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Playing with bombload filters and mines

 
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Playing with bombload filters and mines - 11/29/2012 5:57:27 PM   
traskott

 

Posts: 1154
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
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Hello

I'm playing with the bombload filters added on the new patches. I would like to know when assign less bombs but heavier and when small but lot of them.

If I want that plane can be used to airlaid mines, what filter should I use?

Thanks.

< Message edited by traskott -- 12/14/2012 5:56:35 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Playing with bombload filters and mines - 12/15/2012 7:46:03 AM   
inqistor


Posts: 1332
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: traskott

I'm playing with the bombload filters added on the new patches. I would like to know when assign less bombs but heavier and when small but lot of them.


Increasing number of bombs also increases number/chance of hits, so if you give lots of bombs - plane would be better in anti-ship role. Also you want to use bigger bombs, with better penetration, if plane should be used against armored ships.

Size of bomb does not seem to have much impact on destroying land devices, or damaging airfield (but it influences destroyed supply), so if you want plane to be used in ground support role give it lots of small bombs. I have used similar solution for LILYs. SALLY carries standard 4x250 kg bombs, but LILY 8x50kg, so it is obviously better for ground support, and have its usefulness, and is no longer poor SALLY version..


quote:

If I want that plane can be used to airlaid mines, what filter should I use?

No idea. Is there anything special set in original Scenarios? Maybe it is set in unit, not airframe?

(in reply to traskott)
Post #: 2
RE: Playing with bombload filters and mines - 12/16/2012 12:19:43 PM   
traskott

 

Posts: 1154
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline
Thanks inquistor!!

I will check the editor.

Looks like that a b-25/26 in antishipping role would fit well with standard load of 500 lb or 1/2 of 1000, but it can't be specifiec...

I will do some tests.

Thanks.

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 3
RE: Playing with bombload filters and mines - 12/18/2012 10:53:57 PM   
inqistor


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Joined: 5/12/2010
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There is generally several problems with anti-ship bombload:
1) It s hard to explain, why level bomber should be more accurate, than specialized Torpedo Bomber (they carry like 2-3 bombs)
2) There should not be difference between both sides (unless there was some radical aiming equipment difference). But currently BETTY carries 6 bombs, so no more, than 6 bombs seems OK.
3) 500lb is not enough to penetrate armored deck, but it is enough to sink Destroyer, and plane with lots of 500lb bombs suddenly becomes fast ships mass-killer.

I am currently changing whole Japanese side bombloads, and no plane carries more, than 4 bombs against ships (reported number for NELL). Actually BETTY carries only ONE 800kg bomb.

(in reply to traskott)
Post #: 4
RE: Playing with bombload filters and mines - 12/18/2012 11:42:00 PM   
traskott

 

Posts: 1154
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline
Interesting. I will begin with allied side soon.

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 5
RE: Playing with bombload filters and mines - 12/19/2012 11:43:07 AM   
traskott

 

Posts: 1154
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
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Hummm... I'm thinking even small bombs ( ie 60 kgs ) can be ship killer: A B-26 with 20 bombs of 50 kgs each over a PB/xAKL convoy can be a serial murderer... Even against DDs and CLs the fire dmg could destroy the ship...

(in reply to traskott)
Post #: 6
RE: Playing with bombload filters and mines - 12/19/2012 1:46:13 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 15032
Joined: 10/10/2005
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Actually, the standard bomb load of a Sally is 20x50kg bombs. The 50 kg bomb (about 110 lbs) was the pre war standard for JAAF. A Ki-30 carried 8 of them. So did a Ki-48 and a Ki-32 (the latter also could mount 2x15 kg bombs). It was the Ki-49 that introduced the 100 kg bomb as standard loadout. All of these loadouts are far more effective for ground support or airfield attacks than using a tiny number of 250 kg bombs are. In addition, they are far more historically correct, not only being typical, but in some cases, it is not even clear the 250 kg could be carried at all? A Ki-21 also could carry what amounts to an internal drop tank - a partial bomb bay tank which replaced 4 of its bombs. These 4 could STILL be carried, but externally, so only on short range missions (due to increased drag). [The tank held 500 litres of aviation spirit and increases the effective range of the aircraft, in game terms, by 3 hexes at normal and extended ranges, and by 11 hexes for transfer range.]

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: traskott

I'm playing with the bombload filters added on the new patches. I would like to know when assign less bombs but heavier and when small but lot of them.


Increasing number of bombs also increases number/chance of hits, so if you give lots of bombs - plane would be better in anti-ship role. Also you want to use bigger bombs, with better penetration, if plane should be used against armored ships.

Size of bomb does not seem to have much impact on destroying land devices, or damaging airfield (but it influences destroyed supply), so if you want plane to be used in ground support role give it lots of small bombs. I have used similar solution for LILYs. SALLY carries standard 4x250 kg bombs, but LILY 8x50kg, so it is obviously better for ground support, and have its usefulness, and is no longer poor SALLY version..


quote:

If I want that plane can be used to airlaid mines, what filter should I use?

No idea. Is there anything special set in original Scenarios? Maybe it is set in unit, not airframe?


(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 7
RE: Playing with bombload filters and mines - 12/19/2012 1:51:18 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 15032
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

There is generally several problems with anti-ship bombload:
1) It s hard to explain, why level bomber should be more accurate, than specialized Torpedo Bomber (they carry like 2-3 bombs)
2) There should not be difference between both sides (unless there was some radical aiming equipment difference). But currently BETTY carries 6 bombs, so no more, than 6 bombs seems OK.
3) 500lb is not enough to penetrate armored deck, but it is enough to sink Destroyer, and plane with lots of 500lb bombs suddenly becomes fast ships mass-killer.

I am currently changing whole Japanese side bombloads, and no plane carries more, than 4 bombs against ships (reported number for NELL). Actually BETTY carries only ONE 800kg bomb.



I do not think level bombers are more accurate than torpedo bombers. If they are, you can play with device accuracy to change that. They are certainly not more accurate than dive bombers.

However, I do think fewer bombs, which are larger and AP or SAP, makes more sense vs large ships. I do not agree that a 400 pound bomb cannot penetrate an armored deck. It depends on the deck. Accurate ship data often has rediculous amounts of deck armor. And also, there is a chance of penetration even of a big deck, just not a good chance. This because decks are rarely uniform, and because sometimes you hit things on deck that have secondary effects. Anyway - sometimes 500 pound bombs are nasty - and if you carry twice as many of them as you do thousand pounders - the trade off may well favor the 500 pounders.

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 8
RE: Playing with bombload filters and mines - 12/22/2012 8:14:57 AM   
inqistor


Posts: 1332
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

There is generally several problems with anti-ship bombload:
1) It s hard to explain, why level bomber should be more accurate, than specialized Torpedo Bomber (they carry like 2-3 bombs)
2) There should not be difference between both sides (unless there was some radical aiming equipment difference). But currently BETTY carries 6 bombs, so no more, than 6 bombs seems OK.
3) 500lb is not enough to penetrate armored deck, but it is enough to sink Destroyer, and plane with lots of 500lb bombs suddenly becomes fast ships mass-killer.

I am currently changing whole Japanese side bombloads, and no plane carries more, than 4 bombs against ships (reported number for NELL). Actually BETTY carries only ONE 800kg bomb.



I do not think level bombers are more accurate than torpedo bombers. If they are, you can play with device accuracy to change that. They are certainly not more accurate than dive bombers.

They are not per se, but they carry more bombs, so they have higher chance to score hit.
But bombs accuracy is something I have not thought previously. It seems to not have any influence for ground attacks, but maybe it is indeed used against ships?

quote:

However, I do think fewer bombs, which are larger and AP or SAP, makes more sense vs large ships. I do not agree that a 400 pound bomb cannot penetrate an armored deck. It depends on the deck. Accurate ship data often has rediculous amounts of deck armor. And also, there is a chance of penetration even of a big deck, just not a good chance. This because decks are rarely uniform, and because sometimes you hit things on deck that have secondary effects. Anyway - sometimes 500 pound bombs are nasty - and if you carry twice as many of them as you do thousand pounders - the trade off may well favor the 500 pounders.

I am saying solely from game engine POV. The more bombs plane carries, the higher chance of scoring hit. So if you are using only bombs (from no DB plane), and for example wants to close CV deck, you will do best just sending plane with more bombs. Which is hardly historical.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 9
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