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Japanese Convoys

 
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Japanese Convoys - 11/2/2012 3:49:04 PM   
panzer cat

 

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From: The occupied Southland
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Any suggestions on lowering losses. Do larger heavily escortd convoys work better? Is there a combined asw value that I should shoot for among my escorts. It's 43 and losses have been heavy.

panzer cat
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RE: Japanese Convoys - 11/2/2012 5:03:27 PM   
obvert


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By 43 you're going to lose some ships, period. You can try to help stem the tide and hit the subs by using several tactics.

1. Big convoys (15 ships) with AV/AMC/CVE air search embedded, with a LOT of escorts. Usually 50% of the ships is what I use. These are my big TK convoys. Always make sure the commander of the convoy has good naval and decent aggression, and hopefully some of your escort captains will have these as well, to help find and attack subs that come in contact with it. If they're going open ocean use escorts with type 2 DCs ideally. By 43 the PBs are either relegated to the shallows or just work as targets in the big convoys to take a shot instead of the TKs.

2. Good coastal routing with air search ASW on the way. The more the better.

3. Sometimes I have a convoy follow an ASW TF. This has worked pretty well too. I just had one run over a sub and drop a bunch of hits on it in deep water.

4. Change things up. Move your routes periodically so he can't concentrate on one or two locations. Also, occasionally if you can afford them, send in your best DDs in ASW TFs near air search where a lot of subs are operating. Over a few weeks several TFs working the same ocean will both make the subs ineffective and get to a few with the DCs.

< Message edited by obvert -- 11/2/2012 7:12:29 PM >


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RE: Japanese Convoys - 11/2/2012 9:54:34 PM   
Crackaces


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One question I might have is there one particular area your opponent is patroling? I am an AFB .. and I love Southern P.I in 1943 as it is a choke point for TK's in and out of DEI. Hugging the Indochina coast might be a good idea if this is true. Other areas are Formosa and off Oki .. where convoy routes tend to increase in density.

Just a thought ...

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RE: Japanese Convoys - 11/2/2012 10:36:40 PM   
panzer cat

 

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Most of my losses are on the lines running from Taiwan- to the the home islands and to a lesser extent in the DEI. I have aircover(asw) as much as possible in these areas along with asw patrols of 3 to 4 ships. A lot of my convoys have been 5 to 6 ships with 1 being an escort. I do have larger convoys running out of places like singapore, 10 to 12 ships with 2 to 3 escorts. Most of my escorts for the cargo hulls are PB's, saveing the DD's for the tankers and troop ships.
panzer cat

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RE: Japanese Convoys - 11/3/2012 11:57:45 PM   
Lokasenna


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If you are not already doing so, I think you should try using Naval Search missions with a fair portion (25%, maybe as high as 50%) of your aircraft - a sub with a high DL is a useless sub. I like to set my patrol training squadrons in the Home Islands to 40% Nav Search/40% training/20% rest. They won't increase their NavS skill as quickly that way, but it also eases up a little bit on the need to keep trained NavS pilots in the HI for ASW purposes.

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RE: Japanese Convoys - 11/4/2012 1:59:49 PM   
jetjockey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: panzer cat

Most of my losses are on the lines running from Taiwan- to the the home islands and to a lesser extent in the DEI. I have aircover(asw) as much as possible in these areas along with asw patrols of 3 to 4 ships. A lot of my convoys have been 5 to 6 ships with 1 being an escort. I do have larger convoys running out of places like singapore, 10 to 12 ships with 2 to 3 escorts. Most of my escorts for the cargo hulls are PB's, saveing the DD's for the tankers and troop ships.
panzer cat

I generally agree with this approach but I will add this; route your CS TFs using waypoints. Disburse your TFs so that only the areas immediately surrounding major ports and choke-points should be high-traffic areas, and those should be heavily patrolled.

< Message edited by jetjockey -- 11/4/2012 2:00:33 PM >

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RE: Japanese Convoys - 11/4/2012 3:53:29 PM   
SuluSea


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By 1943 your IJA training should have a number of vital areas covered with Sea/ASW search.



I see some helpful suggestions already written.

I'd add-

When using waypoints try and find all the shallow water you can as it's easier to damage Allied subs.
There are some instances I'll redo my waypoints as 3 aren't enough for my task force routing. It's more work but it pays off.


If you note subs loitering in the same choke spot in shallow water don't be shy about dropping mines.
If available use carrier based aircraft staggered at 1 to 6 thousand feet in naval attack with 50% to 70% search over the infested area and many will go limping home.

Best of luck!

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RE: Japanese Convoys - 11/4/2012 4:36:25 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18217
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

By 43 you're going to lose some ships, period. You can try to help stem the tide and hit the subs by using several tactics.

1. Big convoys (15 ships) with AV/AMC/CVE air search embedded, with a LOT of escorts. Usually 50% of the ships is what I use. These are my big TK convoys. Always make sure the commander of the convoy has good naval and decent aggression, and hopefully some of your escort captains will have these as well, to help find and attack subs that come in contact with it. If they're going open ocean use escorts with type 2 DCs ideally. By 43 the PBs are either relegated to the shallows or just work as targets in the big convoys to take a shot instead of the TKs.

2. Good coastal routing with air search ASW on the way. The more the better.

3. Sometimes I have a convoy follow an ASW TF. This has worked pretty well too. I just had one run over a sub and drop a bunch of hits on it in deep water.

4. Change things up. Move your routes periodically so he can't concentrate on one or two locations. Also, occasionally if you can afford them, send in your best DDs in ASW TFs near air search where a lot of subs are operating. Over a few weeks several TFs working the same ocean will both make the subs ineffective and get to a few with the DCs.


Helpful comments here. Also agree with other posters about the role of aerial ASW training and deployment. These combined efforts, along with advancement of escort-type ships, should pay dividends.

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RE: Japanese Convoys - 11/4/2012 5:26:48 PM   
nashvillen


Posts: 2825
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From: Christiana, TN
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rjopel and I are up to almost September 1944 with a scenario 8. I have been very deliberate about my ASW/Convoy tactics as the Japanese. I will not go into details here now, as it will give away some of it that rjopel may or may not have guessed by now. I look forward to comparing notes with him about the effectiveness of my tactics and his actual losses vs. my losses. I will encourage him to work with me on a thread about our tactics and thoughs out in the open after the game is over to see what did and didn't work and why.

Thanks for your patience, I think I have worked out, with the reading here in this great forum, something that limited my losses over time.

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RE: Japanese Convoys - 11/5/2012 3:40:06 AM   
panzer cat

 

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From: The occupied Southland
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I started late training IJA air for ASW. I have a few squadrons of 2e aircraft dedicated along the convoy lines, Japan, Saigon, Taiwan. I also have Anns and sonias out of the PI on asw patrol. The 2e units have 50 to 70 asw and the 1e units have had less training. I have other army air
training in for nav bombing, I'll shift a few to asw and see how thing improve. I'm in the process of rorganising my merchant fleet to fewer and larger convoys. Japan is well stocked with enough resources to cover a short term disruptions.
I have mined some choke points, he has lost subs to ths Tsushima straits minefields, and all of my important ports have minefields also.

panzer cat

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