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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/3/2018 3:00:05 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 11152
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks for the information, gents.

If he was buried where he was hit, there is no way it was an aimed shot from "a federal musket in the valley." But, as noted above, perhaps a Union soldier took a blind shot knowing there were Confederates on the mountain in that vicinity. The only other plausible explanation is that a Union picket or scout climbed the mountain and fired an aimed shot from relatively close by, though that seems more unlikely.

Since it says he slept in his duty location before being shot, I think it unlikely that he was buried in the exact spot he was shot. Another man would have taken the duty position and Disney would have been carried to someplace more out of the way.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14131
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/3/2018 11:33:08 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 1084
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: online
So if you visit his grave does that count as going to Disney Land?

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 14132
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2018 1:50:00 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2717
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: Victoria, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks for the information, gents.

If he was buried where he was hit, there is no way it was an aimed shot from "a federal musket in the valley." But, as noted above, perhaps a Union soldier took a blind shot knowing there were Confederates on the mountain in that vicinity. The only other plausible explanation is that a Union picket or scout climbed the mountain and fired an aimed shot from relatively close by, though that seems more unlikely.

Since it says he slept in his duty location before being shot, I think it unlikely that he was buried in the exact spot he was shot. Another man would have taken the duty position and Disney would have been carried to someplace more out of the way.


"buried where he fell" will just be a euphemism to say he was not interred in a military cemetery and not necessarily buried exactly where he was hit.

On a similar topic, did anyone see the episode of Who Do You Think You Are? Episode 4 – Matthew Broderick?? This was a similar situation where Matthew was looking for a Civil War ancestor and describes how soldiers were temporarily buried before re-interment a few years later in a national cemetery. (Obviously not the case for poor George).

The show was interesting in that the research for the program identified Matthew's great-great-grandfather's grave who previously had been an unknown soldier (fairly common back then considering the record keeping).

Poor Matthew seemed rather oblivious of American history. (Not one of us at all...)




< Message edited by Reg -- 3/4/2018 2:25:46 AM >


_____________________________

Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 14133
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/4/2018 1:01:27 PM   
Bearcat2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearcat2

The 66th Ill [4 x Missouri Companies, 3 x Illinois Companies, 2 x Ohio Companies, 1 x Michigan Companies] the western counterpart to the Eastern Berdan sharpshooters, was present and they had around 150 of the Dimick Rifle [55cal, octagonal barrel], these were specialized target rifles. There is a difference between effective range and maximum range, Whitworth had a maximum range of 1050 yds, the Springfield rifle was 900 yds; do not know what the Dimick's maximum range was, but it was originally designed for long range shooting on the plains and very few were made. Most of the 66th at that time were armed with 16 shot Henry repeaters.




This shows 66th Illinois Infantry Regiment time frame on Feb.24, 1864 as being in Illinois:


"January 22, the men received four months' pay and $100 veteran bounty. On the 23d, left Louisville and took cars for Chicago, where they arrived January 28, and marched to North Market Hall, Here the Regiment received its thirty days' veteran furlough.

On March 3, 1864, the Regiment re-assembled at Joliet, Ill.,"

Although, that may just be part of the unit that had returned to Illinois.

https://civilwar.illinoisgenweb.org/history/066.html



You are correct, upon further review: the Ohio companies also went to Chicago, and then to to Ohio as their enlistment time was up.
It was the 1st Ohio SS Bn[3 yr enlistment-dec62'] that was present, the 5th Ohio SS company of that unit in 1864: "they were engaged in a protracted scout between the hostile lines in February"

Feb 26th 1864: "26 Weather pleasant and warm
report that our men had a
fight three mills this side
of Dotlon " - Diary of LaFrancis E. Hackett 5th Ohio Sharpshooters

_____________________________

"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 14134
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2018 1:04:50 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9565
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From: Maryland
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Hey Dan, a great article today in the Washington Post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/03/02/temporarily-insane-a-congressman-a-sensational-killing-and-a-new-legal-defense/?utm_term=.342415895aa8

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Bearcat2)
Post #: 14135
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2018 9:08:20 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1793
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
Awesome war.

The best to both of you.

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 14136
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2018 11:59:06 AM   
dave sindel

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Millersburg, OH
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Hey Dan, a great article today in the Washington Post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/03/02/temporarily-insane-a-congressman-a-sensational-killing-and-a-new-legal-defense/?utm_term=.342415895aa8


Very interesting article and story. Thanks for posting it.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 14137
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2018 12:15:56 PM   
MakeeLearn

 

Posts: 2924
Joined: 9/11/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearcat2


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearcat2

The 66th Ill [4 x Missouri Companies, 3 x Illinois Companies, 2 x Ohio Companies, 1 x Michigan Companies] the western counterpart to the Eastern Berdan sharpshooters, was present and they had around 150 of the Dimick Rifle [55cal, octagonal barrel], these were specialized target rifles. There is a difference between effective range and maximum range, Whitworth had a maximum range of 1050 yds, the Springfield rifle was 900 yds; do not know what the Dimick's maximum range was, but it was originally designed for long range shooting on the plains and very few were made. Most of the 66th at that time were armed with 16 shot Henry repeaters.




This shows 66th Illinois Infantry Regiment time frame on Feb.24, 1864 as being in Illinois:


"January 22, the men received four months' pay and $100 veteran bounty. On the 23d, left Louisville and took cars for Chicago, where they arrived January 28, and marched to North Market Hall, Here the Regiment received its thirty days' veteran furlough.

On March 3, 1864, the Regiment re-assembled at Joliet, Ill.,"

Although, that may just be part of the unit that had returned to Illinois.

https://civilwar.illinoisgenweb.org/history/066.html



You are correct, upon further review: the Ohio companies also went to Chicago, and then to to Ohio as their enlistment time was up.
It was the 1st Ohio SS Bn[3 yr enlistment-dec62'] that was present, the 5th Ohio SS company of that unit in 1864: "they were engaged in a protracted scout between the hostile lines in February"

Feb 26th 1864: "26 Weather pleasant and warm
report that our men had a
fight three mills this side
of Dotlon " - Diary of LaFrancis E. Hackett 5th Ohio Sharpshooters



Good find.

(in reply to Bearcat2)
Post #: 14138
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2018 12:25:43 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 16798
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Hey, thanks for the good info and thoughts, gents. There may be things I can use here, especially Bearcat2's find, right down to the weather on the day of the shooting!

Ross, that was an interesting article about Sickles. I knew he'd been involved in a shooting but didn't know the details, like he troubled marriage and Francis Key's son getting shot dead.

It seems that Sickles was a serial womanizer. That reminded me of another Yankee (ha ha) womanizer who was arrested and put on trial for his infidelities. Later, on his death bed, his final words were: "And now the great mystery." Does anybody know who he was without resorting to Google? :)

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 14139
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2018 7:09:19 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9565
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, thanks for the good info and thoughts, gents. There may be things I can use here, especially Bearcat2's find, right down to the weather on the day of the shooting!

Ross, that was an interesting article about Sickles. I knew he'd been involved in a shooting but didn't know the details, like he troubled marriage and Francis Key's son getting shot dead.

It seems that Sickles was a serial womanizer. That reminded me of another Yankee (ha ha) womanizer who was arrested and put on trial for his infidelities. Later, on his death bed, his final words were: "And now the great mystery." Does anybody know who he was without resorting to Google? :)



I had to look it up. Here is a hint for those who still have not checked google. "it was standard gossip that (he) preaches to seven or eight of his mistresses every Sunday evening.'"

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14140
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2018 7:17:08 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9565
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, thanks for the good info and thoughts, gents. There may be things I can use here, especially Bearcat2's find, right down to the weather on the day of the shooting!

Ross, that was an interesting article about Sickles. I knew he'd been involved in a shooting but didn't know the details, like he troubled marriage and Francis Key's son getting shot dead.

It seems that Sickles was a serial womanizer. That reminded me of another Yankee (ha ha) womanizer who was arrested and put on trial for his infidelities. Later, on his death bed, his final words were: "And now the great mystery." Does anybody know who he was without resorting to Google? :)



Sickles was a scoundrel and a rascal but not without some merit. He served the public all of his life with the occasional controversy thrown in until he died at a very ripe old age in 1914. Let's face it, our national history would be pretty boring without characters such as him to write about..

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14141
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2018 7:24:18 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 16798
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Wasn't it Sickles that advanced his Union corps, with no support on the left or right, at Gettysburg on the second day? If memory serves, his corps got chewed up and he lost a leg. This was the fighting around the Peach Orchard? (All of this from rather dim memory.)

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 14142
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2018 7:35:15 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 16798
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
I just did a quick Wiki read and confirmed those details and ended up reading a lot more about Sickles. The most interesting fact is that he received the Medal of Honor for his conduct at Gettysburg, some 37 years later.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14143
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/5/2018 8:56:25 PM   
Lovejoy


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Joined: 12/16/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
If memory serves, his corps got chewed up and he lost a leg.

Best part is that he had the leg recovered and donated it to the army medical museum. He would later visit it on the anniversary of losing it!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14144
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2018 1:18:56 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5112
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Wasn't it Sickles that advanced his Union corps, with no support on the left or right, at Gettysburg on the second day? If memory serves, his corps got chewed up and he lost a leg. This was the fighting around the Peach Orchard? (All of this from rather dim memory.)


As you've discovered, yes it was. Making it even more interesting is that it was the second time he'd made such a move: he also advanced his men and took a hill at Chancellorsville.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14145
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2018 1:40:13 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 1084
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: online
What about Earl Van Dorn another well known Civil War womanizer.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 14146
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2018 2:06:19 AM   
Lovejoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

What about Earl Van Dorn another well known Civil War womanizer.


Wasn't he also killed by an "aggrieved husband"

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Post #: 14147
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2018 4:44:14 AM   
JeffroK


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CR's quiz, quite a family lineup!!

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

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Post #: 14148
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2018 8:27:22 AM   
nicwb

 

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That's one of the things I find fascinating about the US Civil War - a lot of the generals were -for want of a better phrase -"larger than life" How many of the Confederate Generals were there who took umbrage at fellow officers who made insinuations against them. I think from memory there were quite a few who wanted "honour to be satisfied". And it was not confined to the confederates either. As I recall US General "Bull" Nelson was shot dead by another senior officer over some insult.

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 14149
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2018 10:11:56 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 16798
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Yes, Van Dorn was shot down by a jealous husband.

The officer who shot Bull Nelson was Brigadier General Jefferson Davis (no relation to the Confederate president). That happened in a Louisville hotel in late 1862 and didn't involve a woman. Davis didn't suffer any repercussions, apparently because the US Army was so desperate for experienced officers at that point. Late in the war, Davis was involved in a tragic matter. He had a pontoon bridge dismantled after his division (or corps, by then?) crossed it while advancing towards Savannah and before hundreds or thousands of escaping slaves could cross. The slaves were thus isolated and panicked when Confederate cavalry approached. Many died while tying to cross the river. Many others were taken back into captivity. It was an ugly affair that not many people know about.

Yes, Jeff, the man whose final words were "And now the great mystery" came from quite a family, and he had quite a career of his own.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/6/2018 10:12:17 AM >

(in reply to nicwb)
Post #: 14150
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2018 10:50:31 AM   
tarkalak

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I also think that detection played a large part in things. I'd had high levels of detection on his carriers for many days. And night search had spotted his carriers early in the turn of the carrier clash. In contrast, John didn't have any detection on my carriers until the day of the clash. That seems like an environment that would breed catastrophe.


I read the whole battle from John's viewpoint and it all reminded me of the Battle of Adranople (1205).

A part of John's carriers reacted and were ambushed like the crusaders. Even the lack of intelligence of the enemy force was there.

Sorry for the late replay, but I felt I should add a medieval battle with all the US Civil war ones. :)

_____________________________

We, the capable, led by the clueless, do the impossible for the good of the ungrateful. And we did so much , with so little, in so small time, that we are now qualified to make anything from nothing.

Konstantin Josef Jireček

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14151
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2018 8:32:39 PM   
AcePylut


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Excellent match, great reading, kudo's to both of you.

_____________________________


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Post #: 14152
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/8/2018 5:46:22 PM   
palioboy2

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Canada
Status: offline
I have had this AAR open on my phone for well over a year now, it is going to be very strange to close it.

Thanks to Dan, John and everybody else who contributed and taught me so much about the game!

< Message edited by palioboy2 -- 3/8/2018 6:10:43 PM >

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 14153
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/24/2018 10:08:40 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 16798
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
As the peace dividend continues, I've spent a lot of time in the woods. What I do in the woods stays in the woods. What I think about in the woods used to be John III, mostly. Not about his pasty white thighs and other Yankee-like proclivities, but what he was up to and what I'd find when I got home and ran the turn that was almost always waiting in the inbox.

So I did a ten-mile hike Thursday, on a cold, winter-like day with the wind whipping the mountains. Since I didn't have John to mull over, I waxed poetic. And knowing this audience is almost uniformly a fan of mediocre poetry, I want to share it with you:

SOUTH-FACING SLOPE

In shadows on Fort Mountain’s north side,
ice ribbons sprout from naked earth and curl back,
like wood-shavings hewn by a craftsman.
And in shade on Turkey Mountain’s lee side,
icicles drape a craggy woodland outcropping,
raggedy, like a forgetful man’s untidy beard.
The frozen wind whips each mountaintop,
tail-end of a nor’easter lashing the coast,
snatching warmth through shirt cuff and collar
and teasing between buttons.
But at noon, the sun smiles kindly
on the spongy leaf-litter cushioning
Double Knob’s south-facing slope.
An invitation is given,
unspoken, unmistakable,
to take a seat.
And I do,
for lunch.



< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/24/2018 10:10:47 PM >

(in reply to palioboy2)
Post #: 14154
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/24/2018 10:22:45 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 11152
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

As the peace dividend continues, I've spent a lot of time in the woods. What I do in the woods stays in the woods. What I think about in the woods used to be John III, mostly. Not about his pasty white thighs and other Yankee-like proclivities, but what he was up to and what I'd find when I got home and ran the turn that was almost always waiting in the inbox.

So I did a ten-mile hike Thursday, on a cold, winter-like day with the wind whipping the mountains. Since I didn't have John to mull over, I waxed poetic. And knowing this audience is almost uniformly a fan of mediocre poetry, I want to share it with you:

SOUTH-FACING SLOPE

In shadows on Fort Mountain’s north side,
ice ribbons sprout from naked earth and curl back,
like wood-shavings hewn by a craftsman.
And in shade on Turkey Mountain’s lee side,
icicles drape a craggy woodland outcropping,
raggedy, like a forgetful man’s untidy beard.
The frozen wind whips each mountaintop,
tail-end of a nor’easter lashing the coast,
snatching warmth through shirt cuff and collar
and teasing between buttons.
But at noon, the sun smiles kindly
on the spongy leaf-litter cushioning
Double Knob’s south-facing slope.
An invitation is given,
unspoken, unmistakable,
to take a seat.
And I do,
for lunch.


Not bad! But the lunch sounded a little pedestrian (in the commonplace activity sense). I expected you would be marvelling at the two faces of nature you just experienced. Still, it brings back memories of similar experiences and long forgotten images! Kudos!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14155
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/24/2018 10:37:11 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 16798
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Thanks, BB. This is a pretty unusual environment for poetry. A few probably like it or tolerate it, but most probably don't. If it doesn't provoke outrage, I'm probably doing okay.

On a second note, I've also been reading alot. I finished Rick Atkinson's Liberation Trilogy. As a whole they are exceptional: Army at Dawn is very good (Atkinson was learning how to deal with WWII campaigns). The Day of Battle and Guns at Last Light are exceptional. He'd honed his craft and knew how to go about writing both of them.



< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/24/2018 10:39:27 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 14156
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/19/2018 2:48:46 PM   
Schlussel


Posts: 328
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline
Kinda late to the party...okay really late.

Just wanted to stop in and express how much I enjoyed your fight against the evil empire. I began following this AAR after its return from hiatus and it was my daily addiction ever since. From the (always enlightening) off topic discussions, to your stream of consciousness narration, your AAR kept me coming back for more.


_____________________________

You say we're surrounded?
Excellent!
That means we can attack in any direction.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14157
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/19/2018 5:03:14 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 16798
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Thank you, Schlussel. I really enjoyed putting the AAR together for you guys - not only because of your interest in the game, but also for your willingness (or toleration) of those many fun tangents.

When the game ended, I expected there to be a "peace dividend" - far more time spent outdoors, reading and writing. That's exactly what's transpired. I've done a tremendous amount of hiking, much more writing, and the same or more reading (reading was the one activity that didn't suffer during my game with John III - reading is like breathing, for me).

I do miss the interactions with John and the challenge of the late game, but I'm enjoying the more relaxed pace too.

One of these days, I'll try to rope John into another match.

(in reply to Schlussel)
Post #: 14158
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