RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 11/25/2012 10:23:14 PM

JudgeDredd

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Well - he only missed 1 of 3. I wish he didn't have to use his AGM to suppress...but I couldn't risk EXTRA suffering more stress so early. EXTRA by far has the greatest amount of ordinance. Pure luck (bad) that he was targetted twice!

What I'm more worried about is having 4 bandits (plus another possible 4) being present and only 5 AtA missiles.

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/2/2012 2:21:16 PM

JudgeDredd

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I wanted to finish this mission today - but unfortunately I have man flu and therefore feel like death - and I have to put the Christmas decorations up - so I'll complete it sometime in the week

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/4/2012 8:36:41 PM

JudgeDredd

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Over Target - 2(x5)
Again I have to draw 1 Bandit at the beginning of each turn. So I pull a chit and it's No Bandit again...phew!

Jettison
Next is the Jettison Decision - I could choose SPIKE to jettison one of his 3 MK82's so he doesn't suffer a -1 penalty...but he has a +2AtA anyway...so I choose not to. I may need all the bombs I have

Fast Pilots Attack
BISON again has the opportunity to attack this phase as he is FAST. He fires his remaining AIM-9 at one of the Mig-21s in the Western Approach Area. The Mig-21 has a +2 on the top left corner - which means you add this to the dice roll. With that modifier and the +1 from BISON it means the roll of 5 is 8. The AIM-9 requires 6 or more and the Mig-21 crashes and burns!

I also have TEFLON's Situational Awareness which he gives to CRUNCH. He fires one of his AGM-88 at the SA-11 on the Eastern Approach Area. He needs to roll a 3 (4 for the AGM-88 and minus a +1 AtG modifier)...he rolls a 6...HIT! The SA-11 is smoke.

Sites and Bandits Attack
This time the enemy has a considerable number of attacks this time round. The 2xMig-21's and the SA-8B in the Western Approach Area, the SA-2 in the Northern Approach Area and the Mig-23 in the Target Area.

A Mig-21 attacks PLUTO. I choose not to evade or suppress because the Mig-21s require a 4,7 and 9 for a hit...4 being 1 stress. But with the -1 modifier from the Over Target Event Card and the -1 modifier from CRUNCH I'm taking the chance. A roll of 4 (2 modified) means a miss...not even any stress. Nice one.

The other Mig-21 attacks SPIKE. Again no suppression or evasion. A roll of 2 (modified to 0) means a miss.

Keep coming.

Next the SA-8B fires at TEFLON. Now TEFLON is my AtA guy with 2 missiles remaining...so I'm taking no chances. He evades. Two rolls of 2 and 4 (modified to 0 and 2) means the lowest is used and he misses TEFLON...TEFLON is a little stressed though (+2 stress for evading)

Finally the SA-2 locks onto COWBOY. The roll of 5 (modified to 3) is a miss.

It's been a lucky phase.

Slow Pilots Attack
Again even though CRUNCH has attacked in the Fast phase - that was by using an SA point - so he still gets to attack in the slow phase.

CRUNCH
He fires his remaining AGM-88 at the SA-13 site in the Centre Area. He rolls a 1 and with his +1 AtG modifier - that's 2...MISS!

TEFLON
Fires an AIM-7 at one of the Mig-21's. A roll of 1 (modified to 3) is a MISS! Damned Sparrows!

SPIKE
Fires an AIM-9 at the other Mig-21....a roll of 7 (modified to 8 - taking into account the -1 modifier for +3AtG weight points) is a hit and the Mig-21 spirals to the ground.

Pilots Move and Adjust Altitude
My pilots progress into the Western Approach Area and drop low - including CRUNCH.

Bandits Move
Bandits get to move. The Mig-21 and the Mig-23 do not have to move as they are within range of attacking the force.

End Turn
Right...advance turn counter

This is the situation at the end of Turn 2.

This is the state of my Squadron at the end of Turn 2

I made an error here - I randomly selected a pilot (using the dice) to be attacked by the SA-2...when the ONLY pilot the SA-2 could attack was CRUNCH because he was the only pilot who was high...and the SA-2 can only attack HIGH altitude pilots....you do have to check and double check and my only excuses for the few mistakes I've made is that I am doing an AAR so distracted and also I haven't played HL for some time

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 12/7/2012 9:25:44 PM >

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/5/2012 1:48:04 PM

JudgeDredd

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I should point out that there is a HUGE urge to re-roll when you roll badly because it's "luck" - even just one re-roll - but you must resist. You cannot say you had a fair game if you re-roll. ALL ROLLS ARE FINAL

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/5/2012 2:05:52 PM

vonRocko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I should point out that there is a HUGE urge to re-roll when you roll badly because it's "luck" - even just one re-roll - but you must resist. You cannot say you had a fair game if you re-roll. ALL ROLLS ARE FINAL

I know that urge. Every time I play Phantom leader.

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Post #: 35

RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/5/2012 2:40:13 PM

wodin

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Well all pilots still in the air which is good. Thanks JD.

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Post #: 36

RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/5/2012 4:52:06 PM

JudgeDredd

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I remember you saying one of your concerns was the AARs you read never seemed to have pilots hit (or killed)

It really depends on the player. Alot of players WILL roll again...maybe just the once - they would regard twice as cheating - but alot will still roll again. Secondly, alot of players will roll for suppression and use ordinance. That might get them off the hook for the current attack - but in my experience the number of aircraft you are allowed to take and the number of hits required on the target are prohibitive to using suppression alot (especially the number of times you need to) and if you do, then you're not going to destroy the target.

But you can also have a pilot downed, but get him back...depending on the SAR rolls at the end.

More importantly than that though is your ability to fight through a campaign quickly diminishes due to stress. Even if stress doesn't make you unfit to fly, it could affect your AtA and AtG modifiers - so it's a real tussle in choices. Sure - you might not lose alot (if any) aircraft over a campaign - but your ability to launch effective strikes everday is normally reduced...I've found myself at least once having to have an R&R day where no flights occurred - and that obviously affects your final score...so not a decision to make lightly.

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/6/2012 11:51:55 PM

JudgeDredd

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Keep looking...this will be getting closed off tomorrow!

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/7/2012 12:40:46 PM

wodin

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OK mate.

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Post #: 39

RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/7/2012 10:42:03 PM

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Over Target - 3(x5)
Draw 1 Bandit at the beginning of each turn again...so I pull a chit and it's No Bandit again...such a relief!

Jettison
Next is the Jettison Decision - No jettison happening here!

Fast Pilots Attack
BISON
He has no weapons...but there's nothing to stop him dogfighting. He swoops onto the tail of the Mig-21 and fires his 20mm cannon. A roll of 4 (modified to 7 with the +2 on the Mig-21 and the +1AtA attribute) means a miss...it was a long shot.

TEFLON
He uses his situational Awareness point to attack in the Fast Attack phase. He fires his remaining AIM-9 missile at the Mig-23 in the Target Area. A roll of 8 modified to (11 - his +2AtA modifier and the Mig-23 +1 modifier) sinks the Mig-23. He choose to attack the Mig-23 because it was the more dangerous of the two.

Sites and Bandits Attack
Because all my pilots are low - they are all vulnerable to the sites in the area they are in (Western Approach Area) and also the SA-6 in the Southern Approach Area, the SA-6 in the Target Area and the SA-6 and the SA-8B in the Northern Approach Area - and of course the bandit in the Western Approach Area...that' an awful lot of attacks...someone is going down - I can feel it!

Western Approach Area
SA-8B attacks TALON...he tries to suppress the unit by diving low and strafing...a roll of 2 doesn't cut it. He evades (+2 stress) and rolls of 1 and 2 (modified to 0 and 1) are misses! Damn - no need to have evaded!
S-60 attacks PLUTO...SPIKE dives low again to try and suppress tries to put the site off by dropping a MK-82...a roll of 8 (modified to 9 with his +1 AtG modifier) is a hit and the site shuts down...
The Infantry unit fires it's small arms fire at SPIKE. He strafes the target and a roll of 9 (modified to 10 with his +1 AtG) is a hit - and the infantry scatter.
The MIG-21 attacks TEFLON and a roll of 2 modified to 0 is a miss!

Southern Approach Area
The SA-6 opens up and attacks TALON - no aircraft carry weapons...so none can suppress. IF he tries to evade I force a +2 stress on him...and that would push him into SHAKEN and would give him a -2 AtG modifier. So I'm going to take a chance here....he's oblivious to the lock and the launch...and a roll of 1 means a miss and he'll never know!

Target Area
The SA-6 here locks onto TALON (unlucky SOB!)...a roll of 8 (modified to 6 with -1 from CRUNCH and -1 from the EVent Card) means he suffers 1 stress

Northern Approach Area
The SA-6 (damn them) opens up on SPIKE. He goes evasive and rolls of 1 and 5 modified to -1 and 3 means a miss
The SA-8B locks onto BISON. He goes evasive and rolls of 5 and 7 modified to 3 and 5 also means a miss.

We were very lucky that phase...but my squadron are accumulating stress at a considerable rate!

Slow Pilots Attack
Well...I don't want to waste ammo - so I only really want to attack the units that threaten me over the target.

COWBOY
He drops a MK-20 against the SA-8B. Because that is a soft target, the MK-20 gets a +5 on the roll. A roll of 2 modified to 9 (+5 and his +2 AtG) is a hit and the SA-8B is toast!

SPIKE
Fires his remaining AIM-9 at the Mig-21...and a roll of 2 modified to 6 (his +2AtG modifier and the +2 modifier on the Mig-21) sees the Sidewinder smash into the tail of the bandit - and down it goes

As I said - I only want to eliminate any threats to me over the target - and that is done...so I'll keep my weapons stowed for the target.

Pilots Move and Adjust Altitude
All my pilots progress into the Target Area and stay low.

Bandits Move
No bandits. I have to say I've been lucky. There were alot of bandits over the target AND the possibility of 1 extra per turn...it could've been nasty!

End Turn
Right...advance turn counter

This is the situation at the end of Turn 3.

This is the state of my Squadron at the end of Turn 3

Attack on the target is imminent!

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/7/2012 11:49:01 PM

JudgeDredd

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Over Target - 4(x5)
Draw 1 Bandit at the beginning of each turn again...so I pull a chit and it's...DAMN! A Mig-29 has shown up!

Jettison
Next is the Jettison Decision - No jettison happening here!

Fast Pilots Attack
BISON
He manouvres across the skies and gets in position for a quick burst of 20mm against the Mig-29...a roll of 6 modified to 8 is not good enough!

TEFLON
Again TEFLON uses his situational Awareness point to attack in the Fast Attack phase. He has the Mig-29 in his sights and fires his deadly 20mm cannon...a roll of 7 modified to 9 for TEFLON is not good enough and the Mig-29 sweeps to the side, skyward and falls...

Sites and Bandits Attack

Southern Approach Area
The SA-6 targets EXTRA. He has a mass of weapons...if I lose him it could be all over. And I can't afford to go evasive either because he already has +3 stress and is on the verge of SHAKEN! A roll of 7 modified to 5 is +1 stress...he's officially shaken and not only loses his +1 AtG modifier but GAINS a -1 AtG modifier!! DAMN!

Northern Approach Area
The SA-6 attacks BISON. BISON sweeps in for a strafe and a roll of 10 modified to 7 (-3AtG) means he misses. The SA-6 fires and a roll of 8 modified to 6 is a direct hit...severe damage! If he had any weapons or pods, they would all be lost. Another hit and he's lost (until the SAR phase at the end).

The SA-8B locks onto CRUNCH. A roll of 1 is a total fail! No hit!

Target Area
The SA-6 here opens up on CRUNCH. COWBOY drops down and releases a MK-20. A roll of 4 +5 modifier and +2AtG is a hit and the site is suppressed.

The SA-13 attacks TEFLON. TALON dives and drops a MK-20...a roll of 5 with +5 is a hit...the site is suppressed.

The Mig-29 swoops in for a shot on BISON. A roll of 9 modified to 7 is a hit. HE'S DOWN! I'll have to roll for SAR at the end to see if he gets rescued or if he's lost!
why didn't I go evasive? Because I took the risk - it's about looking at the risk and hoping for the right result - because in a campaign you simply can't just add stress to the pilots...sometimes (in a campaign) you have to take the chance. It would have been very easy for me to play this as "1 mission" and not take any risks - but the campaign is full of calculated risks...looking at the stats of the MIG-29 I only really expected a stress point because I had a -2 modifier

Slow Pilots Attack
EXTRA
Drops his MK-83s on the target and modified rolls of 9, 10, 4, 10 and 6 results in 9 hits! Brilliant! 9 out of a possible 15...better than I thought.

COWBOY
Takes a neat angle of attack towards the target and releases 4xMK-82s...modified rolls of 8, 7, 3 and 7 mean another 3 hits.

TALON
Drops down low and releases his 4xMK-82s...modified rolls of 7, 9, 6 and 8 results in another 3 hits. The target is bellowing in smoke and consumed by fire - it's completely destroyed!

TEFLON
He tries for another shot on the MIG-29 - a modified roll of 11 is a hit on the MIG - it's crashes to earth!

I have to say - that was easier than I thought it would be. I was pretty lucky in my rolls. My pilots have suffered considerable stress and I've possibly lost one though!

Pilots Move and Adjust Altitude
My pilots need to take the easiest route out - and that looks like egressing out the Western Approach Area. They go high and head off west.

Bandits Move
No bandits.

End Turn
Right...advance turn counter

This is the situation at the end of Turn 4.

This is the state of my Squadron at the end of Turn 4

I could still lose pilots here!

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 12/7/2012 11:53:42 PM >

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/8/2012 12:08:10 AM

JudgeDredd

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Over Target - 5(x5)
Again I have to draw 1 Bandit at the beginning of each turn...so I pull a chit and it's NO BANDIT!

Jettison
Next is the Jettison Decision - No jettison happening here!

Fast Pilots Attack
I have a Fast pilot and I also have TEFLON's SA - but all my aircraft are High and I have no weapons that I can release at High Altitude...so no attacks this phase.

Sites and Bandits Attack

Northern Approach Area
The SA-2 attacks COWBOY. Looking at the required rolls for the SA-2 I make an educated call and do not go evasive. A roll of 5 modified to 3 is a miss.

The SA-8B launches at COWBOY...a roll of 8 modified to 6 means he's stressed - 1 Stress Point.

Slow Pilots Attack
Again I have no pilots or weapons in a position to attack....so I'm just bailing!

Pilots Move and Adjust Altitude
My pilots move into the Western Pre-Approach Area and out of danger by staying High

Bandits Move
No bandits.

End Turn
Right...advance turn counter

This is the situation at the end of Turn 4.

This is the state of my Squadron at the end of Turn 4

I actually can't believe how many munitions I had left - I have seldom returned from a mission with that amount of ordinance!

I could still lose pilots here!

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/8/2012 12:46:58 AM

wodin

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Good work mate.

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/8/2012 12:59:10 AM

JudgeDredd

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So - the roundup!

Home Bound

Home Bound Event Card
I have to draw an event card and obey the bottom section of the card...and it's good news - Shore Leave - remove 2 stress from every pilot in the squadron! That is WELL needed!

Search And Rescue
Now I attempt search and rescue for any downed pilots. BISON was lost - so I need to determine if I can recover him.

Rolls of 9+ is a Quick Recovery - meaning an additional 3 stress on top of mission stress and gains 1 XP
Rolls of 6-8 is Recovered under Fire - Pilot suffers +5 stress on top of mission stress and gains 1 XP
Rolls of 5 or less is MIA - the pilot is unfit for the rest of the campaign unless rescued by an Event Card. If he's rescued, he returns with 1 XP for flying the mission and his stress is set to 3

These can be modified by:
Subtracting the Weight Point (WP) penalty for the target (in this case 2)
Add 1 to the roll for each WP still available for aircraft returning from the mission - this applies to only THIS SAR roll - not ALL SAR rolls - so if you had more than one pilot downed, you would need to "distribute" the WPs remaining between the downed pilots - unless you had a preference
Add 2 to the die roll if the pilot was shot down during the Target Bound or Home Bound steps (in this case he wasn't)

So - a roll of 4 modified to 2 (becuase of the -2WPs for the target area) and modified further by +9 for the remaining AtG weight points on my surviving aircraft means a final modified roll of 11 - meaning a quick recovery - 3 stress!

Debriefing
Record the outcome of the mission...DESTROYED

Adjust Campaign Tracks
Because the target was destroyed I move the RECON counter 2 to the right and the INTEL counter 1 to the right as specified on the Target Card

Target Status
The Target was destroyed and is removed from the battlefield

Pilot Stress and Recovery
Here you assign Target stress and record it taking into account the Cool value of each pilot. Any pilots not used during the mission automatically have their stress reduced by 2 PLUS their Cool value

So my Pilot Stress levels (modified by COOL) ar like so:
TEFLON - 2 Stress + 3 Mission Stress -1 Cool = 4 Stress
BISON - 5 Stress + 3 Mission Stress = 8 Stress (UNFIT)
CRUNCH - 0 Stress + 3 Mission Stress -1 Cool = 2 Stress
TALON - 3 Stress + 3 Mission Stress = 6 Stress (SHAKEN)
COWBOY - 1 Stress + 3 Mission Stress -1 Coll = 3 Stress
EXTRA - 3 Stress + 3 Mission Stress = 6 Stress (SHAKEN)
PLUTO - 0 Stress + 3 Mission Stress = 3 Stress
SPIKE - 2 Stress + 3 Mission Stress = 5 Stress (SHAKEN)

Because of the Hombound Event Card, I have to remove 2 stress from each of the pilots...so the final stress results are
TEFLON - 2 Stress
BISON - 6 Stress (SHAKEN)
CRUNCH - 0 Stress
TALON - 4 Stress (SHAKEN)
COWBOY - 1 Stress
EXTRA - 4 Stress (SHAKEN)
PLUTO - 1 Stress
SPIKE - 3 Stress

Record Pilot Experience
Each pilot is to get 1 experience point +1 XP if there were no aircraft destroyed (not the case as BISON was shot down) - so each pilot gains 1 XP

This is the state of my squadron after 1 day (there could be more than 1 mission in a day with day/night) of a 5 day campaign...not great tbh!

3 Pilotsin SHAKEN status isn't great.

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RE: DVG - Hornet Leader AAR - 12/8/2012 1:15:19 AM

JudgeDredd

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Man - it's so soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo time consuming doing AARs!

Done.

OK - so I didn't outright lose any aircraft - but it does happen - and can happen often - it just depends on those dice. But being a game of dice rolls - it's all in the lap of the gods.

The one thing you must NEVER do is make it easier by re-rolling - or re-picking that counter from the cup. Play it as it plays out. I did 100% here and the effort is much more rewarding. I have (when I first got the game), thought a roll was just ridiculous and rolled again...sometimes only to get the same roll or lower - but in the end, even if you destroy thetarget - your campaign means nothing.

It's far more rewarding to take what the dice roll - or what that extra chit is you pulled.

The draw to re-roll is even MORE prevelaint when your biggest, fattest aircraft is shot down (a double hit or the 3 number on the Bandit counter)...seeing that you simply cannot destroy the target makes re-rolling so easy - but it must be avoided at all costs...a cheating victory is an empty one.

I enjoyed my trip back to this game (and expecially Phantom Leader) - so thanks for requesting the AARs Wodin. I can honestly say I didn't re-roll or perform an extra pull for a chit at any time in this game - I was lucky it went as easy as it did. I've played other games where it was brutal (die rolls)

I'm not sure I will fit in a TAL (Thunderbolt Apache Leader) AAR before Chsirtmas as I had hoped...time has really been a pinch the last month. I haven't even got any more of my P-40 model made from a month or more ago!

So I think tomorrow and Sunday I'll be concentrating on that.

I will try to get a TAL AAR done - but I expect you'll own it before I do it.

BUT - as I said - in order of preference - I would buy (given what I know now)
Phantom Leader
Thunderbolt Apache Leader
Hornet Leader

Though HL and TAL are interchangeable - I think I keep changing my mind between those - but Phantom Leader is always there at the top. I just prefer the brutality and basicness of it - and the conflict. Each of these games brings something different to the boardgame world despite the fact they are based on one engine - the Leader Engine. Phantom Leader is raw and basic. Hornet Leader is weapons abound and platform glory. Thunderbolt Apache Leader is brutal, detailed in damage and quite tactical.

You can't go wrong with any of them though.

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