AI to change it's behavior.



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Post #: 64
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 1/11/2013 10:57:17 PM   
Bombur

 

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Any ideas on how to improve the AI towards a more rational management of units?

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Post #: 65
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 1/12/2013 11:17:06 AM   
Jafele


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I´m very sure Vic would love to improve the AI but...it is obvious that the dated publisher model for producing games will hardly ever see a big effort for the development of powerful AI . First, it's expensive, second very hard to plan and execute because it involves research that's difficult to integrate into road maps, and third it goes contrary to their business model. On the other hand I know a few people who have little to no interest in playing over the net. They see this as an abandonment of many companies to develop really good AI because they can now let players bash each other.

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Post #: 66
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 2/5/2013 1:24:39 AM   
Bombur

 

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Adding more units. Version 0.20 will be uploaded this weekend

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Post #: 67
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 2/10/2013 3:00:31 PM   
Bombur

 

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Renamed version to 0.15 and it was uplodaded yesterday. Added quite a few new units.

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RE: Bombur mod 2 - 2/16/2013 4:47:47 AM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Any ideas on how to improve the AI towards a more rational management of units?


I supopse a scripted probability of a free upgrade with time, increaseing in probability as the target era is passed ?



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Post #: 69
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 2/19/2013 1:43:46 AM   
Bombur

 

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It will be implemented.

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Post #: 70
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 4/2/2013 1:07:24 AM   
Bombur

 

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v0.18 uploaded. Already has 334 SFT´s.

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Post #: 71
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 9/29/2013 2:38:42 PM   
Bombur

 

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Version 0.30 uploaded. It introduced a big change, based on Human vs. Human playtest. Now, year based techs are given automatically to all regimes, according to current year. So, if the scenario is randomized to start in 1935, for instance, all nations will get the units created from 1930 to 1935. Currently, the game engine randomizes it to start from 1928 to 1938. Latter start will be possible in a future version.

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Post #: 72
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 9/30/2013 7:44:26 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Version 0.30 uploaded. It introduced a big change, based on Human vs. Human playtest. Now, year based techs are given automatically to all regimes, according to current year. So, if the scenario is randomized to start in 1935, for instance, all nations will get the units created from 1930 to 1935. Currently, the game engine randomizes it to start from 1928 to 1938. Latter start will be possible in a future version.


Nice, I'm going to give this a go in the coming days, any advice on setup or gameplay ?

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Post #: 73
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 10/1/2013 3:06:31 AM   
Bombur

 

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quote:


Nice, I'm going to give this a go in the coming days, any advice on setup or gameplay ?



-Use a map with some water, the naval part of the game is fun. On gameplay it´s more likely you will be able to teach something to me than the opposite.

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Post #: 74
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 10/2/2013 2:22:46 AM   
Webizen


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While trying latest version I discovered possible bug with 030: see below screenshot. After running blindly into the enemy unit, I restarted the turn and moved more units adjacent to test.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 75
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 10/2/2013 3:18:36 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

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I Believe that bombur removed the recon value of Infantry... to better simulate not knowing what happens in war. You should use cavalry to recon and recon planes... or the like...

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Post #: 76
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 10/2/2013 4:08:35 PM   
Webizen


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Hmm, not sure that is good thing. Infantry units always used patrols to have at least some idea that something was in front of them.

Update: I just edited infantry recon values back in. Easy fix.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I Believe that bombur removed the recon value of Infantry... to better simulate not knowing what happens in war. You should use cavalry to recon and recon planes... or the like...



< Message edited by Webizen -- 10/3/2013 12:55:51 AM >


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Post #: 77
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 10/3/2013 7:49:34 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

Hmm, not sure that is good thing. Infantry units always used patrols to have at least some idea that something was in front of them.

Update: I just edited infantry recon values back in. Easy fix.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I Believe that bombur removed the recon value of Infantry... to better simulate not knowing what happens in war. You should use cavalry to recon and recon planes... or the like...




It's a little problematic but the idea is, (I think) to encourage usage of more than just scads infantry. To allow players to branch out into the various sft's that the mod offers.

I suppose it depends on scale but infantry generally don't know more than a few miles what's around them, in close terrain even less.

I think it might be a slightly gamey tactic but you could get a 1 unit infatry sft and send them in, then watch the combat results screen carefully and you will get an idea for what's in the hex.

The big problem is the penatly for a suprise attack is huge and almost as if you just have to throw away units to see what's in there. I think the suprise penalty should be toned down a bit along with the reduction in recon.





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Post #: 78
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 10/3/2013 8:47:25 PM   
Twotribes


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Are there recon infantry? If not how does one make a none mech stack that can see around itself? I mean by 40 Calvary was out except in certain areas.

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Post #: 79
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 10/6/2013 2:33:13 AM   
Bombur

 

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No, but I´m considering to add it in the next release.

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Post #: 80
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 6/6/2014 8:53:13 PM   
Twotribes


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Ok some small problems with the mod that I have noted.

Several Japanese tanks and light tanks appear in the Italian not the Japanese production side. The German Cruiser Admiral Hipper is not really there and is set to block itself ( which works out since it is not really there). The German BF109D has a start date of 1939 which is the same start date for the 109E.
Ohh and Germany has no aircraft carrier capable fighters.

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Post #: 81
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 6/9/2014 3:41:31 AM   
Twotribes


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Another discovery, the German Fighter BF-109F appears on the list for production but links to the BF-109E so nothing is produced since the F supersedes the E.

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Post #: 82
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 6/9/2014 3:42:40 AM   
Twotribes


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Bombur I am loving the MOD glad I got it working again.

Question? Why did you leave the HS-123 as the Dive Bomber till 1943?

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Post #: 83
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 6/9/2014 6:17:08 AM   
Twotribes


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Found another. The french Brequet 693 is linked to the KI-48 descriptor and the KI-48 when produced.

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Post #: 84
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 6/14/2014 4:30:04 AM   
Twotribes


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Found another British Vickers MK VI tank is linked to German PZI

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Post #: 85
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 6/14/2014 7:06:06 PM   
Gregory Wilmoth

 

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May I suggest consideration of the following types for German aircraft carrier capable planes?

Fighter: Messershmitt Bf.109T. (T standing for Träger, or carrier.) According to William Green, Warplanes of the Second World War, Fighters Vol. 1 (c1960), p.148, the Bf.109T was a conversion of the Bf.109E-3, undertaken by the Fieseler-Werke in 1940.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109_variants#Bf_109T

Fighter: Messerschmitt Me.155. This was a 1942 proposal for a newer fighter when construction temporarily resumed on the German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin. By then the Bf.109T was out of date. Although detailed design work was finished by Sep 1942, no prototype was built or flown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_155

Torpedo Bomber: Fieseler Fi.167. Think of a British Swordfish biplane torpedo bomber with a liquid cooled engine. First flight in 1938.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fieseler_Fi_167

Dive Bomber: Junkers Ju.87C. Actually, the idea was to use it as both a dive bomber and torpedo bomber. First flight in 1938.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87#Ju_87C

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Post #: 86
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 6/26/2014 4:22:38 AM   
Twotribes


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The US is missing its Battleships all it has are New Mexico and Colorado. Also there is no American CA. Currently the British Northampton is the US CA. Also missing is the Enterprise class CV. I mostly play the Germans and am just now trying the US so I just noticed.

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Post #: 87
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 6/28/2014 7:24:11 PM   
Twotribes


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StugIII-F is linked to StugIII-B

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Post #: 88
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 6/30/2014 2:30:49 PM   
Bombur

 

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Thank you for all hints, guys, I will make some comments

1-The StugIIIF issue is fixed
2-The Northampoton was an American cruiser class, not a Britsh one
3-Fi-167 already included in the list, the other one will be added
4-Fixed the Bf-109F issue
5-The Bf-109D appears in 1938 now
6-Fixed the Breguet 693 issue
7-The T-34m.43 was linked to T-34m.41. Fixed
8-F6F was linked to nothing anc blocked itself. Fixed
9-Fixed the Admiral Hipper issue
10-F-94 was linked to T-54. Fixed
11-HP Harrow was blocking itself. Fixed
12-Fixed the Vickers MkVI issue

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Post #: 89
RE: Bombur mod 2 - 6/30/2014 8:27:56 PM   
Twotribes


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Found another the sdkfz 234/2 is linked to the sdkfz 231.

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Post #: 90
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