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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/4/2017 7:48:42 PM   
jwolf

 

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Are you worried about having so many Japanese bases behind your lines? The enemy ground units are -- more or less -- cut off, but the Japanese can move a lot of air units around pretty quickly, arranging for possible aerial hit and run attacks that could be damaging. I'm wondering if you plan to take, for example, Port Moresby and Darwin in order to get a more secure LOC between the Coral Sea area and the DEI. I guess what I am really asking is this: are any of the currently bypassed enemy bases so critical that you will at some time backfill them?

BTW I'm anxious to see Fun House in motion. It was very tense and enjoyable to watch your Big Tent op as your fleets went past certain "natural" objectives, ultimately into the Eastern DEI area.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/4/2017 8:00:23 PM   
Canoerebel


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The tension is between security and time. What bases did I need to secure a minimally satisfactory LOC? I eventually decided that Merauke, Gove, and Horn Island were sufficient, in addition to the big Allied airfields in NE Australia.

I've kept Port Moresby suppressed for months, but John has other big airfields in New Guinea, Darwin, Timor, etc. From time to time he's tried to use them against my fleets, but has gotten a bloody nose on most every occasion. I'm aware of the threat from those fields, so I try to arrange for proper protection for ships transiting the LOC.

I could try to enhance security by taking some of his remaining airfields, but IMO the time and resources allocated aren't worth it. Right now the war is to the front. I need to move as expeditiously as possible in that direction.

Eventually there will be mop-up operations, but only after events at the front persuade John that Port Moresby, Darwin, Luganville, etc. can no longer be defended. That point should be sooner rather than later.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/4/2017 10:02:48 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The tension is between security and time. What bases did I need to secure a minimally satisfactory LOC? I eventually decided that Merauke, Gove, and Horn Island were sufficient, in addition to the big Allied airfields in NE Australia.

I've kept Port Moresby suppressed for months, but John has other big airfields in New Guinea, Darwin, Timor, etc. From time to time he's tried to use them against my fleets, but has gotten a bloody nose on most every occasion. I'm aware of the threat from those fields, so I try to arrange for proper protection for ships transiting the LOC.

I could try to enhance security by taking some of his remaining airfields, but IMO the time and resources allocated aren't worth it. Right now the war is to the front. I need to move as expeditiously as possible in that direction.

Eventually there will be mop-up operations, but only after events at the front persuade John that Port Moresby, Darwin, Luganville, etc. can no longer be defended. That point should be sooner rather than later.

It also looks like virtually all those bypassed bases are very low on supply or have none - which means their bombers cannot transfer in and bomb very much.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/5/2017 1:01:03 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

It also looks like virtually all those bypassed bases are very low on supply or have none - which means their bombers cannot transfer in and bomb very much.


Plausible, sure, but how can you tell?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/5/2017 2:06:35 PM   
Canoerebel


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There are no guarantees, so precautions have to be taken. But I think the current arrangements allow for proper security while allowing the Allies to move forward more expeditiously.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/5/2017 8:21:35 PM   
Canoerebel


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3/18/44

Fun House: This operation caused me to blow a fuse in my cranium today. Way too much thinking and clicking and organizing. The troops are loading, but I can't yet say they are loading in good order. The fuse blew.

Not all Fun House ships are going to leave port tomorrow, as originally scheduled. But slower TFs, especially LSTs, are on the way or about to leave. Everything else is going to be bit of guesswork as the ports may be overwhelmed by all that's happening.

After all the hair pulling today, I'll know much more tomorrow when I see how many units loaded (or how close they are to being loaded). I think the major amphibious assault units will commence loading tomorrow - I'm saving them to last since they'll incur some disruption during the ocean voyage.

The carriers are six days from completing upgrades. By the time they do, I think all the merchants will have left (to get a head start) or will be ready to leave.

Despite these various logistical fuse-blowing activities, Fun House remains on schedule as far as D-Day. How can this be? Well, as Olivia Newton-John would say, "It's Magic."

DEI: John's making trouble in Celebes. He's going to be able to hurt Allied units bad over the next week to ten days. But then the sheriff will return to town and restore order. Actually, the sheriff has something else entirely in mind, but I can't whisper of super-secret things at the moment.

Burma: This was the good-news theater, as Allied efforts were successful and everything seems straightforward in this theater. I'm doing to John here what he may do to me in Celebes on a smaller scale.

John III: He should be scratching his chin and saying "Hmmmm." I don't know that he is, but he should be.







Attachment (1)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/5/2017 9:05:34 PM   
BBfanboy


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I'd say you got the necessary priorities right for the assault landings. The rest does not need max efficiency or detail management.
A suggestion- combat engineers are not needed all that much in the first wave because you cannot order a DA to take out forts in the initial landings. To minimize their losses I hold them back to land in the second wave - after the infantry and tanks establish the bridgehead. Then on Day 3 they are usually in good enough shape to work on the forts in a DA (with infantry and tanks of course).

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/5/2017 9:11:42 PM   
Canoerebel


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What about atolls?


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/5/2017 9:26:13 PM   
BBfanboy


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Atolls get you a shock attack and Combat Engs do not get to do much work in a SA (charging headlong at the enemy). They are much too valuable to expose in the open like that so that is why I suggested landing in a later wave. If that means they also have to SA, at least the established troops can be set up to join them and take on most of the fighting.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/5/2017 9:27:50 PM   
Canoerebel


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SigInt today shows 116th Div. inbound to Tarakan, a special base force to Manila, 1st Air Fleet to Balikpapan and 2nd Tank Div. to Pare Pare.

This is helpful information and is consistent with recent trends.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/5/2017 9:32:15 PM   
HansBolter


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I respectfully disagree.

If the atoll has a high fort level the engineers are essential in the first wave.

If you can't get odds to reduce the fort without engineers, you are also likely looking at a failed SA, which means you really, really need that first assault to at least succeed in reducing the forts.

I prep at least a combat engineer battalion, if not a regiment along with my division, tank battalion and artillery battalion for the first wave.

_____________________________

Hans


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/5/2017 11:28:46 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I respectfully disagree.

If the atoll has a high fort level the engineers are essential in the first wave.

If you can't get odds to reduce the fort without engineers, you are also likely looking at a failed SA, which means you really, really need that first assault to at least succeed in reducing the forts.

I prep at least a combat engineer battalion, if not a regiment along with my division, tank battalion and artillery battalion for the first wave.

This is contrary to what I have seen - combat engineers do not get much fort reduction done in a SA but often suffer severe casualties. And I have similar force makeup to yours. I expect the first SA to fail if the forts are high, but I get lots of replacement infantry and few replacement CEs. Anyway, would be nice to hear other's experience but this should be in the War Room or main forum rather than continuing in this AAR. I am confident Canoerebel will take appropriate action in accordance with his own experiences - I just wanted to mention a way to minimize CE losses initially in case he has not thought about it with all the brain frying organization he has to do.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/5/2017 11:51:07 PM   
Canoerebel


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I do appreciate the heads up. It'll give me something to chew on as I finalize targets, etc.

The targets are set and prep is mostly high, but the op has flexibility too. If John strongly reinforces at the last minute, I'll divert elsewhere. He has lots of troops in lots of places, but he has lots of holes, too. That can't be helped to an extent - he can't garrison everything - but there's a flaw in his defenses that he overlooked and that was in his control.

All combat troops commence boarding ships tonight. That's a day early, but I need to get troops aboard ship in order to see what's still at each base, what I haven't accounted for, and what ship capacity I have left. I felt immensely better once I entered the orders.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 3:28:06 AM   
Canoerebel


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3/19/44

The PTO is a swirling, violent vortex. See map for details.




Attachment (1)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 3:30:21 AM   
JeffK


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Possible hint for the next big invasion.

From Day 1, build up the bases on all Hawaiian islands, gives you at least 4 big ports which you can enhance with Naval Support.

I reckon the target is Iwo Jima, from memory you have intended to invade 2-3 times and "retargeted" your attacks.

_____________________________

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 3:56:37 AM   
BillBrown


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Iwo Jima is not enough for the armada he has. I think Okinawa.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 4:29:42 AM   
Lokasenna


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Why even land on atolls at this point?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 4:31:54 AM   
Canoerebel


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Question 1: I have fighter groups that are carrier capable but don't say "carrier trained." Should I be using them on carriers?

Question 2: I have VII Amphibious Force on AGC Rocky Mountain. Okay, where the heck does the ship go now? Does it go into a TF of its own (amphibious, "Do Not Unload") or does it go into the amphibious TF that's assaulting the targeted beach (and the AI knows the Force HQ remains aboard ship)? Or something else? It's been about eight years since I used one of these critters, so I've forgotten some of the details.

Comment 1: I just spent 200 PP changing out TF commanders, especially the important merchant TFs. Some of those guys had naval ratings in the teens. But some of my most important TFs didn't offer the chance to change out commander - there was only the one commander when I tried to pull up the screen of possibilities. Ouch!

Comment 2: John is pretty jazzed. I'm guessing it's mostly because of Celebes but partly because he knows something is up.

Comment 3: Fun House is very close to getting underway. Two carriers need five more days, but the rest of the fleet probably gets a head start beginning in two days. Good! Let's get this show on the road so that the click-fest can finally come to an end.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 4:35:37 AM   
Canoerebel


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I think Fun House exceeds 1,000 ships of all types, 40 carriers, eight or nine complete divisions + additional equivalents, and at least 150,000 men, maybe 200,000+. So it isn't an invasion of just an atoll or two, as Lokasenna points out.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 4:36:53 AM   
Canoerebel


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JeffK, right you are. I built Hilo large, so Fun House has used both Pearl and Hilo to good effect. But it would be nice to have Lihue and another base too.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/6/2017 4:37:15 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 4:57:07 AM   
Lovejoy

 

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I'm a very new face around here, and I hope it's not impertientent for me to venture a guess as to the target of Fun House. I've been reading aars trying to learn and this aar has been a thrill! Based on the size of your force, I think you're going to hit something hard and take multiple bases at once. That means a large target or a large chain of targets. The Philippines seems unlikely, as you might have tried to stage such an invasion from Australia. Burma and anything in the DEI seems highly unlikely. Since you're using Hawaii as a staging area, that seems to indicate central or north pacific. I venture that we might see a "Hokkaido Hurricane". Unless the reply to JeffK meant that we will see Objective Iwo Jima

< Message edited by Lovejoy -- 1/6/2017 4:58:53 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 5:10:57 AM   
Canoerebel


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Thanks for reading, Lovejoy. Glad you're enjoying the game.

In my previous game against John III (this was WitP around 2008), I invaded Hokkaido massively in December 1943. That turned out to be a bloody, crazy, wild ride that led to Allied victory.

And Hokkaido was the target for the Allied invasion in NoPac in June 1943 in this game, but I diverted at the last minute to the Aleutians.

So there is precedent for your hunch.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 5:19:14 AM   
Canoerebel


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You gents should have a hard time guessing where Fun House is going, although the possibilities aren't limitless at this point in the game.

Everything I've said about Fun House has been true ... but I haven't given the whole truth. And sometimes, truth in the absence of the whole truth can be misleading.

This was necessary in this case because I had a problem. It was the same problem that Stonewall Jackson faced on May 2, 1863. He had his Corps strung out on a flanking march. At one point - a landmark known as Catherine Furnace - the long line of II Corps would pass close to the Union lines. He detached a regiment to form a skirmish line near the furnace, and asked JEB Stuart to personally see to it's deployment.

The regiment chosen for that assignment was the 23r Georgia Infantry. The officer in command of that regiment was Col. Emory F. Best. His photo, which serves as my avatar, was taken a few weeks later, while he was a prisoner of war in Baltimore.

For the past seven weeks, I've feared a repeat of Catherine Furnace or worse. Thus I felt it best to stick to the truth, but not provide the whole truth.

We'll see if it works out better for me than it did for Emory Best (and Stonewall Jackson, who was mortally wounded later that day).
But

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 5:33:28 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Question 1: I have fighter groups that are carrier capable but don't say "carrier trained." Should I be using them on carriers?

Question 2: I have VII Amphibious Force on AGC Rocky Mountain. Okay, where the heck does the ship go now? Does it go into a TF of its own (amphibious, "Do Not Unload") or does it go into the amphibious TF that's assaulting the targeted beach (and the AI knows the Force HQ remains aboard ship)? Or something else? It's been about eight years since I used one of these critters, so I've forgotten some of the details.

Comment 1: I just spent 200 PP changing out TF commanders, especially the important merchant TFs. Some of those guys had naval ratings in the teens. But some of my most important TFs didn't offer the chance to change out commander - there was only the one commander when I tried to pull up the screen of possibilities. Ouch!

Comment 2: John is pretty jazzed. I'm guessing it's mostly because of Celebes but partly because he knows something is up.

Comment 3: Fun House is very close to getting underway. Two carriers need five more days, but the rest of the fleet probably gets a head start beginning in two days. Good! Let's get this show on the road so that the click-fest can finally come to an end.


1) Yes, if you have space.

2) TF of its own, same hex, do not unload. It must remain on the ship. A quirk of these is you can load them instantly in a port (a la aircraft units) without having to wait for it to resolve during the turn. Dock the TF, load the units, undock the TF, and cancel loading. You can verify that it's fully there by clicking on the unit in the ship. I suspect this is unique to this particular HQ, perhaps on purpose.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 5:35:06 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

You gents should have a hard time guessing where Fun House is going, although the possibilities aren't limitless at this point in the game.

Everything I've said about Fun House has been true ... but I haven't given the whole truth. And sometimes, truth in the absence of the whole truth can be misleading.

This was necessary in this case because I had a problem. It was the same problem that Stonewall Jackson faced on May 2, 1863. He had his Corps strung out on a flanking march. At one point - a landmark known as Catherine Furnace - the long line of II Corps would pass close to the Union lines. He detached a regiment to form a skirmish line near the furnace, and asked JEB Stuart to personally see to it's deployment.

The regiment chosen for that assignment was the 23r Georgia Infantry. The officer in command of that regiment was Col. Emory F. Best. His photo, which serves as my avatar, was taken a few weeks later, while he was a prisoner of war in Baltimore.

For the past seven weeks, I've feared a repeat of Catherine Furnace or worse. Thus I felt it best to stick to the truth, but not provide the whole truth.

We'll see if it works out better for me than it did for Emory Best (and Stonewall Jackson, who was mortally wounded later that day).
But


I've vacillated between thoughts that you're going for Luzon or upper Indochina. Luzon is more points, Indochina is potentially easier for you to use and cut off the belly of the beast (although Luzon does help accomplish the latter, it's somewhat vulnerable for a while).

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 8:18:50 AM   
Commander Cody


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I was originally thinking Marianas, as that would put you in B-29 range, but perhaps that's not dramatic enough. Also, four combat loaded divisions probably wouldn't buy much real estate in those parts. That leaves Luzon and/or Formosa, which offer plenty of possible invasion sites which are not likely to be well garrisoned. And yet, it sounds like you won't have all of your CV/CVL/CVE assets in the herd, which argues for something closer to home like Hokkaido. Either way, the operation will no doubt live up to its name.

I'd put that AGC in the Amphibious TF headed for the base that the VII Amph Force is prepping for. VII Force won't unload (I think it remains onboard until the base is taken), but it will help everything in that TF unload faster. I'm sure you know this, but I'd put a high land skill TF commander in charge of your crucial Amph TFs. That will also help them unload faster.

Cheers,
CC



_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 8:54:17 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Question 1: I have fighter groups that are carrier capable but don't say "carrier trained." Should I be using them on carriers?

Question 2: I have VII Amphibious Force on AGC Rocky Mountain. Okay, where the heck does the ship go now? Does it go into a TF of its own (amphibious, "Do Not Unload") or does it go into the amphibious TF that's assaulting the targeted beach (and the AI knows the Force HQ remains aboard ship)? Or something else? It's been about eight years since I used one of these critters, so I've forgotten some of the details.

Comment 1: I just spent 200 PP changing out TF commanders, especially the important merchant TFs. Some of those guys had naval ratings in the teens. But some of my most important TFs didn't offer the chance to change out commander - there was only the one commander when I tried to pull up the screen of possibilities. Ouch!

Comment 2: John is pretty jazzed. I'm guessing it's mostly because of Celebes but partly because he knows something is up.

Comment 3: Fun House is very close to getting underway. Two carriers need five more days, but the rest of the fleet probably gets a head start beginning in two days. Good! Let's get this show on the road so that the click-fest can finally come to an end.


Q1. Yes - they will operate nearly as efficiently as Carrier Trained units.
Q2. To prevent it unloading set it in a separate TF set to Do Not Unload, then set it to follow the main landing TF at 0 hexes.

C.1 You probably did not see an alternative commander for that TF because you used up most of your PP and all the commanders that might have been available were too expensive for your PP wallet.

C.2 John's recent deployments indicate he thinks you will extend your DEI enclave to Java or Mindanao. I think he will be surprised.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 9:12:31 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

You gents should have a hard time guessing where Fun House is going, although the possibilities aren't limitless at this point in the game.

Everything I've said about Fun House has been true ... but I haven't given the whole truth. And sometimes, truth in the absence of the whole truth can be misleading.

This was necessary in this case because I had a problem. It was the same problem that Stonewall Jackson faced on May 2, 1863. He had his Corps strung out on a flanking march. At one point - a landmark known as Catherine Furnace - the long line of II Corps would pass close to the Union lines. He detached a regiment to form a skirmish line near the furnace, and asked JEB Stuart to personally see to it's deployment.

The regiment chosen for that assignment was the 23r Georgia Infantry. The officer in command of that regiment was Col. Emory F. Best. His photo, which serves as my avatar, was taken a few weeks later, while he was a prisoner of war in Baltimore.

For the past seven weeks, I've feared a repeat of Catherine Furnace or worse. Thus I felt it best to stick to the truth, but not provide the whole truth.

We'll see if it works out better for me than it did for Emory Best (and Stonewall Jackson, who was mortally wounded later that day).
But


I've vacillated between thoughts that you're going for Luzon or upper Indochina. Luzon is more points, Indochina is potentially easier for you to use and cut off the belly of the beast (although Luzon does help accomplish the latter, it's somewhat vulnerable for a while).

My bet is on Marcus Is. (since KB is in the DEI now), Daito Shoto, Okinawa, Taiwan, and maybe Pescadores. Then grab as many of the islands from Amami Oshima to Taiwan as you can, including Batan Island and Itbayat Is. above Luzon. That is too many places for the number of units likely available, but as in your last operation you can take them or not depending on balance of forces and ability of troops to redeploy quickly (fatigue/disruption etc. permitting).

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 11:24:32 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

You gents should have a hard time guessing where Fun House is going, although the possibilities aren't limitless at this point in the game.



Okinawa.

_____________________________

The Moose

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/6/2017 1:08:02 PM   
Itdepends

 

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Its too big a force for a single island a definitely not an atoll. The target needs to be large enough to offer sufficient airfields to be mutually supporting or they can be suppressed too easily. Assuming that the marianas are still in Japanese hands, Taiwan would be too isolated. The southern Phillipines or Luzon is my guess.

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