RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/8/2012 8:02:58 AM

wodin

Posts: 9419
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

Thanks JD. Well I will ask my Mum and Dad for it for Xmas and throw in twenty pounds myself I think.

_____________________________

My Blog

http://www.awargamersneedfulthings.co.uk/

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 31

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/8/2012 7:20:41 PM

SuluSea

Posts: 2246
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline

My apology for going off topic Judge. Do you , Wodin or anyone else have any opinion on Gato Leader by DVG or know where I can find something it looks right up my alley.

Thanks!

_____________________________

[image]Freedom's back in style[/image]

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 32

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/8/2012 8:07:54 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8551
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Well - not really because it's not out yet. His website is showing backordered and pre-orders at 67 out of 250 needed. (see here)

I did buy and play (for a while) U-Boat Leader. As I've said elsewhere - I wouldn't say it was a bad game. Actually it's pretty well thought through and played out nicely - but it actually wasn't really my bag. It was a little bit slow paced for me and limited (torpedoes and subs)...but the gameplay was pretty tense.

Sorry - that's all I've got...it's been quite some time since I played U-Boat Leader.

_____________________________

JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to SuluSea)

Post #: 33

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/8/2012 10:37:56 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8551
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Combat Phase - Turn 1
Combat Phase goes like so

Fast Pilots Attack
Sites and Bandits Attack
Slow Pilots Attack

When attacking you can

Attack the target with some or all AtG munitions if at the right altitude and within range OR
Attack target with guns if at low altitude and over the target OR
Attack a site with some or all AtG munitions if at the right altitude and within range OR
Attack a site in the same area with guns if at low altitude OR
Attack a bandit with some or all AtA munitions if you are in range OR
Attack a bandit with guns if you are in the same area as the bandit

As I have no fast pilots, it's the enemy to hit out.

Looking at the target area - there's no sites able to target me. The 2 S-60s in the Western Approach Area can only attack low altitude aircraft - and all my aircraft are high. My aircraft are out of range of the M1939 in the target area...there is however the Mig-21...and it has a range of one. So it's going to attack my squadron.

I roll a dice to determine which pilot is being attacked...and it's Jagger. I can suppress and evade if the suppression fails. Jagger fires an AIM-9 to suppress the Mig. The AIM-9 requires a roll of 6 or more to be effective. With Jaggers +1 AtA modifier and the +1 from the Sierra Hotel EVent Card, I only need to roll a 4 or more...he fires the missile. I roll a 5 and the suppression is successful.

That's the Bandit and Site attacks done. Next it's my pilots turn.

Junior fires an AIM-9 at the Mig-21 as it's in range. The roll is a 2. Damn! The Mig-21 escapes.
Jagger fires his remaining AIM-9 at the Mig-21. The roll is 4...HIT! The Mig-21 explodes.

Unfortunately, after that I don't have enough AIM-9s to take out the remaining 2 Migs. I'll have to chance my luck with guns

The only other pilot able to attack this turn due to range is Lefty. He fires one of his AGM-12 Bullpups at one of the S-60s in the Western Approach Area. The AGM-12 requires a 2 or more to be successful. Lefty has no modifier to AtG or AtA rolls - so he needs 1 or more. I think it's obvious there's no need to roll - but anyway...the roll is 8 and the S-60 is toast!

Ok...movement time. I'm going to move all my aircraft low except Junior who will stay High as he has the remaining AIM-9 - so I want to keep him out of harms way of the S-60. They will be prone to attack from the S-60 in the Western Approach and the M1939 in the target area, but I need to be low to suppress the M1939 with my rockets so that Lefty can get his AGM-12 off the rail. So all aircraft go low and head into the Western Approach Area.

This is the state of affairs at the end of Turn 1

*edit* - Cajun is actually showing above as having 2xMk-82s when in fact he should have 2xMk-84s - I knocked the table and the counters fell (a downside to boardgaming!) and when I put them back, I didn't make then Mk-84s.

*edit* oops - the picture above shows all aircraft low...I was keeping Junior high...so I've fixed that for this turn.

*edit*
Getting tired of edits! I must have been tired the other day becuase I forgot to move bandits. The rule for moving bandits is they can move 1 area but are not required to move. If any of my aircraft are in range of the bandit, then it doesn't move...otherwise it moves one area closer. If I had aircraft in more than one zone and they are equally close to the bandit, then you randomly choose which area that bandit is to move.
So - the Mig-19 in the Northern Approach moves into the Western Approach and the Mig-19 in the Eastern Approach moves into the Target Area.

I've updated the picture above to reflect the edits!

Turn 2 tomorrow

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 11/10/2012 11:11:52 AM >

_____________________________

JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 34

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/8/2012 10:41:11 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8551
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Turn 2 tomorrow.

_____________________________

JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 35

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/9/2012 1:22:35 PM

wodin

Posts: 9419
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

Thanks mate.

_____________________________

My Blog

http://www.awargamersneedfulthings.co.uk/

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 36

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/10/2012 12:20:01 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8551
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Combat Phase - Turn 2

Fast Pilots
Again, I have no fast pilots, so the enemy gets to strike first.

Sites and Bandits
The weapon platforms in range of my aircraft are the S-60 and the Mig-19 in the Western Approach Area (where my aircraft are) and the M1939 over the target area. That's quite a lot of evasion I'm going to have to do here.

The Mig-19 swoops in and attacks (randomly rolled) Jagger. Surfer and Lefty have guns (the Phantom F4 II have marked on their cards that they don't have guns until 1967) and Junior has an AIM-9. I really need to keep the AIM-9 so I can attack one of the Migs. So Surfer dives and heads towards the Mig in his F-100 Super Sabre - guns blazing..7 rolled (+1 for the Sierra Hotel event card but with 3WPs of AtG he suffers a -1 on AtA rolls) = 7 and 10 is needed...the suppresion fails and the Super Sabre sweeps on by.

The Mig-19 gets into position and is ready to open fire...Jagger goes evasive (and gains 2 stress for his reward!). In order to be successful the Mig-19 must roll a 5, 8 or 10. I roll two dice (because Jagger has gone evasive) and I roll a 3 and 1 - it would've missed anyway! The Mig scurries around, looking for another opportunity.
nb on bandit/site attacks - a roll less than the first number then there is no effect, a roll equal to the first number but less than the second number and the pilot gains one stress, a roll equal to the second number but less than the third and a hit is incurred and the pilot gains two stress and and loses all external stores...an further hit and the aircraft will be destroyed...and a roll equal to or greater than the third number and the aircraft is destroyed outright.
nb on evasion - when an aircraft goes evasive, they are awarded 2 stress points and you roll two dice for the attack by the bandit and choose the lowest attack number)

Next the S-60 opens up (Junior will be left out of this random roll to determine who is attacked because he is High and the S-60 can only attack low flying targets) and targets Cajun. He rolls over, dives down and fires his rocket salvo to suppress the S-60. Rockets have a +3 modifier for suppression. A roll of 5 modified to 9 with the +1 from the Sierra Hotel Event Card and the +3 from the rockets being used as suppression means the site is suppressed.

The M1939 from the target area has a range of 1 and can attack my aircraft. Because it can attack both high and low, Junior can be targeted. I roll to see which aircraft the site is attacking and it's Surfer. The M1939 can inflict stress on a roll of 3,4 or 5 - inflict a hit on a roll of 6 and 7 and can destroy an aircraft on a roll of 8,9 or 10...so it's quite dangerous. Lefty dives down - letting loose his rockets. A roll of 8 modified to 12 (+1 Sierra Hotel and +3 for rocket suppression) suppresses the site.

Slow Pilots
Right - at last - it's my boys turn.

Lefty fires his AGM-12 Bullpup at the M1939 in the Target Area (the AGM-12 has the range). It's a definite hit with the +1 from the Sierra Hotel card - and a roll of...ohhhh...1 means it's only just a hit! Without the Sierra Hotel modifiers that would've went skyward! The M1939 is destroyed - and with it the danger it poses. Lefty is out of weapons.

Junior fires his AIM-9 at the Mig-19 in the Western Approach Area. A roll of 4 modified to 5 (+1 Sierra Hotel and +1 AtA modifier and -1 for 3WPs AtG penalty) means his AIM-9 goes wide...bad news!

Surfer dives down and drops a Mk-82 on the S-60. A roll of 7 modified to 9 sees the S-60 going up in smoke!

Movement
There's nothing else to do here...the pilots stay low and move in to the Target Area

The bandit in the Target Area stays and the one in the Western Approach Area moves into the Target Area

This is the pictures at the end of Turn 2

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 11/10/2012 1:16:01 PM >

_____________________________

JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 37

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/10/2012 1:20:10 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8551
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Combat Phase - Turn 3

Fast Pilots Attack
None

Sites and Bandits Attack
There are two infantry units in the area and 2 Mig-19s.

One of the Mig-19s dives in and attacks Jagger (AGAIN!). Lefty tries to put the Mig off...he attacks with his gun. A modified roll of 7 doesn't help. Jagger goes evasive again increasing his stress level to 4. Rolls of 9 and 6 means 1 stress is inflicted on him...putting his stress level to 5. I'm surprised he's still able to fly as he's been pretty much the most attacked pilot.

The other Mig comes in and attacks Junior. Lefty swoops in again (it's not clear if for suppression you can't use the same pilot) and fires his cannon. BANG ON! A modified roll of 10 (9 rolled and +1 Sierra Hotel) means he's done enough to put the Mig off Junior's scent.

The infantry units open up with small arms fire in the hope of hitting the aircraft. Surfer and Junior are attacked. Lefty strafes both the infantry units but doesn't manage to suppress either of them with rolls of 4 and 6 modified to 4 and 7. Surfer and Junior don't see the threat as high so stay on their bombing runs through the hail of small arms fire. A roll of 4 sees Surfer coming through with no damage and a roll of 5 sees Junior through...both have the target (Supply Depot) in their sights and pickle their bombs...

Slow Pilots Attack
Surfer continues down - and drops his MK-84. A roll of 1 modified to 3 (+1 Seirra Hotel and +1 AtG) is a miss - and a big blow to the attack...that's a possible 3 hits down!

Junior is next in line - flying low and straight he drops his MK-82 and MK-84. The MK-82 has a roll of 3 modified to 5 (+1 Seirra Hotel and +1 AtG) is also a miss! Damn. His MK-84 has a roll of 3 modified to 5 again and is a single hit. This really is bad news. That's 1 hit out of a potential 8! I need every single hit left from the remaining bombs to get the overkill required - and as I minimum I can only miss twice just to destroy the target.

Jagger is up. In a shallow dive he's hoping his bombs are more precise. He drops his MK-82 and MK-84...a roll of 6 modified to 8 is a hit. The MK-84 has a roll of 8 modified to 10...that's much better. That's 4 hits out of a possible 5. The target is half destroyed. I need at least 5 of the next 6 potential hits to score...

Cajun is up. As the Newbie, he's got a hell of a lot of responsibility...he takes the same (successful) approach as Jagger...a shallow dive towards the target. The infantry are still firing small arms fire, but his Phantom stays the course...he drops both MK-84s...rolls of 1 and 8 modified to 2 and 9...3 more hits...not enough. The target is burning, but large parts of the Supply Depot are untouched.

Movement
The pilots turn and head for home - egressing through the Southern Approach Area and going high.

Unfortunately the Migs are hot on their tails.

This is the state of affairs at the end of Turn 3

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 11/10/2012 2:00:47 PM >

_____________________________

JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 38

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/10/2012 2:23:38 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8551
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Combat Phase - Turn 4

The pilots are heading home - but they still have 2 Mig-19s nipping at their heels.

Fast Pilots Attack
None

Sites and Bandits Attack
The sites present en route are infantry units and their small arms cannot reach the high flying squadron.

One of the Migs closes in on Junior. Surfer tries to put him off and a roll of 9 modified to 10 is enough...the Mig bails and heads for home.

His pal is continuining though and also closes on Junior. Lefty takes a run at the Mig and a modified roll of 2 sees all his bulltes goind wild. Junior goes evasive - increasing his stress to 2. The lowest roll of the two dice is a 6...that is enough to inflict one stress on Junior...but he escapes injury and leaves the scene of the battle with 3 stress.

The bandit flies right and heads for home. Lefty and Surfer want to go after the Migs but Jagger pulls them back.

The battle is over and nothing is acheived.

It's so difficult to take that...8 hits out of a potential 21 (well 19 because I used a MK-82 on a site)...but it's a missed opportunity.

And I didn't use the Optional Rule (for a cost of 2 SOs for a Medium campaign) for Damaged Targets where I would get half the VPs (rounded down) and if you come across the target again, it starts with the hits inflicted this turn and if destroyed you get half the VPs (rounded up).

But - I get nothing for this.

This is the end of Turn 4. We actually came away from the battle in pretty good shape. All pilots and airframes return...that's a plus I guess.

This is the end of the battle.

_____________________________

JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 39

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/10/2012 2:59:12 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8551
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Home Bound Phase

This phase contains two steps

Home Bound Event Card - Draw a card and execute it's home bound event portion
Search and Rescue - for destroyed aircraft to see if you get the pilot back

Home Bound Event Card
Damn - Political Limitations...Presidential Directive - During the next mission, you cannot attack sites, only suppress them.

Search and Rescue
No pilots were shot down this mission

Debriefing Phase
This phase is all about paper work...logging the outcome of the mission, adjusting tracks and recording experience and stress.

I record the Target No as 26, the starting SOs of 6, the used SOs (1 for 2xAGM-12 Bullpups), the remaining SOs of 5, the Target Status of O (operational) and the Victory Points of 0

I adjust the Politics track one to the left and leave the Recon and Intel ones where they are as I did not destroy the target.

All pilots suffer 2 stress due to the location of the target. The pilots now have the following stress levels

Jagger - 5 stress (5 in mission, +2 for target area and -2 for Cool Down value)
Junior - 4 stress (3 in mission, +2 for target area and -1 for Cool Down value)
Surfer - 2 stress (+2 for target area)
Lefty - 2 stress (+2 for target area)
Cajun - 2 stress (+2 for target area)

Each pilot gains 1 Experience point and none have enough to be promoted.

The end of Day 1 of the Campaign has not gone well. I do have all my pilots, but I have no VPs as yet, my hands are partially tied next mission and Jagger and Junior aren't in great shape. 3 days left!

This is how the campaign log looks

_____________________________

JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 40

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/10/2012 3:00:10 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8551
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Hornet Leader AAR next - but I won't be starting that until next week.

_____________________________

JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 41

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/10/2012 8:04:49 PM

wodin

Posts: 9419
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

Excellent AAR. Thanks. My worry is after reading a couple of PL AAR's now I haven't seen any player plane shot down. I looked at an AAR for the IPad release and they lost I think three or four planes.

Do you find it's easy to keep your planes intact?

Also I notice at one point the enemy had the initiative and was about to fire an SA 60 yet a Sabre dived down and shot first to suppress it...I'm surprised that if the SA 60 had the initiative and it was their turn to fire it didn't get the SA 60 off before the sabre came in to suppress. This is the part under question..just confusing if it's the site\enemies turn to fire the player can get in first on their turn.

"Next the S-60 opens up (Junior will be left out of this random roll to determine who is attacked because he is High and the S-60 can only attack low flying targets) and targets Cajun. He rolls over, dives down and fires his rocket salvo to suppress the S-60. Rockets have a +3 modifier for suppression. A roll of 5 modified to 9 with the +1 from the Sierra Hotel Event Card and the +3 from the rockets being used as suppression means the site is suppressed. "

_____________________________

My Blog

http://www.awargamersneedfulthings.co.uk/

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 42

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/10/2012 9:28:48 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8551
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Well - first off there is a HUGE draw to "re-roll" in a boardgame...I almost done it myself. So the AARs about, I'd take with a pinch of salt. I have had planes shot down...one time, 50% of my flight was destroyed...but it's so easy to re-roll for that evasion roll or suppression or when you roll a 5 and needed a 6 for that AIM-9...so you have to be extremely disciplined when playing a boardgame. Or perhaps they have just come across a formula that makes it difficult for them to lose aircraft - btu I've never found anything like that. I reckon probably at least 50% of my missions end in at least one downed aircraft.

In answer to your question - it's difficult to finish a mission with all aircraft. Don't forget as well that I only had 3 bandits out of a possible 9 pulled...it could've gone very wrong for me.

Secondly - regarding suppression - suppression is a huge choice to make and not always a choice you have or want to use. Maybe I've misread and in that case Cajun shouldn't have been able to suppress...maybe I played that wrong and it should be any other pilot can suppress. Also as I mentioned I'm not entirely sure I should be able to use the same pilot who performed suppresion already that turn to perform it again.

I wouldn't worry based on what you've read (here or elsewhere) - the game gives you a huge headache of choices to make - be it through your limit of SOs, the choice of weapons, how many AtA WPs do I take along, how many hits do I need. Each mission is full of "what if"s. I mean - I could've paid SOs to use the Tanker Priority option so I didn't suffer from the -1 WP penalty - and that would've meant more munitions which might have given me the result I needed. I might have pulled 2 more bandits and had nowhere near enough AtA weapons. I could left more munitions off and took ECM pods. There are so many choices and often it's only making that one wrong choice that'll cost you the target or the plane.

And this goes for all 3 of the Leader games - they are all tough calls on choices. Each of them are plenty tough enough.

I do regard myself as lucky that I didn't lose an aircraft on this mission...given the 2 Migs kicking around. But there was alot of infantry sites I pulled which aren't that dangerous.

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 11/10/2012 9:30:15 PM >

_____________________________

JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 43

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/10/2012 10:31:58 PM

wodin

Posts: 9419
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

Cool. I was just making sure the game was a challenge. It just seemed odd that during the enemy site shooting turn you could hit it first before it fired. However I don't know the rules, I expect some sort of initiative is used to see if the plane reacts to being targeted before the SA fired. Which in away is a cool feature.
I haven't read lots of AAR's just the couple I have read no casualties happened so just making sure there isn't some inbalance going on in the game system.

Great AAR though. As long as the game can throw spanners at you and cause havoc at times I'm happy.

< Message edited by wodin -- 11/10/2012 10:33:32 PM >

_____________________________

My Blog

http://www.awargamersneedfulthings.co.uk/

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 44

RE: DVG - Phantom Leader AAR - 11/10/2012 10:54:08 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8551
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Well I wasn't actually able to "hit" the site...You can't destroy sites or bandits during the Site/Bandit Attack phase - you can only suppress...and that's one of the tough decisions - do you waste a weapon trying to suppress and enemy site/bandit. It's not a waste IF it does suppress the site/bandit AND the site/bamdit was going to hit you - but you have no way of knowing...so it's a chance you take. If you miss - then it's wasted ordinance - ordinance that could've got me that win.

So you cannot destroy sites or bandits during their attack phase - just suppress. All suppression does is prevent the site/bandit from attacking...the site/bandit will still be around even if your suppression works - because it's not "a hit".

Sometimes you think you won't bother trying to suppress and keep the weapon to destroy the site when it's your slow pilots turn...but then you risk evasion not working...it's all choices and you will rack your brains trying to second guess whether it's worth it or not.

_____________________________

JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 45