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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

 
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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/29/2012 8:29:48 PM   
hooooper

 

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Here's the image. The NW Front Brigade was shipped in to strengthen the backdoor after this shot was taken.




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< Message edited by hooooper -- 10/29/2012 8:31:10 PM >

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/29/2012 8:33:15 PM   
hooooper

 

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Here's the final position at VV.






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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/29/2012 8:54:35 PM   
hooooper

 

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The 24 stack at the bottom of the shot is blocking the direct route to Moscow, so any outflanking drive will have to first outflank the Volga reservoir and the marshland around it, which will be difficult to achieve before the mud. The other option is a drive north, which would unhinge the Soviet defence in this sector and take the Valdai hills, but the value would really only be as a jumping off point for some other operation. I suspect, as I mentioned earlier a drive towards the Finns, but that would not be until November.

Here are the Moscow and Tula sectors after Soviet moves.






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< Message edited by hooooper -- 10/29/2012 9:33:08 PM >

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/29/2012 8:56:51 PM   
hooooper

 

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Tula




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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/29/2012 9:14:35 PM   
hooooper

 

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The Bryansk pocket is nicely sealed now, but Tula is looking a little more secure - but I'm sure the Germans could take it if they really want to. But could they take Moscow as well?

Here's the final position in the south. Zhukov is wasted at the SW Front, but where should he be moved? To the Stavka in place of Boris? (But Boris has a higher admin value, I think).





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< Message edited by hooooper -- 10/29/2012 9:40:32 PM >

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/29/2012 9:16:34 PM   
hooooper

 

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And here's the OOBs





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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/29/2012 9:24:56 PM   
hooooper

 

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My general observation is that the German player is using an unusual strategy. All the Wehrmacht's mechanised forces are concentrated in the north, but I'm not completely sure what the goal is. The result is that the eastern Ukraine is going to be unmolested, and will provide a productive boost to the Red Army in 42. Which, if you look at the state of its artillery and armour, will be very useful.

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/29/2012 9:38:57 PM   
hooooper

 

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quote:

As it is so hard now to pocket units vs most SHC players, more and more GHC players are grinding it out to keep game close.
Its seems to atleast keep you in the game.
Its not easy getting the right mix of SU/leaders in the right units in the right areas.

Over-all wite is much more balanced then in the past.

Hes drop your fort on the back door hex?

Did he do the standard 4 to 6 regiment attacks on that hex, bomb 3x, then do the main assault or just the one main assault? Leader Model and 4 best infantry divisoins in his Corp, then 2 more good ones.

That hex falls 50%+ of the time if you do the attack like that + have 3 panzer divisions on reserve. Might take 2 or 3 turns, but never more then 3. I ran a test, 20 assaults and the average was 50%. Only 1 time did it take a 4th.

He could also simply bomb the crap out of the port, but the soaking attacks then big assault is more then enough.


The fortification level is still three, I think. So that's how you attack the back door is it? That's interesting - do you use offensive reserves at other times? I suspect that one difference between good and bad German players is just choosing whether to use hasty or deliberate attacks, and at what force. Experience must be a big part of that.

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/29/2012 10:00:05 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hooooper

quote:

As it is so hard now to pocket units vs most SHC players, more and more GHC players are grinding it out to keep game close.
Its seems to atleast keep you in the game.
Its not easy getting the right mix of SU/leaders in the right units in the right areas.

Over-all wite is much more balanced then in the past.

Hes drop your fort on the back door hex?

Did he do the standard 4 to 6 regiment attacks on that hex, bomb 3x, then do the main assault or just the one main assault? Leader Model and 4 best infantry divisoins in his Corp, then 2 more good ones.

That hex falls 50%+ of the time if you do the attack like that + have 3 panzer divisions on reserve. Might take 2 or 3 turns, but never more then 3. I ran a test, 20 assaults and the average was 50%. Only 1 time did it take a 4th.

He could also simply bomb the crap out of the port, but the soaking attacks then big assault is more then enough.


The fortification level is still three, I think. So that's how you attack the back door is it? That's interesting - do you use offensive reserves at other times? I suspect that one difference between good and bad German players is just choosing whether to use hasty or deliberate attacks, and at what force. Experience must be a big part of that.


Yes that's how I have done it in more then one game, been able to drop fort levels each turn win or lose. Just a matter of time before it falls.
The regiment or single division attacks cause the defenders fatigue lvls to increase/disruption + bombing does same. Then the main assault or assaults, which will drop fort lvls. If you set it up right 2 assaults are possible in a single turn with 3 panzer units in reserve mode.

I use O reserves to cross rivers and take out city hexes in frontal assaults. I have taken Moscow in a frontal assault in 1942.

I also use O reserve mode in 42 to help crack the layered fort defences. I will set 4 panzer units in reserve mode until after the wall is cracked.

I am guessing that he has never had to fight across the landbridge before vs a strong defence.

So you have a good chance of holding it.


< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/29/2012 10:01:26 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 5:41:40 PM   
hooooper

 

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Turn 15

Bombing attacks resume against Osinovets, but Leningrad holds out for another turn.




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< Message edited by hooooper -- 10/30/2012 5:46:07 PM >

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 6:32:57 PM   
HITMAN202


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Why bomb Osinovets ???

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 6:34:44 PM   
hooooper

 

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In the far north, 7th army is conducting a fighting retreat. I usually build a line of fortified zones along the no-attack line, but on this occasion I tried to hold at Janisjarvi. Not with any great success, and I've been conducting a slow retreat. On the whole I might have preferred to have the troops than the APs saved by not building the FZs ...




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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 6:47:07 PM   
hooooper

 

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Moving south we have the Valdai pocket, which is completely sealed. But which way are the German's going now? They're in about the right position for a turn south to hit the Moscow rail line, or north to meet the Finns we saw in the last shot. I still think these are going to be operations for the frosts of November.




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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 7:04:16 PM   
hooooper

 

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And here's Moscow ...






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< Message edited by hooooper -- 10/30/2012 8:43:00 PM >

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 7:16:55 PM   
hooooper

 

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It's where Leningrad gets its supplies (from the east Ladoga ports). If Bomazz can damage the post past 50%, Leningrad will be isolated.

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 8:34:03 PM   
Pelton

 

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He be smart to just cross the river and not clear it out until during snow.

Starve the manpower and clear a few AP pts

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GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 8:53:37 PM   
hooooper

 

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Three turns from the rasputitsa, fighting to the south of Moscow has become frenzied.




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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 8:56:28 PM   
hooooper

 

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As the previous picture shows, the Soviets have begun to exploit their relative strength of their airforce. The first attacks are successful (we must have hit an ammunition dump), although Guderian remains elusive.




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< Message edited by hooooper -- 10/30/2012 8:57:19 PM >

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 8:59:32 PM   
hooooper

 

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In the Orel Tula sector, a pocket is almost - but not quite - formed.





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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 9:27:55 PM   
Pelton

 

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I have had the same issue. As long as the SHC starts building forts turn 1 5 hexes west of Moscow and 50 miles north and south its not possible to take it.

I am kinda surpised you don't have more and higher lvl forts in plase alrdy, but looks like it will still hold.

Those are some heavy loses if he chooses to let them die in November, which would be the smart move for him at this point.

Vs Bobo I was close to taking Mocsow, but relized it was probably not going to happen so I pocketed everything I could and killed it off in November.

I am guessing hes never had to make that choice before and will try and take Moscow

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GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 9:28:27 PM   
hooooper

 

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This is the southern section, which remains a backwater. I would like to reinforce the North Caucusus and the Southern Fronts, but I can't spare more than a couple of divisions from the north and centre, where the armies are facing more than thirty mech divisions.




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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 9:37:16 PM   
hooooper

 

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I never build FZs in front of Moscow ... I've found that digging Reserve Front armies in behind rivers and allowing the Western Front to fall back towards them works every time. It might work this time as well, but I think it's too close to call. I would guess that, by the 4 December, Tula and Leningrad will certainly fall. On the other hand the "operational tempo" is extraordinarily high .. the PZ divisions are down to half strength in tanks, judging by the OOB, and there must be problems with fatigue. And speaking of the OOB, here's the latest version.





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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 9:40:11 PM   
Pelton

 

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Wow hes doing really porly down here.

I am guessing in the past hes had no problem taking Leningrad and Moscow, game set match.

Hes is going to take a beating down here come blizzard, I am thinking hes got next to zero blizzard exp. This game is very much like M60 game where he lost Moscow, but turned the tables in 43.

There is far more manpower in the south then north. This strategy only works if he can take Moscow/Leningrad and KIA enough SHC. Allot of guys have the I must win the war in 1941 mindset, when its just as easy to win it in 42 if not easyer.

Your not out of the woods yet, but you could really put a major hurt on him come blizzard. Axis allies do not respawn.

Hang on!!!!!!!!!

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 9:42:25 PM   
Pelton

 

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Hes still got good tank numbers allot more then I have by this time. Your OOB is ok also real toss up game so far

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GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 10:08:20 PM   
hooooper

 

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I've never seen this left-handed strategy before. But B does think a couple of turns ahead, he has a definite plan, is a good tactician (for example his pockets are hard to break) and he seems to understand the German logistic system (the CVs of his units are higher than I'm used to seeing at this point in the game) .. so it might work out for him (that is, he might get all three cities). The question is, where does that leaves us in 42? If the industrial capital of the Soviet Union is preserved (and I've hardly lost anything apart from heavy industry), will the Red Army still turn into a monster? I'm looking forward to finding out.

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 11:01:42 PM   
hooooper

 

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Here is the Valdai pocket after Soviet moves




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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 11:05:49 PM   
hooooper

 

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And here are the defences north of Moscow




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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 11:15:25 PM   
hooooper

 

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As you can see, the schwerpunkt has moved north east, and is facing a rag-tag collection of units from a number of fronts. Just the right conditions for heroic defence, down to the last potato peeler. The units to the south of Moscow, PG2 presumably, are now overflowing with armoured units. In front of them, a carpet of low quality units (despite the fact that almost all have been on refit). The Axis will certainly make progress, but will it be enough?




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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 11:20:31 PM   
hooooper

 

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Down at Tula Orel, a panzer division was shoved to one side to relieve the troops, and a number of counter encirclements have taken place. This will probably be nothing more than a minor inconvenience for the Germans, but that's better than nothing.




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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of def... - 10/30/2012 11:36:22 PM   
Pelton

 

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Your in deep **** for sure.

Not this yr but next yr. As he should be able to AP crunch you NP, if he has done this before.

Check out M60's game if you want to see into the future.

I still think you can hold Moscow. How is Leningrad going?

Do you have refit off to ALL the southern units?


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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