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China Matters (geographic items of interest)

 
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China Matters (geographic items of interest) - 11/27/2012 10:13:06 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 14610
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Along the way some interesting things turned up:


A) The Yangtze had no RR bridge until 1956. This means all three RR "crossings" are wrong. The RHS map will turn them into "RR ferries" - minor RR for one hex. Stock like systems without "ferries" should have NO connection across the river at all.

A1) At Nanking, there needs to be a new town on the North side of the River. That is Yangchow - a river port, manufacturing center and resource center. Hex 90/51.

B) Ichang is in the wrong hex and on the wrong side! Location 378 should be named Kianging, and downgraded in terms of local industry (in RHS anyway where it has such).

B2) Ichang itself needs to be located (with all its assets) at 82/47 and put on the OTHER side - as a ROC location. This turns the location of several Chinese corps from an unsupplied and almost impossible to supply point into something far more sensible. However, the airfield potential of Ichang itself needs to be very low - about 3 - which is a change.

C) Location 410 was called Yangku until 1949. It was run by an unusual warlord, considered the most progressive of the species, named Yan Xishan. He cut deals at various times with the communists, the nationalists and the Japanese. His local industry was the only place in China that could make artillery. In 1945, rather than be repatriated, the IJA elected to stay, under his governance, and contributed to unusual economic growth in the area. Probably a "warlord" division, under Japanese control for the duration of the game, with him as commander, is warranted - a static unit unable to move.
Post #: 1
RE: China Matters (geographic items of interest) - 11/28/2012 11:43:34 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 2529
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: The deepest, darkest pit of hell
Status: offline 		I have been more radical in my mod and have changed the RR crossings into roads. Units in strategic movement need to be changed to move mode in order to cross. I think large units would need several days to get everything accross the Yangtze. Btw, I have used the "minor RR" to simulate the break-of-gauge on RR lines in Australia. And while we are at it - in Burma there was no bridge over the Thanlwin river between Moulmein and the hex to the north (Martaban - 56/54) until 2005, so the rail line north of Moulmein should be downgraded or interrupted (my solution)as well.

But are you sure about Ichang? It is on the east bank of the Yangtze and Japan occupied it in 1940, China counterattacked in 1941 but Japan managed to hold it until the war's end.

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WitP AAR "Six Years of War"

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 2
RE: China Matters (geographic items of interest) - 11/28/2012 3:44:19 PM   
witpqs

 

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From: Argleton
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quote:

I have been more radical in my mod and have changed the RR crossings into roads. Units in strategic movement need to be changed to move mode in order to cross. I think large units would need several days to get everything accross the Yangtze.

Because of the game mechanics the only way for an LCU to get back into strategic movement mode is if there is a base (dot at least) on the other side.

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(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 3
RE: China Matters (geographic items of interest) - 11/28/2012 4:16:40 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 2529
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: The deepest, darkest pit of hell
Status: offline 		Of course. I have added dot bases to almost the entire RR and road grid and "open" terrain in China. All "base slots" (220-1998) are being used. I have even "recycled" some of the out-of-the-way dot bases in French Polynesia in order to use them elsewhere. Could use two dozen or so more...

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Post #: 4
RE: China Matters: Adding point D: Changteh - 11/28/2012 7:12:18 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 14610
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		D) Changteh should be in hex 81/49. This is on the other side of the river. It explains why the main highway ends one hex NE of the stock location of the city?

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 5
RE: China Matters (geographic items of interest) - 11/28/2012 7:19:33 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 14610
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

I have been more radical in my mod and have changed the RR crossings into roads. Units in strategic movement need to be changed to move mode in order to cross. I think large units would need several days to get everything accross the Yangtze. Btw, I have used the "minor RR" to simulate the break-of-gauge on RR lines in Australia. And while we are at it - in Burma there was no bridge over the Thanlwin river between Moulmein and the hex to the north (Martaban - 56/54) until 2005, so the rail line north of Moulmein should be downgraded or interrupted (my solution)as well.

But are you sure about Ichang? It is on the east bank of the Yangtze and Japan occupied it in 1940, China counterattacked in 1941 but Japan managed to hold it until the war's end.


I am not sure about Ichang - in terms of who held it when? I am sure about its location - which is at the end of the road.

IF you are correct - lots of ROC units are not in the hex given in stock - and need to be somewhere else. Any idea where???

Do you have a 1941 situation map of the area?

Thanks for Moulmein.

I use change of gage between Russia and Manchukuo as you describe - either one hex of minor RR - or two half hexes - as in two of the three cases - the gage change was split - with a third rail for some distance. Yes - three - stock misses the Eastern connection - only having North and South connections. It also misses the connection between USSR and Korea - again with a gage change.

In Australia, since the RR are significantly different - I model the weaker ones as entirely secondary rail lines - with Australian Broad and Standard lines modeled as primary line. There are not many places where these two meet requiring a gage change - only one I can think of.

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 6
RE: China Matters (geographic items of interest) - 11/28/2012 8:30:16 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 2529
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: The deepest, darkest pit of hell
Status: offline 		On Ichang I have only bits of information from various websites, like the Axis history forum etc. It appears that Japan occupied Ichang in June 1940, then abandoned and reoccupied it in June 1941. The KMT counterattacked in September-October 1941, almost overwhelming the Japanese defenders who received reinforcements just in time (and who btw used thousands of poison gas artillery shells in this battle). This would explain the huge number of KMT troops still clustered arround Ichang in WitP in Dec. 1941.

Re railroads in Oz:

There have been four break-of-gauge between standard and broad gauges in 1941:

Port Pirie (plus narrow gauge RR from Broken Hill)
Tocumwal
Oaklands (branch line not on AE map)
Albury

Plus 8 or so others between narrow and standard or narrow and broad.

I also treat narrow gauge as minor RR and standard and broad as major RR, but have put one hexe of minor rail at break-of-gauge locations (which of course need to be added to the scenario).



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Post #: 7
RE: China Matters (geographic items of interest) - 11/29/2012 1:45:16 AM   
Skyros


Posts: 1164
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline 		This map has it on the east bank.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/china/txu-oclc-10552568-nh49-7.jpg


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RE: China Matters (geographic items of interest) - 11/29/2012 1:47:17 AM   
Skyros


Posts: 1164
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline 		Here is the source page.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/china/

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Post #: 9
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