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Which WW1 wargame to buy?

 
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Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/20/2012 4:29:28 AM   
Fascist Dog


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I have been keeping track of the new Commander The Great War game and I noticed that there are also two other WW1 wargames available here; The Guns of August and the AEGOD WW1 Gold games. Now, the more detail and complexity a game has the better for me, particularly with respect to combat resolution. Which one offers the best and most authentic WW1 experience for a grog?
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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/20/2012 7:29:58 AM   
wodin


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I have played GOA and WW1 Gold but only read AARs of Commander. So going by that I think if your after a indepth game that hits WW1 perfectly then go for WW1 Gold (it's probably my favourite grand Strategy game). However if your after a fun quick playing game then it looks like Commander is the game to go for.

GOA is a good game aswell but doesn't reach the strides of WW1Gold.

There is also SCWW1 which I've played the demo of and it's a game I'd prob buy over Commander only because it's more tactical due to having alot more units, though this will also mean it's not as quick to play as Commander.

As you want detail and complexity, it has to be WW1 Gold.

I'm sure many will say Commander as it does look good and a fun game, however it isn't really what your looking for but WW1 Gold is. I'm a WW1 obsessive and the way the combat works in WW1 Gold is to be honest genius the way it recreates the warfare of the period.

Go to the AGEOD forums and have a read. It's still having the odd little patch even today aswell.

< Message edited by wodin -- 11/20/2012 7:33:25 AM >


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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/20/2012 6:27:57 PM   
devoncop

 

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Hi.

My vote would be for Commander having tried the Ageod offering. Commander is deceptively deep and simulates a WW! feel with unique challenges on all the fronts.

The AI is also excellent.

Just my opinion........




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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/20/2012 8:09:52 PM   
berto


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Between WWI Gold and CtGW, which recreates the WWI experience most accurately and plausibly?

I'm not talking about scale, or detail, or graphics or "atmosphere" or anything else. Rather, which game "takes me there" and provides, from the top down, the most realistic "feel" for the conflict? (No fantasy, please.)

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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/20/2012 8:14:58 PM   
Perturabo


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Strategic Command: WWI has a demo. You can check it out.

Also, on tactical level, there's a new Squad Battles game. I haven't played it but it has quite interesting designer's notes.

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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/20/2012 9:02:43 PM   
wodin


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Again all i can say is I'm a WW1 obsessive..have a huge WW1 library. WW1 Gold hits the nail on the head. It isn't as easy to play as the Commander game though, but your asking for a complex game.

I think the WW1 gold manual is around to download somewhere..have a read..it's a big one and will give you an idea on how deep the game is.

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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/20/2012 9:37:13 PM   
Perturabo


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Does it have a demo? What makes it worth playing according to you? What are its mechanics like?

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 11/20/2012 9:38:41 PM >


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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/21/2012 12:04:16 AM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Again all i can say is I'm a WW1 obsessive..have a huge WW1 library. WW1 Gold hits the nail on the head ...


My two issues with that game is (1) it's graphics are unnecessarilly resource intensive and (2) that the English in-game messages are from badly translated French, although the English manual reads well.

Despite the above, it was a good sim, esp. its depiction of naval warfare, although I never quite mastered it.

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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/21/2012 8:35:36 AM   
Josh

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gfyfc

I have the same question  with u


/Reported as spam, it's in his profile.
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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/21/2012 9:08:07 AM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fascist Dog

I have been keeping track of the new Commander The Great War game and I noticed that there are also two other WW1 wargames available here; The Guns of August and the AEGOD WW1 Gold games. Now, the more detail and complexity a game has the better for me, particularly with respect to combat resolution. Which one offers the best and most authentic WW1 experience for a grog?


I've never played AGEOD's offering, and on Wodins recommendation I am going to have a look.
Guns of August is hugely under-rated, and CTGW is a great game, although on reflection I think the Serbian Army is a little overpowered.


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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/21/2012 12:38:15 PM   
parusski


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Go with Commander - The Great War. It is a lot fun. I beta tested for over a year, and when I was offered a discount for my time and effort I turned that down and paid full price. The AI is impressive, it is always surprising me and ruining my best laid plans. And I agree with JameyCribbs about the greatness of the tech. system.

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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/21/2012 12:49:19 PM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

Go with Commander - The Great War. It is a lot fun. I beta tested for over a year, and when I was offered a discount for my time and effort I turned that down and paid full price. The AI is impressive, it is always surprising me and ruining my best laid plans. And I agree with JameyCribbs about the greatness of the tech. system.


I am recommending parusski to the Pope for beatification for turning down his discount...Good Man!!!

I had the beta copy for review purposes, and liked the game so much I bought a copy 2 days after release.

Like parusski, I wholeheartedly recommend it. 9/10.

( Although Guns of August is great too!! )


< Message edited by Empire101 -- 11/21/2012 1:05:14 PM >


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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/21/2012 1:15:32 PM   
wodin


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I know you all love Commander..but FacistDog is a proper grognard..and he is asking for something that Commander isn't, thats a complex game.

Also after looking at AAR's it's more an abstract WW1 game than a true WW1 game..WW1Gold has alot of mechanics that keep it on the WW1 track including having todo big offensive during the year and planning for that it also gets combat down to a tee..and is at corps level so isn't as abstract as Commander. He wants a game thats detailed and complex when it comes to combat and WW1Gold has that over Commander.



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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/21/2012 1:18:01 PM   
parusski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

Go with Commander - The Great War. It is a lot fun. I beta tested for over a year, and when I was offered a discount for my time and effort I turned that down and paid full price. The AI is impressive, it is always surprising me and ruining my best laid plans. And I agree with JameyCribbs about the greatness of the tech. system.


I am recommending parusski to the Pope for beatification for turning down his discount...Good Man!!!

I had the beta copy for review purposes, and liked the game so much I bought a copy 2 days after release.

Like parusski, I wholeheartedly recommend it. 9/10.



Thanks son Empire101. You will someday stand in my stables. I also meant to give the game a rating and it is...9/10/

I have seen and heard complaints from beta testers before about not getting a hefty discount, (or even getting the game free)and that amazes me. IT is an honor to test a game. And you get all that extra free gaming in...some people. The experience of watching the game evolve, and throwing in a few suggestions, made an offer of a discount worth nothing to ME. ME that is, if you beta tested and could really afford those few extra dollars off, then by all means take the discount.

This offer is unique and kind hearted. I want to thank the folks at Matrix and Sltithere

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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/22/2012 1:17:21 AM   
radic202


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As part of the beta team for Commander: The great War (can mention it now as the game is released!) I must say it is a very good game. Hard as heck trying to dislodge entrenched units but fun nonetheless.

My biggest disappointment was the fact that the Canadian Military was not present at all as part of a playable part of the game. We were, like the Aussies in Turkey, Kiwis, East Indians, South Africans all bunched in with the Brits. Now I have nothing against the UK Units but Canada played a vital and very crucial role in WW1 that actually defined us as a true and true Nation but somehow the Devs decided that it was not important enough to single Canadians out for the valiant wins in Pashendale, Vimy Ridge Ypres etc...They did, only after I complained added a Volunteer Canadian Unit that you needed to transport from Canada overseas even though Canadian Generals were available for placement to our British Units directly from the very start of the war. To me a huge Historical flaw. Hence why I am still on the fence about purchasing it and I usually buy everything I can from Slitherine/Matrix. Probably will buy it eventually and this is more than likely completely bias on my part as well! The Devs can only do what they can with the tools they have but again many WW2 Games on the Eastern Front have Romanian, Croatian and Italian troops present, so I find it frustrating that Canada is not even mentioned.

But game wise, the game is a blast and well worth all your time and effort. I love the fact that you play the entire entente vs the Allies (depending of the scenario you chose) form Belgium to the middle east all at the same time. A good choice if looking for a WW1 Game.

< Message edited by radic202 -- 11/22/2012 1:18:46 AM >


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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/22/2012 9:32:51 AM   
Iain McNeil


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We understand the argument and agree these nations played a huge part in the war but its not practical from a gameplay point of view to add Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India etc as nations. They all played their part and each nation would argue their part was vital but by adding a nation you require them to have their own build queue, research tree, man power pool, ammo supply. It just wouldn't work. To satisfy a small minority we'd be completely breaking the game and we're not going to do that and I'm sure you can see why.




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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/22/2012 9:37:13 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

We understand the argument and agree these nations played a huge part in the war but its not practical from a gameplay point of view to add Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India etc as nations. They all played their part and each nation would argue their part was vital but by adding a nation you require them to have their own build queue, research tree, man power pool, ammo supply. It just wouldn't work. To satisfy a small minority we'd be completely breaking the game and we're not going to do that and I'm sure you can see why.



warspite1

Iain isn't there a compromise though? Not to have these as separate nations, but to enhance the counters in some future patch so that there is more detail on the counter. There is a thread started with suggestions. So a counter or two (whatever is the correct number) will still be British Green, will still be subject to British production etc, but there will be something to denote that it is a Canadian Army (purely cosmetic).

Just a thought - I hope radic202 buys the game - its brilliant - but I do understand where he's coming from.



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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/22/2012 9:52:13 AM   
Iain McNeil


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I think I misunderstood and thought a full separate nation was what was being requested so apologies. Yes those type of things can be done but only with units starting on the map so they are very much lip service. They do add a nice bit of flavour but would be quite a lot of work.

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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/22/2012 9:58:44 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

I think I misunderstood and thought a full separate nation was what was being requested so apologies. Yes those type of things can be done but only with units starting on the map so they are very much lip service. They do add a nice bit of flavour but would be quite a lot of work.
warspite1

Iain I do not know if that is what radic202 was proposing or not - but assumed it was a separate nation alternative - hence I said compromise. As I say, end of the day, imo these are nice things to have in what is already a thoroughly enjoyable, engrossing game that I would recommend to anyone.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/22/2012 10:00:25 AM >


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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/22/2012 10:50:41 AM   
wodin


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Not sure in a WW1 game it's really appropriate to have Canada and other commonwealth nations as a separate counter to be honest..It makes no real historical or Military sense to do so. Alot of work for little historical importance. At a lower scale then yes it would be OK but at Commanders Scale..doesn't really make any sense.

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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/22/2012 7:00:26 PM   
radic202


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Listen Gang and especially to the Devs of the game, I totally understand that it may not always be possible to add every "wish" to the game you are making due to the tools available in creating the game but for those who are maybe not as "literate" in Canadian Military History, it is very important to note that WW1 is what defined Canada as a Nation on it's own, completely separating it form it's "colonial hold" Great Britain and the wins and loses at Vimy Ridge, Pashendale, Ypres to name a few is what led to Canada finally removing it's "Dominion`status in the Treaty of New Westminster and formed a Nation of it`s own, no longer under the puppet control of the UK (some still believe we are though to this day!).

Discarding Canadians form WW1 or at least in this case practically making them invisible within the British High Command and Military is an affront to the WW1 Canadian Volunteer Veterans. Hence why it completely saddens me that no where can you see them anywhere or that there regiments are mentioned in the battlefields where they made such an impression. And the same could practically be said about the Aussies at Galipolli. they are listed as Brits as well. The suggestion by a Member here about adding a badge on the icon would be an acceptable alternative to me at least.

Again, please Matrix/Slitherine I am not angry over this just as a historian with 5 degrees and a Masters Degree forthcoming next month, I find this utterly heartbreaking that the Canadian efforts overseas in WW1 to be so unimportant in the game. The Americans are listed separately in the game and they lost much fewer men then the Canadians did. Heck ask the Newfoundland Regiment how many they lost. An entire generation of young volunteer men was lost.

I will eventually buy the game because of my loyalty to you all here but I know my dad and several of his Legion Friends whom I meet weekly for breakfast are definitely boycotting the game, One even said it is like the film Saving Private Ryan" where ONLY and ONLY Americans landed on D-Day and ONLY Americans were gallivanting around the fields of Normandy and ONLY the Americans fought the Germans for towns and bridges. The Brits, Canucks somehow stayed in the UK during the D-Day invasion as you never ever see any one else but Yanks in Normandy during that film no matter how many kilometers and areas they ventured in?

All the best to the Devs for a tremendous Game, just slightly heartbroken from my end.

< Message edited by radic202 -- 11/22/2012 7:03:12 PM >


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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/22/2012 8:21:02 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: radic202

Listen Gang and especially to the Devs of the game, I totally understand that it may not always be possible to add every "wish" to the game you are making due to the tools available in creating the game but for those who are maybe not as "literate" in Canadian Military History, it is very important to note that WW1 is what defined Canada as a Nation on it's own, completely separating it form it's "colonial hold" Great Britain and the wins and loses at Vimy Ridge, Pashendale, Ypres to name a few is what led to Canada finally removing it's "Dominion`status in the Treaty of New Westminster and formed a Nation of it`s own, no longer under the puppet control of the UK (some still believe we are though to this day!).

Discarding Canadians form WW1 or at least in this case practically making them invisible within the British High Command and Military is an affront to the WW1 Canadian Volunteer Veterans. Hence why it completely saddens me that no where can you see them anywhere or that there regiments are mentioned in the battlefields where they made such an impression. And the same could practically be said about the Aussies at Galipolli. they are listed as Brits as well. The suggestion by a Member here about adding a badge on the icon would be an acceptable alternative to me at least.

Again, please Matrix/Slitherine I am not angry over this just as a historian with 5 degrees and a Masters Degree forthcoming next month, I find this utterly heartbreaking that the Canadian efforts overseas in WW1 to be so unimportant in the game. The Americans are listed separately in the game and they lost much fewer men then the Canadians did. Heck ask the Newfoundland Regiment how many they lost. An entire generation of young volunteer men was lost.

I will eventually buy the game because of my loyalty to you all here but I know my dad and several of his Legion Friends whom I meet weekly for breakfast are definitely boycotting the game, One even said it is like the film Saving Private Ryan" where ONLY and ONLY Americans landed on D-Day and ONLY Americans were gallivanting around the fields of Normandy and ONLY the Americans fought the Germans for towns and bridges. The Brits, Canucks somehow stayed in the UK during the D-Day invasion as you never ever see any one else but Yanks in Normandy during that film no matter how many kilometers and areas they ventured in?

All the best to the Devs for a tremendous Game, just slightly heartbroken from my end.
warspite1

Two things. Firstly, and as said in my previous posts, I think it entirely appropriate that, where the scale justifies it, there are Canadian, Australian or ANZAC counters.

However I disagree with you on the Saving Private Ryan film. I have heard this argument so many times and, imo, it is plain wrong.

If the film was about D-Day generally then you could argue you should have the British, Americans and Canadians represented, at least in one form or another. BUT Saving Private Ryan was a film, personal to America and based on a true story. It was set against the background of the Normandy invasion - in the American sector - it was not about D-Day. There was absolutely NO NEED to mention the British or the Canadians - I have no problem with that at all.

That said, what really $%^*ed me off about the film was the line (I think by Ted Danson) where - surprise surprise Monty gets slated - pathetic. If you don't want to mention us, fine - but give the cheap shots a miss

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/22/2012 8:58:25 PM >


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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/22/2012 9:53:26 PM   
radic202


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Warspite1, I have so much respect for you so please don't take this the wrong way but firstly you are right about it being a personal American story set during the D-Day invasion but the D-Day invasion no matter how you look at it was a 3 country operation (US, Canada and the UK). Fine make it personal about one Yank or a group of Yanks that is fine but in the context of the story and setting us in Normandy, tons of British and Canadians troops were misplaced/miss-dropped or got lost into American zones and vice-versa the fact still remains that Spielberg made this film with a whole Bias pro-Yank attitude! Plain and simple. If he wanted authenticity? Then by all means somewhere, someplace they would surely have bumped into other Allied units or individuals or at least a mention that Canucks just cleared this area or Brits did they area or stay away form that area as the Brits/Canucks haven't even cleared that village form the Germans.

Heck I even heard that a Teacher in a large American city asked his students (15-16 years old) after they had seen the film what countries participated in WW2 as the Allies and especially during D-Day and they said Americans were the ONLY military that was part of the debarkation! I am sure that Canadians and Brit youth would answer the exact same if they were asked right after watching the film!

Sure you have heard this argument before and the reason is because from any military WW2 veteran, this film and as much as it wants to be authentic is by far too focused on being pro-yank that it missed the entire point of the D-Day battle.

I am not knocking the film as I find it to be one of the most powerful WW2 movies ever made, just that the part I am arguing about is the only downside to it for me.

Again, this is all based on differences of opinions and none of us is right nor wrong. Only wanted to share my opinion.

Now on the Monty quote you mention, I must have missed that as I can;t for the heck of me remember it, maybe a good time for me to watch it again next time it is on.

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RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/22/2012 10:07:03 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: radic202


Warspite1, I have so much respect for you so please don't take this the wrong way but firstly you are right about it being a personal American story set during the D-Day invasion but the D-Day invasion no matter how you look at it was a 3 country operation (US, Canada and the UK). Fine make it personal about one Yank or a group of Yanks that is fine but in the context of the story and setting us in Normandy, tons of British and Canadians troops were misplaced/miss-dropped or got lost into American zones and vice-versa the fact still remains that Spielberg made this film with a whole Bias pro-Yank attitude! Plain and simple. If he wanted authenticity? Then by all means somewhere, someplace they would surely have bumped into other Allied units or individuals or at least a mention that Canucks just cleared this area or Brits did they area or stay away form that area as the Brits/Canucks haven't even cleared that village form the Germans.

Heck I even heard that a Teacher in a large American city asked his students (15-16 years old) after they had seen the film what countries participated in WW2 as the Allies and especially during D-Day and they said Americans were the ONLY military that was part of the debarkation! I am sure that Canadians and Brit youth would answer the exact same if they were asked right after watching the film!

Sure you have heard this argument before and the reason is because from any military WW2 veteran, this film and as much as it wants to be authentic is by far too focused on being pro-yank that it missed the entire point of the D-Day battle.

I am not knocking the film as I find it to be one of the most powerful WW2 movies ever made, just that the part I am arguing about is the only downside to it for me.

Again, this is all based on differences of opinions and none of us is right nor wrong. Only wanted to share my opinion.

Now on the Monty quote you mention, I must have missed that as I can;t for the heck of me remember it, maybe a good time for me to watch it again next time it is on.
warspite1

radic202 no chance of me taking it the wrong way - as you say, its only opinions . The quote was something like "yeah that Montgomery guy - he's totally overrated".

HBO did something similar in that otherwise excellent series Band of Brothers. There were, iirc, two incidents where the British appear. 1. was when the Americans are talking to a "cockney sparrah", who speaks entirely in cockney rhymning slang....er....no one speaks like that...just no one..ever.. and 2. The Operation Market Garden episode where the British are depicted as the other stereotypical caricature - the mind numbingly dumb, upper-class toffs, who won't make the right decision because they haven't got the necessary authority Again, we are supposed to be Allies - WTF does that need to be in there??


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(in reply to radic202)
Post #: 24
RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/22/2012 10:43:26 PM   
wodin


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radic I think your getting confused over scale..Commande risn't really the right scale to seperate the units...not in WW1 anyway. Thye all fell under the same high command.

Unless you where making a game at a lower scale like for instance Vimy Ridge then obviously you'd have to use lower level units and canada would feature strongly.

Maybe it's best if the Allies where called British and Commonwealth forces...as historically thats what they where.

Some Africans could be annoyed that they are lumped with the French or Indians lumped with the British...etc etc..then you could have people from Germany wanting Saxon units or Bavarian units etc etc..

At a game this abstract and at this sort of scale I honestly see no problem and everyone would know those green counters compromised British and commonwealth troops..

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(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 25
RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/23/2012 1:10:48 AM   
radic202


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You make perfect sense woodin but this all started when (during a beta testing phase)they gave me a famous Canadian General to assign a Unit to (think it was Crerar but not 100% certain) and they had him listed as a British General. This irked me and started the entire "where the F**** are the Canadian troops kind of thing. This then had me question the authenticity of the Developers in understand how crucial Canada's role had been in WW1 and one thing led to another and so on and so on............So maybe I did go a bit overboard but what can I say "I am proud of being Canadian and very proud and honoured" of what our Veterans did for us/Canada during this great war and was looking for some kind of recognition for them. Anyhow I won't go back on it now nor would I even want to. If Romanian, Hungarian, Croatian and Italian troops can be sen individually in a Code Blue or Stalingrad Scenario? Than by all means I think Canadians should be seen when the historical significance warrants it.

Oh and your right warspite 1 about the "Band of Brothers" series. Again it appears (according to this show) that only Americans fought the Germans in Europe in WW2, except for some Brits with accents know one has ever heard of before??? LOL!

but here is a small food historical note: In Canada we can purchase Canadian cheddar cheese that is yellow in colour (probably can in other countries as well now) and the main reason for this is that Canadian troops serving overseas during WW1 in the trenches wanted real Canadian cheddar not the British cheddar, so in order to "nationally mark" Canadian cheddar for our troops and for it to be recognizable: it was coloured yellow instead of the traditional white so that Canadian soldiers knew for sure that it was cheese from Canada that they were eating and not British cheddar.

< Message edited by radic202 -- 11/23/2012 1:13:23 AM >


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(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 26
RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/23/2012 1:22:37 AM   
wodin


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Well thats different..the Generals should have their proper nationality.

yes Canada did have a big impact..the British boys commented on their physique and fighting prowess..

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(in reply to radic202)
Post #: 27
RE: Which WW1 wargame to buy? - 11/23/2012 2:35:24 AM   
Wolfe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: radic202
but here is a small food historical note: In Canada we can purchase Canadian cheddar cheese that is yellow in colour (probably can in other countries as well now) and the main reason for this is that Canadian troops serving overseas during WW1 in the trenches wanted real Canadian cheddar not the British cheddar, so in order to "nationally mark" Canadian cheddar for our troops and for it to be recognizable: it was coloured yellow instead of the traditional white so that Canadian soldiers knew for sure that it was cheese from Canada that they were eating and not British cheddar.


It might have been cheese but unless it was produced in Somerset, shipped to Canada, coloured and then shipped back again it wasn't Cheddar

Haven't bought CTGW yet but as we are comparing games in SCWW1 although they have the same crown icon as the rest of the UK and Commonwealth forces Canadian (and other Commonwealth forces) are named as such.


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(in reply to radic202)
Post #: 28
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