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OT Need some ideas - 11/15/2012 12:50:47 AM   
DOCUP


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Lady and Gents

Wife is bugging me about Christmas Ideas.

What good games are out their? I like strat games. Tactical, Opearational, also production is good. Not into Sci Fi that much. Would like something similar to our baby here.

thanks

doc
Post #: 1
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/15/2012 3:10:51 AM   
tocaff


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Similar to this? Good luck as I don't believe there is any such beast out there.

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Post #: 2
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/15/2012 10:22:02 AM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


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Uh maybe Hearts of Iron. But like tocaff said, there is no similar game to War in the pacific.

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Post #: 3
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/15/2012 12:23:51 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4592
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Good suggestion.

It is a bit more high level than WitP, is 'slow' realtime, covers the whole conflict, every country is playable - so if for whatever reason you feel the urge to play
Columbia, go ahead.

It covers a wider spectrum than WitP, including a detailed research, social, political, and diplomatic system.

That said it needs a lot of governing events to keep remotely in sync with actual history, and the AI is somewhat dumb to downright suicidal (mostly when
tying its skills on the naval aspect of the game), but the really big weaknesses have been reduced in the latest addons.

I played the For The Motherland addon for a while and was quite impressed.


Alternatively, if the timeframe intersts you, Europa Universalis covers the same global scale but focusses on the developement from 14th to mid 18th century.
There is EUIV on the horizon now, but the release is not before 2nd or 3rd quarter next year IIRC. So you might want to wait for that.



That said Both games were never able to hold me in their grip like WiTP does. I guess that game spoils us all...

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 4
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/15/2012 1:45:59 PM   
Hermit

 

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It's unit level and not operational, but even though it doesn't exactly meet your criteria, it's such a good game that I highly recommend Steel Panthers Modern Combat. It started out as an MS-DOS game from SSI back in the 90's, but two of the developers and a motley crew of fans have redone it for Windows and kept it updated every so often. There's also a WWII version but I've only played the original DOS version of that one.

You can even play the regular game for FREE. It's got some useful tools in the paid version, and I'd encourage purchasing it just to help support the continued development. But I can't recommend a turn-based combat simulation game any higher than this one.

(in reply to DOCUP)
Post #: 5
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/15/2012 1:59:43 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4018
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Good suggestion.

It is a bit more high level than WitP, is 'slow' realtime, covers the whole conflict, every country is playable - so if for whatever reason you feel the urge to play
Columbia, go ahead.

It covers a wider spectrum than WitP, including a detailed research, social, political, and diplomatic system.

That said it needs a lot of governing events to keep remotely in sync with actual history, and the AI is somewhat dumb to downright suicidal (mostly when
tying its skills on the naval aspect of the game), but the really big weaknesses have been reduced in the latest addons.

I played the For The Motherland addon for a while and was quite impressed.


Alternatively, if the timeframe intersts you, Europa Universalis covers the same global scale but focusses on the developement from 14th to mid 18th century.
There is EUIV on the horizon now, but the release is not before 2nd or 3rd quarter next year IIRC. So you might want to wait for that.



That said Both games were never able to hold me in their grip like WiTP does. I guess that game spoils us all...


+ 1 for Europa. Never got into the HOI series...maybe I should try it.


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Post #: 6
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/15/2012 2:54:44 PM   
crsutton


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I just noticed some new American Civil War games on the Matrix site. Anyone tried these out? They look interesting.

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Post #: 7
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/15/2012 5:29:34 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I just noticed some new American Civil War games on the Matrix site. Anyone tried these out? They look interesting.


I can recommend AGEOD's civil war. In my limited experience, it's one of the best and most bug-free Civil War games out there.

< Message edited by Lecivius -- 11/15/2012 9:14:35 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/15/2012 8:48:47 PM   
Alfred

 

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Try the newly released X-Com. It should appeal to AE players even though they might not think of it as a similar game.

Alfred

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Post #: 9
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/15/2012 10:14:16 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4592
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Try the newly released X-Com. It should appeal to AE players even though they might not think of it as a similar game.

Alfred


Ok Alfred you got me. I like the X-Com series, but how do you reach the conclusion it should appeal to AE players? Just because it uses a turn based
system similar to WitP, or - as I usually assume when you post - is there some other underlying reason?

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 10
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/15/2012 11:28:09 PM   
Barny


Posts: 117
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Cities in Motion from Colosal Order
Barny

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Post #: 11
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/16/2012 12:18:53 AM   
n01487477


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barny

Cities in Motion from Colosal Order
Barny

I found it to be dry and deleted it quickly. Another wasted $10.

Ghost of Xmas future - WIF or EuropaVI

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Post #: 12
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/16/2012 12:36:52 AM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 4405
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I just noticed some new American Civil War games on the Matrix site. Anyone tried these out? They look interesting.


You don't know AGEOD AACW? One of the best games out there And yes, American Civil War. Enjoy.

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Post #: 13
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/16/2012 1:01:42 AM   
n01487477


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I have been toying with buying Alea est ... seems like a mid level game.

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Post #: 14
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/16/2012 4:26:40 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Try the newly released X-Com. It should appeal to AE players even though they might not think of it as a similar game.

Alfred


Ok Alfred you got me. I like the X-Com series, but how do you reach the conclusion it should appeal to AE players? Just because it uses a turn based
system similar to WitP, or - as I usually assume when you post - is there some other underlying reason?


Think outside the square.

1. It has R&D plus production. No more complaining from AFB that they are disadvantaged compared to JFB.

2. It has an overall strategic/operational game but also within it a very tactical level. No more complaining that you can't choose which ships to target or more importantly how much and what what type of ordnance to expend.

3. It has that "just one more turn" (also shared with the Civ series) urge but with the added benefit that a game can be completed within one's life span.

4. It is set in a "fantasy" environment. Just perfect for all those JFB who insist that AE is not sufficiently "balanced" to give Japan an equal opportunity to win a fair contest, and therefore come up with mods which proceed to correct the "imbalance".

5. It is an even purer form of role playing. No need to be stuck with poor leaders, the human player is the only leader at all levels. Better yet, no need to be restricted by such a finicky issue such as PPs. Yep, just a purer form of role playing than AE allows.

6. More room for micromangement in training. None of this AE abstraction regarding pilot training which is so limiting. Perfect for micromanagers, and aren't all strong AE players at heart dedicated micromanagers?

7. Provides a better political model than AE. Decide to pull a Sir Robin, no real political ramifications. Do that in X-Com and see the different national reactions to not being paid proper attention. Thus appeals to the more AE "historical" player.

8. Much more varied terrain conditions, makes for a far more "realistic" ground combat model. No need to argue whether 10 paratroopers dropped in a vacant 46 squared statute miles hex can cut off the retreat path of 100k troops. Nope, it just comes down to properly deploying and using one's squad, using tactics such as overwatch which simply are not available in AE.

Alfred

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 15
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/16/2012 6:50:14 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4592
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Try the newly released X-Com. It should appeal to AE players even though they might not think of it as a similar game.

Alfred


Ok Alfred you got me. I like the X-Com series, but how do you reach the conclusion it should appeal to AE players? Just because it uses a turn based
system similar to WitP, or - as I usually assume when you post - is there some other underlying reason?


Think outside the square.

1. It has R&D plus production. No more complaining from AFB that they are disadvantaged compared to JFB.

2. It has an overall strategic/operational game but also within it a very tactical level. No more complaining that you can't choose which ships to target or more importantly how much and what what type of ordnance to expend.

3. It has that "just one more turn" (also shared with the Civ series) urge but with the added benefit that a game can be completed within one's life span.

4. It is set in a "fantasy" environment. Just perfect for all those JFB who insist that AE is not sufficiently "balanced" to give Japan an equal opportunity to win a fair contest, and therefore come up with mods which proceed to correct the "imbalance".

5. It is an even purer form of role playing. No need to be stuck with poor leaders, the human player is the only leader at all levels. Better yet, no need to be restricted by such a finicky issue such as PPs. Yep, just a purer form of role playing than AE allows.

6. More room for micromangement in training. None of this AE abstraction regarding pilot training which is so limiting. Perfect for micromanagers, and aren't all strong AE players at heart dedicated micromanagers?

7. Provides a better political model than AE. Decide to pull a Sir Robin, no real political ramifications. Do that in X-Com and see the different national reactions to not being paid proper attention. Thus appeals to the more AE "historical" player.

8. Much more varied terrain conditions, makes for a far more "realistic" ground combat model. No need to argue whether 10 paratroopers dropped in a vacant 46 squared statute miles hex can cut off the retreat path of 100k troops. Nope, it just comes down to properly deploying and using one's squad, using tactics such as overwatch which simply are not available in AE.

Alfred


I should have known you really thought this through! Good points!

I was on the verge of buying, and adding your list it is even more tempting, but the graphics style doesn´t really appeal to me. I always had issues with games where either colors or modelling
lean too much in a cartoonish/comic/manga style direction. Will try the demo though.

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 16
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/16/2012 7:57:23 AM   
DOCUP


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Joined: 7/7/2010
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Thanks for the ideas guys.  Keep them coming.

I see a few possible games here.

I played HOI3 before coming over to AE.  I felt something was missing.  I found it with AE, it was the connection between your fav ship, pilot, plane and so on. I really enjoy the micromanagment of supplies, pilot training and such.  I enjoy finding a way out of a difficult situation.  AE provides different possiblities than most war games.  It also has more ways to get into trouble than other games but it's close to RL as a game can get.

Watching you fav pilot rack up the kills, waiting for your fav plane so you can give it to your fav squadron.  Sending your fav ship into battle and then watching the KB crush it.  The heartbreaks of a loss and thrill of a victory are much more in this game.  Other games you have units here you have pictures that identify the ships planes and such.  This game gives them a personality rather than just a number or name.

I'm just glad that I found this game.  Best game ever

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 17
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/16/2012 11:31:36 AM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP


I'm just glad that I found this game. 


Same here. This game spoiled me so much for other strategy games.

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Post #: 18
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/17/2012 8:49:12 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4592
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP
Would like something similar to our baby here.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP
I'm just glad that I found this game.  Best game ever



Well Doc, heres the problem. TBH I wanted to list a few games I enjoy, and then the "similar to our baby here" line hit me.

There is nothing comparable. WitP has riuned us to see any other PC based strategy game as worthy to be mentioned in the same sentence.
This is neither fair, nor healthy.

If you agree to drop the "similar to our baby here" line, I can reccommend a few more which excell in different areas than WitP, but those are none the less fascinating.


These would be:

The Total War Series:

The AI is crap, the strategic decisions are not very deep, but the graphics are sensational, the historical context is extremely interesting, there is a sort of epic feel to the game,
the realtime battles are FUN, the sound of soldiers marching across the battlefield hits you right there, and things like a lineage to follow, offspring to assign to different positions
to once enable them to lead the empire with competence is a fun minigame in itself.

I liked Empire TW the best, mostly because of the huge 16th-17th century naval battles with extremely (for a PC game) well modelled ships - see belows snippet.



Still, Shogun II and Medieval II are also well done.

Just don´t expect a simulation, or too much of a strategic/tactical challenge, it is rather a game to watch and enjoy.


Civilization Series:

I am still a big fan of em, although my interest dropped significantly with Civ V. The best and completest of the series I played was "Civ IV Complete" which basically had
everything a Civ like game should have. Politics, spies, religion, disasters, hundreds of units, a tech tree to drown in, pollution, revolts,...

Guess I don´t need to tell you about the game itself, just one thing: I have never found a game with so a high replayability factor as Civ.

Civ V should now be in the 2nd or 3rd addon phase (have lost tracked), but it just might be that they repaired those things they ruined on initial release (I was extremely
disappointed back then). Worth to take a look.



Distant Worlds:

I WOULD reccommmend Distant Worlds - also by Matrixgames - in its currently latest relaease, but you said you are not into Sci-Fi. If you change your mind jsut go over to their
forums and look around. In the AAR section there are a lot of "Let´s play" youtube links that give you a feel how the game looks and plays like.



Completely unrelated to strategy:

Make her buy you a World of Tanks premium account for a couple of months. Still playing and having a blast. Just recently ended a game by adding an arty to my final
6 kill tally. The arty driver obviousely did not know you can fall off kliffs, and I shot him out of mid air. Damn that was fun!
A couple of other WitP players are driving tanks through muddy terrain as well, and it really is entertaining to play.

It is also free to play, so nothing speaks against testing it before you decide.






_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to DOCUP)
Post #: 19
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/17/2012 9:03:55 AM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
I can recommend Combat Mission - Battle for Normandy. I just own the basic version not the expansion, but you could look into that as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnfkIkwYtJA

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Post #: 20
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/17/2012 9:20:06 AM   
inqistor


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Not that it is historical, but you should probably take a look at quite popular (but old) Dominions 3: the Awakening game.

It is fantasy setting, but you will not believe how rich this game is (and even AI is pretty good). Not great graphics, but it was done by only two Swedes, so what you can expect? I play it regularly for all this years (and it is quite quick to finish - at least in comparison to WITPAE )

(in reply to Cannonfodder)
Post #: 21
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/17/2012 9:46:26 AM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


The Total War Series:

The AI is crap, the strategic decisions are not very deep, but the graphics are sensational, the historical context is extremely interesting, there is a sort of epic feel to the game,
the realtime battles are FUN, the sound of soldiers marching across the battlefield hits you right there, and things like a lineage to follow, offspring to assign to different positions
to once enable them to lead the empire with competence is a fun minigame in itself.

I liked Empire TW the best, mostly because of the huge 16th-17th century naval battles with extremely (for a PC game) well modelled ships - see belows snippet.



Still, Shogun II and Medieval II are also well done.

Just don´t expect a simulation, or too much of a strategic/tactical challenge, it is rather a game to watch and enjoy.




The first release of Medieval total war + the viking expansion was the first game I played online.. And I played it a lot... Think I neared a thousand games played online. Ofcourse, I was a student back then ;).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omX0Enmfn3U

_____________________________


"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor


(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 22
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/17/2012 9:56:31 AM   
Itdepends

 

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The total war series, Victoria and Europa Universalis are all very good- once the fan base have put some mods together for them. EUIII Magna Mundi for example is a much more difficult campaign than the vanillan- and more challenging.

If you're looking for something WWII based- Silent Hunter III with the Grey Wolves mod is a challenge.

(in reply to Cannonfodder)
Post #: 23
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/17/2012 9:56:57 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4592
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
Bit off topic, but:

I always had difficulties with online games that required mix of fast strategic or tactical thinking combined with quick reflexes.

Against the AI in TW this is not an issue as you can pause anytime you want and the AI is rather dumb anyway.
Against a human I would get stomped over, crucified, mauled, and sent home crying. I am simply not good at it. I am not fast enough with the mouse
when I need to concentrate on multiple units.

For me it is either fast tactical/action gameplay while only controlling a single unit (I am quite good at that, thats why I am having a blast in
WoT), or really slow realtime or turn based strategy with enough time to think everything through (I think I am ok with that, that why
I play WitP).

But both combined, no idea why, it suddently feels like work and I am always one mouseklick behind.

Thats why I would suck at TW online battles.

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to Cannonfodder)
Post #: 24
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/17/2012 10:05:24 AM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Bit off topic, but:

I always had difficulties with online games that required mix of fast strategic or tactical thinking combined with quick reflexes.

Against the AI in TW this is not an issue as you can pause anytime you want and the AI is rather dumb anyway.
Against a human I would get stomped over, crucified, mauled, and sent home crying. I am simply not good at it. I am not fast enough with the mouse
when I need to concentrate on multiple units.

For me it is either fast tactical/action gameplay while only controlling a single unit (I am quite good at that, thats why I am having a blast in
WoT), or really slow realtime or turn based strategy with enough time to think everything through (I think I am ok with that, that why
I play WitP).

But both combined, no idea why, it suddently feels like work and I am always one mouseklick behind.

Thats why I would suck at TW online battles.


Isn't part of the problem age? I am just 32 but one of the reasons I quit playing "reflex" games online is because I am simply to slow now.. (Also, it is better to play strategy games if you got a 1 year old sitting on your lap, playing with the mouse). Or is it because teens and guys in the early 20s are born with a Desktop PC/laptop/I-pad/ whatever attached to them...

The exception is online flight sim. Yes you need reflex but you also need a cool mind and experience...

_____________________________


"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor


(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 25
RE: OT Need some ideas - 11/17/2012 10:22:28 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4592
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Bit off topic, but:

I always had difficulties with online games that required mix of fast strategic or tactical thinking combined with quick reflexes.

Against the AI in TW this is not an issue as you can pause anytime you want and the AI is rather dumb anyway.
Against a human I would get stomped over, crucified, mauled, and sent home crying. I am simply not good at it. I am not fast enough with the mouse
when I need to concentrate on multiple units.

For me it is either fast tactical/action gameplay while only controlling a single unit (I am quite good at that, thats why I am having a blast in
WoT), or really slow realtime or turn based strategy with enough time to think everything through (I think I am ok with that, that why
I play WitP).

But both combined, no idea why, it suddently feels like work and I am always one mouseklick behind.

Thats why I would suck at TW online battles.


Isn't part of the problem age? I am just 32 but one of the reasons I quit playing "reflex" games online is because I am simply to slow now.. (Also, it is better to play strategy games if you got a 1 year old sitting on your lap, playing with the mouse). Or is it because teens and guys in the early 20s are born with a Desktop PC/laptop/I-pad/ whatever attached to them...

The exception is online flight sim. Yes you need reflex but you also need a cool mind and experience...


Hm, good point, maybe additionally.

I agree that games like WoT (where situational awareness, patience, experience and a cool mind are equally important as quick reflexes), or flightsims
(even more those attributes mentioned), are an exception. In IL2 or WoT I have no problems winning over somebody who has a shorter reaction time than me.

I probably would lose big time in an average arcade first person shooter like Unreal Tournament.

Thing is, going back to TW and realtime fast paced battles, it has always been this way...



_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to Cannonfodder)
Post #: 26
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