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Allied CVEs and CVLs?

 
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Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/4/2012 6:16:07 PM   
KPAX


Posts: 676
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
Status: offline 		Allies start to get a mess of the CVEs and the CVLs in mid 1943. I would like to get some insight on the best uses for each of them.

1. Some CVEs are for replenishment and so understand how they work.

2. But the CVE and CVL what really is the difference between them and the usage of each?

3. Are they best to be used solely as escorts for cargo?

4. Can they be used for amph landings? If so, how?

I know this may have been asked in the past, so sorry in advance if that is the case.


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"War makes Heros on both sides." Hero (the movie)



Thanks !!

KPAX
Post #: 1
RE: Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/4/2012 6:22:18 PM   
bigred


Posts: 2610
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline 		I mix the CVLs w/ the CVs because they both have a fast speed. I use the CVEs in shallow water on on amphib missions because the air is not halved in shallow base hexes.

W/ those replenishment CVEs I have put one cve w/ planes of each type into the replinishment TFS before a big carrier battle for quick reload of replacements. Those replacement pilots also work if they are on a land base w/in a about 6 hexes.

As time goes by I expand some of the SCE ftr sqns to max CVE size and get rid of the torpedo sqns.

(in reply to KPAX)
Post #: 2
RE: Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/4/2012 9:45:03 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 5493
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/now in Malta
Status: offline 		I ad CVLs to CV TFs as additional air defence and search assets. Their fighters have defensive mission and TBMs do air search with their good range.

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"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to bigred)
Post #: 3
RE: Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/4/2012 11:43:46 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7045
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: online 		Historically, the CVLs were always intended to sail with the CVs and the crash program to convert cruisers to CVLs was as a stop gap to provide high speed deck space faster than the Essexes could be brought online.

CVEs were called Combustible, Vulnerable, Expendable by their crews. They do not have any armor and are built for secondary roles. Historically they were used for ASW in convoy escort (more in the Atlantic than Pacific, but they served in that role in the Pacific too) and invasion support. CVE air groups were tasked with invasion support and point defense for the invasion ships. This freed up the fast carriers to operate in the wider area around the invasion beachhead and keep the IJN a long ways away. If the IJN didn't come out to play, the fast carriers were free to provide air support for the invasion area, but if they were busy, the CVEs could still provide support.

I've found CVEs work best in their historical role as invasion support. I've also taken the replenishment groups off the CVEs and put VMF units on them (don't use F4U-1s, those are the only Navy fighter that is not carrier capable). After a few months, these Marine units will be carrier trained and you will have a very strong fighter umbrella over any invasion fleet. I've found them adequate to deal with any land based air I may encounter around an invasion beach. Even when I invaded Japan in one game against the AI, I had the fast carriers and land based air from Korea sweeping major air bases to thin out the fighters so the bombers sent against the invasion fleet had poor fighter escort and the CVEs air group kept the invasion safe.

Bill

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(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 4
RE: Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/5/2012 12:24:10 AM   
KPAX


Posts: 676
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
Status: offline 		Secondary question ....

Are the pilots on a CVE Replenishment TF flown as replenishment for the fleet CVs?

Or are teh VRF just a training platform for Navy pilots like any other training unit?

_____________________________

"War makes Heros on both sides." Hero (the movie)



Thanks !!

KPAX

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 5
RE: Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/5/2012 3:28:37 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 990
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		iirc from my Downfall game awhile back, pilots from a VRF would accompany replacement planes flown to a carrier, if the sqn requesting replacement planes was also at less than 100% pilot strength. replacement pilots would not be provided to fill out the group's 'reserve' allotment.
but that was before i learned to keep my carrier groups staffed w/ a full complement of reserve pilots - i've not had need of pilots in any groups lately, so i've not observed any pilot-transfers in my current game.

VRF groups make great training sqns, until they reach the 50s, at which point IMO their training slows more than usual. if you keep both VRF groups aboard the CVE, you'll be unable to conduct flight ops. training tricks like putting a fighter sqn on 30% CAP / 70% Training won't work.

(in reply to KPAX)
Post #: 6
RE: Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/5/2012 6:22:56 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7045
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: online 		I've noticed shore based VR squadrons train just as fast. The VR squadrons on CVEs probably don't train as fast because they can't fly. Pilots will train if they can't fly, but not as fast.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 7
RE: Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/5/2012 6:38:51 PM   
aphrochine


Posts: 187
Joined: 3/24/2008
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		I've used the CVEs both in their traditional role (amphib cover and convoy escort), but also in using them in packs of 3 or 4 to create a makeshift Air Combat group. Many AFBs lose at least 1/2 of their initial CVs in '42 if they arent BSR. These little CVE packs can help fill the gaps in late '42 and early '43 until you get a few Essex class sailing around.

With the CVE's coming in 2 flavors, Operational and Replacement building the CAGs are different. The Operational are easy enough, ready to go with their prescribed Fighter and TBF compliment. For the Replacement CVEs, you have to do some finagling to make the CAGs work. I resurrected the CAGs from my lost fleet CVs in my last game and will be splitting th VF/VB/VT squadrons among 3 CVEs. This works out well and you have space for about 4-6 spares. The VR squadrons are left ashore and are fueling my full time pilot training program. They most train the junk 50+ replacement pilots coming in with all of the navy squadrons...getting their primary skill up to the high 60s before I rotate them into front line duty.

Ultimately, once you have a large US Strike Force assembled with CV/CVL's, you'll task your CVEs with full time Amphib support work.

Note: The CVEs carry almost 300 sorties iirc. So you can use these guys to relentlessly bomb any amphib target before and during an assault. This is key because many targets will be outside of LBA range. This also frees up your strike Carriers to stay focused on intercepting an IJN that comes near.

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Grog Virgin fanboy

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 8
RE: Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/5/2012 7:39:57 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 6201
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I have used them in pretty much all roles. But as Bill says, they are best suited for their historical roles. You will find that your CVEs can't take it and are very easily sunk.

I expanded a lot of fighter squadrons in late 44 and removed the avengers. Late war hellcats and corsairs carry two 1,000 bombs, so with a little training can fill a dual role.

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(in reply to aphrochine)
Post #: 9
RE: Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/5/2012 8:26:47 PM   
KPAX


Posts: 676
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
Status: offline 		so really later you need just two CVEs as replenishment? Each one with a fighter group and one for TBs and one for DBs? I guess this is provided that the CVs are really in the same area of operations.

Good thought on pulling the CVRs off and make them trainers. I was just keeping them on the CVEs and training them. But if they can not fly, I guess, they can not really train up as fast.

Is this right on only having two CVEs for replenishment?

_____________________________

"War makes Heros on both sides." Hero (the movie)



Thanks !!

KPAX

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 10
RE: Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/5/2012 8:40:47 PM   
Dan Nichols


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/30/2011
Status: offline 		It the late stages of the war I like to have 6 replenishment or even 9. I use them in sets of 3( two with DBs and 1 with TBs ) and then rotate them. As I use up the aircraft on set 1, I move set 2 in and retire set 1 back for reloading.

(in reply to KPAX)
Post #: 11
RE: Allied CVEs and CVLs? - 11/9/2012 1:36:18 AM   
dereck


Posts: 2356
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline 		According to the book, Escort Carriers in the Pacific, escort carriers performed five important functions:


  • as combat carriers in support of landings on enemy-held territory
  • as hunter-killer carriers in anti-submarine warfare
  • as training carriers to provide squadrons with experience in carrier operations
  • as transport/replenishment carriers to provide replacement planes, pilots, personnel and spare parts to the fleet directly or to advanced bases
  • to furnish ASP/CAP to convoys as needed


The book also mentions how after delivering fresh planes to an advanced base they would transport damaged planes, personnel and sometimes even cargo to other bases or back to the West Coast. They seem to have been very versatile in their uses.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to KPAX)
Post #: 12
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