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1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade'

 
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1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/13/2012 1:27:50 AM   
Michael T


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Can someone explain to me the process of the Soviet upgrade of Rifle Squads from 6/42 to 7/42. Looking at the the OOB it seems that the squads go from 11 man units to 9 man units. There is no new equipment. Simply a reduction in men. The construction cost of this "new" squad is 7. So does this mean that the Soviets have to absorb a Arm hit of ~800,000 pts when this occurs simply because they REDUCE the number of men per squad? Tell me this ain't so….its not really an upgrade is it. I hope the game handles this so called 'upgrade' a little differently to a real upgrade.

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/13/2012 3:16:59 AM   
Denniss

 

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No, all upgrades are handled the same way. You may dislike the Arm costs but may like the additional manpower gain. These costs are factored-in into the Arm factory setup/game balance.

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/13/2012 3:32:01 AM   
Michael T


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You can paint that any way you want. But IMO it is simply idiotic. Thanks for confirming it anyhow.

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/13/2012 11:29:52 AM   
morvael


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But if the devices (arms) are retained, maybe there is less cost than building a new squad from the scratch?

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/13/2012 12:59:09 PM   
jaw

 

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As Denniss mentions above, the arms point cost of these upgrades is "baked" into the system so the issue is unlikely to be addressed in this version. WitE 2.0 is another story.

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/13/2012 4:27:20 PM   
heliodorus04


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I imagine Germany faces similar issues, so it's all equalized in the meta-game.

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/13/2012 8:58:28 PM   
Michael T


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Maybe their all getting new uniforms, boots and a haircut. At least they will look good.

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/13/2012 11:52:28 PM   
gingerbread


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This is one reason why the ARM multiplier is as high as 1.3, see here.

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/14/2012 12:59:01 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Maybe their all getting new uniforms, boots and a haircut. At least they will look good.


No Stalin promises every soldier a new rifle ( no bullets of course), they come up 2 short per squad, so they shot 2 soldiers.

Problem solved.


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/14/2012 1:21:53 AM   
Michael T


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Go get your move done Pelton, you don't have time for this

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/14/2012 3:13:51 AM   
CowboyRonin


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I think the Panzer divisions go through the same sort of "upgrade" to their TOE multiple times during the game (and will do even more so when the 1939-1940 time frame is included). I haven't played the Germans, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have the same sort of "upgrade", albeit later in the game. It's just a way to spread a scarce resource farther without (hopefully) diluting the combat power too badly. Where before 100 men=9 squads, now 100 men = 11 squads. Bingo! More fresh reinforcements for the front!

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/14/2012 6:58:07 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Can someone explain to me the process of the Soviet upgrade of Rifle Squads from 6/42 to 7/42. Looking at the the OOB it seems that the squads go from 11 man units to 9 man units. There is no new equipment. Simply a reduction in men. The construction cost of this "new" squad is 7. So does this mean that the Soviets have to absorb a Arm hit of ~800,000 pts when this occurs simply because they REDUCE the number of men per squad? Tell me this ain't so….its not really an upgrade is it. I hope the game handles this so called 'upgrade' a little differently to a real upgrade.


Always try to find a positive

Troops no doubt take large experience and morale point hits in the process, so you have many more training opportunities for them

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 11/14/2012 7:00:01 PM >


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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/14/2012 9:44:33 PM   
Michael T


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I would suggest this ARM black hole is one reason why we see so many Soviet players getting smashed up very badly in mid summer 42 and spiralling down from there. There is another mini black hole around April 42 when they upgrade their 76mm field guns. Around 300,000 pts lost for a very modestly improved 76mm gun. This needs to be done better. It will have little impact on my game with Pelton where I am very rich but for Soviet players struggling to stay afloat this must be a big nail in the coffin.

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/15/2012 6:45:07 AM   
heliodorus04


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If you can do it against Pelton, what's to say it's any problem at all?
The game data aren't exactly short of Soviet victories.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I would suggest this ARM black hole is one reason why we see so many Soviet players getting smashed up very badly in mid summer 42 and spiralling down from there. There is another mini black hole around April 42 when they upgrade their 76mm field guns. Around 300,000 pts lost for a very modestly improved 76mm gun. This needs to be done better. It will have little impact on my game with Pelton where I am very rich but for Soviet players struggling to stay afloat this must be a big nail in the coffin.


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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/15/2012 7:49:16 AM   
randallw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I would suggest this ARM black hole is one reason why we see so many Soviet players getting smashed up very badly in mid summer 42 and spiralling down from there. There is another mini black hole around April 42 when they upgrade their 76mm field guns. Around 300,000 pts lost for a very modestly improved 76mm gun. This needs to be done better. It will have little impact on my game with Pelton where I am very rich but for Soviet players struggling to stay afloat this must be a big nail in the coffin.


The rifle division TOE changes four times by the end of 1942; when rifle squads are swapped out for a different version ( about a regiment's worth within a division ) the new squads can take a serious experience hit. The divisions are also understrength in manpower.

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/15/2012 8:57:47 PM   
Michael T


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quote:

If you can do it against Pelton, what's to say it's any problem at all?


My position against Pelton has nothing to do with any imbalance in the game. It's all of his own making.

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RE: 1942 Soviet Rifle Squad 'Upgrade' - 11/16/2012 9:24:16 AM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I would suggest this ARM black hole is one reason why we see so many Soviet players getting smashed up very badly in mid summer 42 and spiralling down from there. There is another mini black hole around April 42 when they upgrade their 76mm field guns. Around 300,000 pts lost for a very modestly improved 76mm gun. This needs to be done better. It will have little impact on my game with Pelton where I am very rich but for Soviet players struggling to stay afloat this must be a big nail in the coffin.


Michael

You should know better.

We have learnt from other threads that all the design team are Reds under the Microchip and that all rules favour the Russians. Your famous testing skills will no doubt mean that you soon will discover the hidden advantages to the Soviet player in all of this.

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 17
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