Matrix Games Forums

The Age of Shadows on Distant Worlds starts now!Paypal System UpdateDistant Worlds: Shadows Final Teaser!Distant Worlds: Legends gets Updated!Recruiting Testers for Commander: the Great War on Mac!Armageddon invasion starts in 2014Command Rommels Panzers in Battle Academy!Servers UpdateThe Deal goes Fourth!Command Ops gets a Massive Update!		 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Petraeus essay

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Petraeus essay Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Petraeus essay - 11/18/2012 4:22:58 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 2138
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Ya think this guy's got an axe to grind? Your opinions on his opinions please.





Attachment (1)
Post #: 1
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/18/2012 4:23:46 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 2138
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 2
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/18/2012 4:24:20 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 2138
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Not that I know for sure, seems like he waited til P was down to start kicking.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 11/18/2012 4:30:11 PM >

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 3
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/18/2012 4:39:13 PM   
Uncivil Engineer

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 2/22/2012
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		I only had to look at the name of the author to know the article was a load of crap. I didn't bother to read it, I know it's crap from his reputation. His grandfather was a corps commander under Patton in North Africa and Clark in Italy. None of his grandfather's good qualities passed through the gene pool.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 4
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/18/2012 4:44:47 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 2138
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Here's a link to a contrary opinion that sounds much more reasonable and well written. I'm not sure if I were the editor of the NYT that I would have printed this.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/11/17/petraeuss-phony-critics/

Perhaps IV should start picking his teeth with a loaded pistol.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 11/18/2012 4:48:30 PM >

(in reply to Uncivil Engineer)
Post #: 5
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/18/2012 10:37:01 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2025
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		Perhaps some where in the middle is the truth? I do believe that the military did the best it could with its hands tied with all rules that Washington placed on them.

_____________________________


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 6
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/18/2012 11:01:54 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		You guys want the NYT and PMS-NBC to tell you about your generals, you’ll get the generals you deserve.

Dave Patreus was a very good Bn and Brigade level commander; after that, he was nothing but Staff from 1982 on. Once the stars start falling, the Great Game changes radically.

(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 7
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/19/2012 3:10:09 AM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1201
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		The NYT should start coming with crayons. They've been in massive decline for decades, and I'm not sure they're journalistic integrity is much beyond the tabloids anymore.

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 8
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/19/2012 3:28:49 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 2138
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		As opposed to what? The WSJ used to be nearly as good before Murdoch purchased them. Perhaps the WP is better? Now and then maybe. The LA Times? They've cut back so much now the janitor has a column. The Trib? I've found that it scratches when you wipe yourself with it. The Christian Science Monitor used to be good, but I haven't been watching it for a while.

Maybe if you put the Times Picayune together with the Union Leader and the Des Moines Register you'd have something.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 11/19/2012 3:34:59 AM >

(in reply to The Gnome)
Post #: 9
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/19/2012 4:51:52 AM   
Commander Cody


Posts: 677
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: online 		Boy, not much passing on of the genes there. A disgrace to one of America's best generals. I prefer the article in Commentary.

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 10
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/19/2012 8:51:06 AM   
janh

 

Posts: 1140
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891
You guys want the NYT and PMS-NBC to tell you about your generals, you’ll get the generals you deserve.


Suppose so... I am a bit annoyed by this never-ending Petraeus story and the media. People make mistakes, so he did. From all I can tell, these were limited to his private life, though. Biology, biochemistry -- sometimes wins over brains. Maybe more often than sometimes, that's apparently how nature designed its survival. Nothing new, but obviously the thing that media loves to blow up more than anything that would actually matter for many more people.

What matters is that he stayed true to his professional standards and from what I can take from all the news and discussions is that he did not fail his country there. That this gets mixed up with his private life now in the media is beyond my contemplation.

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 11
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/19/2012 11:54:57 AM   
fodder


Posts: 590
Joined: 4/11/2010
From: Daytona Beach
Status: offline 		Not a fan of Petraeus, but IV should shove his opinion up his own ass.

_____________________________


(in reply to janh)
Post #: 12
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/19/2012 9:52:58 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1201
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

As opposed to what? The WSJ used to be nearly as good before Murdoch purchased them. Perhaps the WP is better? Now and then maybe. The LA Times? They've cut back so much now the janitor has a column. The Trib? I've found that it scratches when you wipe yourself with it. The Christian Science Monitor used to be good, but I haven't been watching it for a while.

Maybe if you put the Times Picayune together with the Union Leader and the Des Moines Register you'd have something.


The Times wants to be the paper of record, and smugly holds itself to that, so to me it must bear a heavier weight of the criticism. I think that holds true of the Journal as well, not to make it seem like I'm picking sides.

I never subscribed to the opinion that there was some Golden Age of Journalism. I think news outlets have always picked sides and spun things for their team, I've just never seen things so shallow as they are now.

That said, I read the Financial Times, cnn.com, and reason.com. The FT at least pretends a level of intellectual honesty, cnn is well, mediocre at best, and reason.com is my op ed page.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 13
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/19/2012 10:04:55 PM   
Natali

 

Posts: 96
Joined: 9/18/2012
From: Ocatillo Land
Status: offline 		Lucian Truscott IV has an agenda. Not hard to understand, but he puts it out there sharply. Some might object to his hyperbolic characterizations (I don’t, but I can see where others might), but his prose holds certain truths that are not diminished by the defects of the messenger. Not with respect to Petreus in particular, but our top leaders in general.

I am not a Patreus fan, not a Patreus enemy, not a Patreus anything. Never met him, but people who had say he was a good field grade commander. That’s good enough for me.

The Great Game changed with McNamara. When the stars fall, they fell on men who demonstrated management ability as well as combat competence. This has now gone much farther. The new rules under Richardson prized advanced Political Science degrees, and then there was Rumsfeld, Brown, and Weinberger, that collectively institutionalized a PoliSci Phd for a 3 star and up, and they all became politicians.

Their jobs are nation building, infrastructure protection, indigenous peoples protection, crap that State should do but don’t have a clue about. To be a three star looking to get to four star means you have to be a combination of a Corporate CEO and a US Senator, with all those bells and whistles.

Lucian Truscott IV is pissed, because he remembers a time when generals were commanders of troops, not political appointees. He remembers a time when his ancestor was a serious goddam general. Now a days, I think we should find those good combat commanders and freeze them and line them up along one wall of the Pentagon with a sign on each case, “In case of Conflict, Break Glass”.

Just MHO.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 14
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/19/2012 11:17:30 PM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 990
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		Col. David Hackworth (About Face) had a similar opinion to Natali's - that competent combat commanders should be freeze-dried and re-animated as needed. His point was that those qualities needed for combat command were incompatible with those needed to navigate the corridors of power in the Pentagon, DC, or diplomatic posts.

but once we started getting involved w/ foreign entanglements (say, Pershing & the AEF?), high command became more of a diplomatic task than a combat exercise. while competence in that 2nd arena don't guarantee ability in the 1st, i don't think it's a mistake to try to retain combat-capability as the 'stars begin to fall', but one must accept that results are going to be uneven.

i think Lucian Truscott IV might need to review his history a bit - generals are (& have always been) both political representatives & combat leaders. the American Civil War provides ample examples - Lincoln & Jefferson could've met at some hypothetical neutral site & exchanged horrifying anecdotes about command-assignments.

(in reply to Natali)
Post #: 15
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/20/2012 8:19:16 AM   
Admiral Mitscher


Posts: 122
Joined: 12/10/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Ya think this guy's got an axe to grind? Your opinions on his opinions please.



An axe to grind maybe.... or more probably the 'tall poppy syndrome', which always makes good copy.

Was General Petraeus a good theater commander, yes I think he was. But like most of our leaders, his good judgment didn't extend to all areas of his life.

He wasn't the first or the last to stuff-up, and maybe he was just showing some humanity, and perhaps we should too.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 16
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/20/2012 1:34:43 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1531
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
sorry friends, have to make a few points here

petraus' mandate


1) fight an illegal war on behalf of israel

2) kill 1 million iraqis

3) destabilize the region

4) start a sunni-vs-shia civil war among the muslims

5) piss off the us military, and bring about the next holocaust in 30 years

mission accomplished



i am jewish.

we used to let arabs look over our children.

there are a pack of retards in tel aviv (jewish people, if you can believe it are not all the same,
most of us work in management, our children go to college, and we build nations)

israel is a place where retarded jews go and hide after the anti-semites chase after them

one day, that worthless strip of desert will be the only place my grandchildren will be safe

and we'll be hiding behind our nuclear arsenal, and the right wing will have their wish fulfilled



_____________________________

"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 17
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/20/2012 6:43:34 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12018
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-NE ? "Cloud Coo-coo land"
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


sorry friends, have to make a few points here

petraus' mandate


1) fight an illegal war on behalf of israel

2) kill 1 million iraqis

3) destabilize the region

4) start a sunni-vs-shia civil war among the muslims

5) piss off the us military, and bring about the next holocaust in 30 years

mission accomplished



i am jewish.

we used to let arabs look over our children.

there are a pack of retards in tel aviv (jewish people, if you can believe it are not all the same,
most of us work in management, our children go to college, and we build nations)

israel is a place where retarded jews go and hide after the anti-semites chase after them

one day, that worthless strip of desert will be the only place my grandchildren will be safe

and we'll be hiding behind our nuclear arsenal, and the right wing will have their wish fulfilled



OK...ENOUGH! You've managed to take a thread primarily on the subject of leadership and turn it into virulent hatemongering diatribe that offends damned near everyone. Take it elsewhere! I've informed management . Hopefully this post will be locked soon. People have been suspended for a hell of a lot less than this!

< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 11/20/2012 6:45:57 PM >

_____________________________

"Don't hold yourself up as an example of what community members should aspire to. You have a long history of rude behavior, and you overract to the slightest provocation."
Amoral


(in reply to Commander Stormwolf)
Post #: 18
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/20/2012 8:04:42 PM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1325
Joined: 10/22/2008
Status: offline 		Stormwolf, you have issues dude...

_____________________________





(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 19
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/20/2012 10:50:51 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1531
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		i apologize for any feelings of offence

thread is off-topic, my post as well

i reserve the right however to criticize
the policies of my nation's leadership
and believe it would have been better
to concentrate on keeping the north-american economy strong
rather than outsourcing all their jobs to china
and force them to send their kids to fight wars,
that i feel are completely counter-productive

there was no antisemitism during the Clinton era

petraus did what he was supposed to do,
and sowed the seeds of a dark tomorrow



< Message edited by Commander Stormwolf -- 11/20/2012 10:53:36 PM >

_____________________________

"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 20
RE: Petraeus essay - 11/20/2012 11:18:31 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7045
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: online 		I've been watching this one since it started. I didn't say anything because y'all were behaving, though this was a very borderline topic for this forum.

This one went pear shaped and it's time to shut it down.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Commander Stormwolf)
Post #: 21
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Petraeus essay Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.179