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Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/27/2012 11:52:52 PM   
wodin


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Contact L2 designs to make a pc conversion of Streets of Stalingrad. Please pretty please. I'd be all over it like a terrible rash, aslong as it has an AI.

I've looked at this boardgame many time son the net. It's now out of print and copies go for very high price.

I just read a superb AAR with screenies taken of an ADC2 module.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/530697/streets-of-stalingrad-the-grain-elevator-aar



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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/28/2012 1:51:53 PM   
SapperAstro

 

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Does this game have any rules specifically that you like? It seems to be a scenario that could be well represented in one of the existing games like Kharkov DotD.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/28/2012 4:16:30 PM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Contact L2 designs to make a pc conversion of Streets of Stalingrad. Please pretty please. I'd be all over it like a terrible rash, aslong as it has an AI.

I've looked at this boardgame many time son the net. It's now out of print and copies go for very high price.

I just read a superb AAR with screenies taken of an ADC2 module.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/530697/streets-of-stalingrad-the-grain-elevator-aar





Fantastic boardgame.
I wish I still had it....lent it to someone years ago, and have never heard from them since!!

Another great game was SPI's 'Drive On Stalingrad'. I wish someone would do that!!
I especially liked the 'Hitler Rug Chewing' table, where the objectives for 6th Armee could suddenly change at the drop of a hat!!






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Empire101 -- 10/28/2012 4:18:02 PM >


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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/28/2012 5:19:32 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SapperAstro

Does this game have any rules specifically that you like? It seems to be a scenario that could be well represented in one of the existing games like Kharkov DotD.



Hmm..well the mechanics of the game seem very different and I think it's the mechanics that make the game..different severities of wounds on commanders etc..immersion at it's best. It also isn't exactly igougo.

The trouble with Kharkov is very few scenarios where made with an AI (user made I mean). I'd love to play out though a Stalingrad campaign maybe using SSG's Battlefront game..which was cast aside it seems. Again barely any user made scenarios.

A coy level monster Stalingrad campaign PC game is sorely lacking. My fluid fottprint game mechanic would work very well i think at that level aswell..if I could programme I'd be beavering away at it.

< Message edited by wodin -- 10/28/2012 5:21:00 PM >


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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/28/2012 9:53:44 PM   
wodin


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Sapper just remembered someone made a stunning Stalingrad scenario for Battlefront but no AI was made for sadly, otherwise I'd buy BF solely for the scenario..it's mentioned in the BF forum.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/29/2012 1:17:05 PM   
SapperAstro

 

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Hmm...making the AI without having to worry about creating the map, etc would be a lot easier proposition. And there is an AI tutorial over on the SSG run5 site somewhere. Might have to look into it. Anyone have a copy of battlefront for me to do so?

Oh I agree with you about the wound system, etc, it just seemed like a bit of a brawlfest when reading about the rest of the game. A natural thing when talking about a grand tactical game of that type. There are so many great boardgames out there that would go great on a computer I have lost count. Unfortunately, one that I would have thought is a dead ringer has never really been done; Squad Leader (or ASL. If the computer took care of the book keeping...). Unbelievable...A computerised version of SQ, with a decent AI and scenario/campaign editor, with the whole boardgame look would be brilliant.

The thing is I think we are largely looking uphill. First you would have to find who holds the rights to the game, and then you would need to find a team willing to do the work, and someone to fund that team. Conflict of Heroes has just been made, and if the next update is all it is purported to be, it will finally be ready for the gold star. But that is a new, currently 'In' boardgame. Drumming up interest for an ancient, dead board game that few people remember or played is a whole other kettle of fish, regardless of its merits, and if the rights are held by some evil conglomerate that broke the company up 20 years ago as part of some share merger or whatever....

Another example; we have here at Matrix an ongoing conversion to PC of World in Flames. Huge game. Huge undertaking. Minimal resources allocated...absolutely minimal. And this was one of the Big Games for WW2 strategy heads all through the late 80's and 90's. I have a few different editions myself, 1st, 5th and final...(well, they call it final, but there is always another 10 after that ). The conversion has been on the trot for the past 10 years or more...I cannot remember the exact amount of time, but it is a long time waiting for one computer game. I think there is one person working on it. And apparently he has done bugger all lately because he has some severe health problems. He has my sympathies, but looking at the whole thing dispassionately, it doesn't say much when this is how a BIG wargame is treated for a computer conversion.

Another game; Lock and Loaded Heroes of Stalingrad (or whatever they are calling it now. I think it has changed names once or twice in its many years of development for the PC). First it is on. Then it is off. Then it is apparently coming SOON!!!1!1....then it isn't. Meanwhile, it is now small fry compared to the new kids on the block in board and miniature land, like Flames of War. From what I understand, the LnL bosses suddenly realised just how much work is involved in making a decent PC game out of it and got cold feet. I hear it is still being worked on but...who knows? How much info do they give us?

Ok, after writing that I might be able to answer one or two of my own questions.

Academy seemably did it right by organising a developer with some cred behind them to do their conversion for Conflict of Heroes; Awakening the Bear (Western Civilisation). The others didn't. They tried internally. It didn't work for Harry Rowland (World in Flames). It doesn't seem to be working for the LnL people at this point in time, unless they are keeping their super success a secret from us all.

In any case, sorry for the ramblings. You got me thinking there and off I went. I will shut up now...



< Message edited by SapperAstro -- 10/29/2012 1:23:00 PM >

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/29/2012 6:23:09 PM   
wodin


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If I won the lottery I'd start up an Indie studio solely to make boardgame conversions. PlayDek are doing it for GMT games but the ones they have chosen so far aren't the ones I want to play..also they are mainly for IPad or Android.

Oh and an IPad 4 and stuff for my daughter (she just told me to write that).

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/29/2012 8:03:54 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Contact L2 designs to make a pc conversion of Streets of Stalingrad. Please pretty please. I'd be all over it like a terrible rash, aslong as it has an AI.

I've looked at this boardgame many time son the net. It's now out of print and copies go for very high price.

I just read a superb AAR with screenies taken of an ADC2 module.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/530697/streets-of-stalingrad-the-grain-elevator-aar





Fantastic boardgame.
I wish I still had it....lent it to someone years ago, and have never heard from them since!!

Another great game was SPI's 'Drive On Stalingrad'. I wish someone would do that!!
I especially liked the 'Hitler Rug Chewing' table, where the objectives for 6th Armee could suddenly change at the drop of a hat!!







I had that one, it was rather strange to have your objectives swtich around like that, kind of took the interest ou tof it for me.



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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/30/2012 9:07:02 AM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SapperAstro

Hmm...making the AI without having to worry about creating the map, etc would be a lot easier proposition. And there is an AI tutorial over on the SSG run5 site somewhere. Might have to look into it. Anyone have a copy of battlefront for me to do so?

Oh I agree with you about the wound system, etc, it just seemed like a bit of a brawlfest when reading about the rest of the game. A natural thing when talking about a grand tactical game of that type. There are so many great boardgames out there that would go great on a computer I have lost count. Unfortunately, one that I would have thought is a dead ringer has never really been done; Squad Leader (or ASL. If the computer took care of the book keeping...). Unbelievable...A computerised version of SQ, with a decent AI and scenario/campaign editor, with the whole boardgame look would be brilliant.

The thing is I think we are largely looking uphill. First you would have to find who holds the rights to the game, and then you would need to find a team willing to do the work, and someone to fund that team. Conflict of Heroes has just been made, and if the next update is all it is purported to be, it will finally be ready for the gold star. But that is a new, currently 'In' boardgame. Drumming up interest for an ancient, dead board game that few people remember or played is a whole other kettle of fish, regardless of its merits, and if the rights are held by some evil conglomerate that broke the company up 20 years ago as part of some share merger or whatever....

Another example; we have here at Matrix an ongoing conversion to PC of World in Flames. Huge game. Huge undertaking. Minimal resources allocated...absolutely minimal. And this was one of the Big Games for WW2 strategy heads all through the late 80's and 90's. I have a few different editions myself, 1st, 5th and final...(well, they call it final, but there is always another 10 after that ). The conversion has been on the trot for the past 10 years or more...I cannot remember the exact amount of time, but it is a long time waiting for one computer game. I think there is one person working on it. And apparently he has done bugger all lately because he has some severe health problems. He has my sympathies, but looking at the whole thing dispassionately, it doesn't say much when this is how a BIG wargame is treated for a computer conversion.

Another game; Lock and Loaded Heroes of Stalingrad (or whatever they are calling it now. I think it has changed names once or twice in its many years of development for the PC). First it is on. Then it is off. Then it is apparently coming SOON!!!1!1....then it isn't. Meanwhile, it is now small fry compared to the new kids on the block in board and miniature land, like Flames of War. From what I understand, the LnL bosses suddenly realised just how much work is involved in making a decent PC game out of it and got cold feet. I hear it is still being worked on but...who knows? How much info do they give us?

Ok, after writing that I might be able to answer one or two of my own questions.

Academy seemably did it right by organising a developer with some cred behind them to do their conversion for Conflict of Heroes; Awakening the Bear (Western Civilisation). The others didn't. They tried internally. It didn't work for Harry Rowland (World in Flames). It doesn't seem to be working for the LnL people at this point in time, unless they are keeping their super success a secret from us all.

In any case, sorry for the ramblings. You got me thinking there and off I went. I will shut up now...





Yeah, I understand everything your saying..but it feels like the issue isn't the amount of people that want these games or the difficulty in developing them but more the development team thats building the two you mention. WoF one man band for prob one of the biggest wargames made....makes no sense...LnLHOS, Mark is more interested in his Boardgames otherwise it would have been made by now. CoH deviated from the boardgame not enough to make it fully unique take but too much to take away some of the main aspects of the game (which is being fixed in the patch however not sure how much damage that has done to the game, nor am I sure it attracted any of the CoH boardgamers because of the changes). A dedicated development studio for this would work, even for those older games which can no longer be bought now and esp the more complicated ones like SoS where the PC would take away all that bookkeeping etc. As I said GMT are doing it..but the art quality is supposed to be poor and the price way to high.

Now tabletop mini games, they are crying out for a PC conversion, but one done well, one following the tabletop line..even including a paint your army programme if you want to, a buy new mini's but a great selection through small payment DLC. DO everything the tabletop player can do, but add animations\effects etc..keep it looking like it's being played on a huge table though, so around the scenery (which you can place) you see the table edge.Toy Solider tower defense to a look similar, I hate Tower Defense games though ;).

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/30/2012 5:25:22 PM   
parusski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Contact L2 designs to make a pc conversion of Streets of Stalingrad. Please pretty please. I'd be all over it like a terrible rash, aslong as it has an AI.

I've looked at this boardgame many time son the net. It's now out of print and copies go for very high price.

I just read a superb AAR with screenies taken of an ADC2 module.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/530697/streets-of-stalingrad-the-grain-elevator-aar




wodin is on a righteous campaign. MAKE IT.


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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/31/2012 2:35:27 AM   
Peter Fisla


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Contact L2 designs to make a pc conversion of Streets of Stalingrad. Please pretty please. I'd be all over it like a terrible rash, aslong as it has an AI.

I've looked at this boardgame many time son the net. It's now out of print and copies go for very high price.

I just read a superb AAR with screenies taken of an ADC2 module.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/530697/streets-of-stalingrad-the-grain-elevator-aar




That would be cool, though I don't think L2 owns the license to the game anymore. I bought the game last year from someone at $300 ouch! Great game and an amazing production value. Though I have yet to find time to play this monster.

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 10/31/2012 2:38:32 AM >

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/31/2012 8:27:22 AM   
wodin


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Yeah L2 still have it..they just said they'd never reprint it it ever...sad.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/31/2012 11:50:02 AM   
Iain McNeil


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There are many many good board games out there and we're always looking for opportunities but most developers want to make their own game and not convert someone else's. This is why board game conversions are are rare but it is definitely something we're looking in to more as the board game and video game worlds come closer together.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/31/2012 2:55:56 PM   
Custer

 

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This situation cries out for taking a wargame builder like The War Engine, adding the ability to make an AI and give everyone (not just computer programmers) the opportunity to literally build their own wargame with an AI.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/31/2012 3:01:40 PM   
wodin


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Good news Iain. Good news indeed. Some fantastic boardgames out there that are crying out for a PC conversion aswell as your Ipads\Androids.

Death Ride Kursk series, GD'42 (Plus the other games in the TCS series), Streets of Stalingrad, Bloody April (amazing wargame that covers the air war better than any game yet), Wings of War (If you got a contract with Fantasy Flight Games then your on a cash cow), Gamers Case Blue, ATS series, Panzer series (just been re released and reworked by GMT games and getting high praise), Fighting Formations series, SPQR, Command and Colours series, Worthington Games Band of Brothers (got some great reviews since release with it's unique game mechanics), The Burning Blue, RAF Battle of Britain (John Butterfields solo masterpiece), D Day on Ohmaha (another solo Butterfield masterpeice, throw in Deippe aswell and it's a winner) Steel Wolves and Silent War, Landships, The Battle for Normandy (GMT games monster), Next War: Korea (getting some great reviews), Panzer Grenadier, plus many, many more. Lots of boardgames especially the monster ones are amazing games but take up to much room and lots of rules, all this would be overcome with a PC conversion.

I'd buy everyone of the above no problem.

As I said somewhere before maybe here, boardgame design and game mechanics as well as art from counters to maps is getting better not only in quality but also innovation. Sadly many PC wargames on the whole seem stuck in the old way of doing things, little or no innovation or nothing that really changes how you play a wargame that makes it play historically. Someone over at Command Ops (an amazing PC wargame by the way) said they are still waiting for a wargame that can recreate a certain situation, yet GD'42 can do exactly that, it's why it's on my list it also looks so much better than many many PC wargames. Or take urban\city fighting in a PC wargame, none have managed to do it well yet however a fair few boardgame scan do it and do it well. Boardgame art is in many games especially over recent years visually beautiful both maps and counters something many PC wargames lack. This really shouldn't be the case, infact the PC should lead the way both in mechanics and art. I suppose this is why I want to see all the games above converted. Not only for the AI but also the mechanics and art quality.

Thinking about it, maybe the game mechanics in board wargames are innovative in many cases because the designers have been designing wargames since the seventies or most likely alot longer time than our PC wargame developers. They have vast experience. They also work with what really is a restrictive medium, something again PC can overcome from to many rules to Fog of War issues, so maybe they really have to think in unique innovative ways when desiging a new wargame.

There is a boom in boardgames at the moment. Rock paper Shotgun a PC game website has a weekly boardgame section many love or take GMT games they converted a PC game Space Empires into a baordgame and are already on their 2nd reprint, people loved it. They are currently making some of their boardgame sin PC\Ipad games but not the wargames and again from what I've seen of the screens of Twilight Struggle are getting the art wrong or not upto scratch apparently the VASSAL module has better art. I really think Slitherine\Matrix to step in and talk with GMT about converting their wargames. They currently have PlayDek making some but they aren't experienced PC wargame publishers\developers. They have several of the titles I mentioned above.

Fianlly as mentioned above someone spent $300 for Streets of Stalingrad. So wargamers are willing to spend their money. If I was doing a PC conversion I think you should sell different types of packages, to give that tactile feel. Lest say basic is the download..or one up from that CD,Box and manual, then next tier CD,Box, Indepth Manual and small colour Map (very useful actually due to screen size compared to looking at the boardgame map on a table), then you could do one for even more money..give them the Box,CD,In depth Manual, Bigger Map, historical booklet on the battle and the leaders involved etc, OOB Chart, TOE chart, Terrain chart maybe even a book of photos of the battle as postcards, maybe a booklet of AAR's with colour photos from the boardgame and the PC game, maybe even a small discount of the price of the boardgame. Something along the lines of what many Kickstraters do with their pricing. This way your giving the PC conversion something tactile which is part of the beauty of boardgames by adding the stuff mentioned abpve your still giving the customer something tactile but for a price though I imagine the game would still be cheaper than the boardgame especially those monster out of print games. I'd even offer the extras on their own. SO say someone buys the basic digital download and loves the game they may decide to buy the map and historical booklet and charts etc or whatever it was that was in the higher tier versions.

< Message edited by wodin -- 10/31/2012 3:54:56 PM >


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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 10/31/2012 4:36:08 PM   
wodin


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Iain..any clue what games you have in mind or which publisher? Or is anything interesting up for grabs?

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/2/2012 12:00:56 AM   
SuluSea


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Thanks for the heads up Wodin. I have tight pockets because I bought a number of games I don't play but something like this done well would definately have my interest.






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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/2/2012 4:21:56 AM   
Rtwfreak

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

There are many many good board games out there and we're always looking for opportunities but most developers want to make their own game and not convert someone else's. This is why board game conversions are are rare but it is definitely something we're looking in to more as the board game and video game worlds come closer together.


I'd really like a conversion of the American Heritage game "Dogfight" as that was my favorite board wargame as a 12 year old. I don't like these real time flight simulators and there are few and far between turn based WWI air combat games. "Eagles" from the 80's is about the only one I could find an it on a commodore 64 but works well with an emulator for the PC. I found a play online version of one but it's too slow play (weeks sometimes before someone makes a move) and has no AI.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/2/2012 9:10:18 AM   
wodin


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RtwFreak..Wings of war or Wings of Glry i think would be the best for this sort of thing as it's a current very popular game..also now published by a new Italian coy who maybe up for a PC conversion. An Xbox version was in the making but the development team went under before it was finished.

For something more indepth then have a look at Bloody April a new game by GMT games..amazing game..would also make a great PC game and with the bonus that GMT are open for PC conversions.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/2/2012 2:06:42 PM   
ilovestrategy


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I would love a Martrix version of Federation and Empire. Oh yeah..........

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/2/2012 3:38:07 PM   
wodin


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Looks like we can all agree...boardgame to PC is an untapped market...

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/2/2012 4:39:59 PM   
Lützow


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

There are many many good board games out there and we're always looking for opportunities but most developers want to make their own game and not convert someone else's. This is why board game conversions are are rare but it is definitely something we're looking in to more as the board game and video game worlds come closer together.



Most devs didn't realize the opportunity of targeting new customers via AppStores. Tablets are the new board and make a perfect platform for every kind of turnbased strategy and boardgame-style titles. Just imagine how many copies a title like War between the States could sell there in comparison to the rather narrow audience of PC wargamers.

btw. DVG just submitted Phantom Leader to Apple Store.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/2/2012 4:41:56 PM   
wodin


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Yeah I wnat them on PC aswell thankyou very much. Tablets are a toy for people with money..I haven't I can only afford a PC. SO please PC conversions for the PC and tablets..Make them on unity and they are cross platform compatible.

Another major issue with tablets is screen size for monster wargames with big maps..games like the leader series are fine on a small screen...Streets of Stalingrad or many of the games I mentioned not so good, zooming out on them to see the whole situation you'd need super eyesight. Even my 19inch isn't that good for wargaming really and I have todo alot of scrolling..

< Message edited by wodin -- 11/2/2012 4:45:08 PM >


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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/2/2012 5:35:28 PM   
Lützow


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Screensize of a 10" Tablet isn't much of an issue if maps are scroll- and zoomable. User experience would be better as with the original WitP and it's fixed resolution of 1024x768.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/2/2012 9:37:53 PM   
Rtwfreak

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Yeah I wnat them on PC aswell thankyou very much. Tablets are a toy for people with money..I haven't I can only afford a PC. SO please PC conversions for the PC and tablets..Make them on unity and they are cross platform compatible.

Another major issue with tablets is screen size for monster wargames with big maps..games like the leader series are fine on a small screen...Streets of Stalingrad or many of the games I mentioned not so good, zooming out on them to see the whole situation you'd need super eyesight. Even my 19inch isn't that good for wargaming really and I have todo alot of scrolling..


But can't you plug in a big screen monitor (usb) into a tablet like a laptop or netbook? So you could feasably play on a large screen using a tablet?

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/3/2012 7:43:05 PM   
wodin


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yeah you could..but I only have one TV plus isn't that taking away from the bonus of being on a Tablet anyway and thats portability? May aswell have it on the PC and then the TV is still available to other members of the household.

Still I'd like them to be released on both formats. The IPad seems to be doing well in the respect but the PC is being left out.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/3/2012 11:52:46 PM   
Rtwfreak

 

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From what I read in the BARRON magazine the PC is on the way out though as a "normal" consumer means of computer type usage. Sales figures over the last couple of years have shown a drastic drop in PC sales vs the Tablet/IPads. Developers will go where the money is and thus PC gaming sales will be on the decline as well toward Tablets/Pads and Phones. Even Microsoft to keep up with where the market is heading came out with Windows 8 for it pretty quickly after Win7 in fact. The PC will become like an old car, some people will still drive them but most people will move up to the newer versions with more gadgets and accessories. I'm actually looking forward to it when all I'll need is a 12" square thinline like that new laptop I've been seeing on tv commercials that transforms from a regular laptop type PC to a Tablet....this is the future and more than probably the future of gaming.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/4/2012 12:35:34 AM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

From what I read in the BARRON magazine the PC is on the way out though as a "normal" consumer means of computer type usage. Sales figures over the last couple of years have shown a drastic drop in PC sales vs the Tablet/IPads. Developers will go where the money is and thus PC gaming sales will be on the decline as well toward Tablets/Pads and Phones. Even Microsoft to keep up with where the market is heading came out with Windows 8 for it pretty quickly after Win7 in fact. The PC will become like an old car, some people will still drive them but most people will move up to the newer versions with more gadgets and accessories. I'm actually looking forward to it when all I'll need is a 12" square thinline like that new laptop I've been seeing on tv commercials that transforms from a regular laptop type PC to a Tablet....this is the future and more than probably the future of gaming.


yet many developers are turning back to the PC..also the indie scene is blooming. Win 8 is a bad sign though. I was worried about tablets etc but alot of developers are saying the PC is where they really want to be, fed up with restrictive consoles tech and terms and conditions. Granted when the next gen comes out it will start all over again until three or four years down the line when they find that tech restricting them again.

I very much doubt people will want to play an FPS even on a tablet..there is always a balancing act between the different gaming products.

Also with tablets your taking away a few years worth of cpu power and graphic power..so thats a massive step backwards..also no I really don't want to be playing game son a 10 inch screen..if people wanted to do that we'd still be playing game son the old 15 inch screen..but no we want bigger and bigger screens. You really want to play Total war on a 10 inch screen? Also your total war wouldn't look anywhere near as good as it does now..so you'd have a massive downgrade in looks and performance..

The PC will always be around..even from a business standpoint. Business very rarely update their tech and I doubt very much all offices will be typing away on a 10 inch tablet.

I'm hoping we can all have our preferred way of gaming. Mine is the PC, it has the power and everything I want to be honest. Portability isn't an issue. Now I agree that tablets will take away the need for netbooks and maybe even laptops but never from the desktop. Besides it would hurt the graphic and hardware manufacturers to much.

I reckon Steam would end up building a new gaming machine based on the PC open platform and with upgradeable tech...they are already wanting to improve Linux as they see Win 8 being a threat to long term gaming development.

What your seeing in the adverts is the new Microsoft surface..

< Message edited by wodin -- 11/4/2012 12:38:06 AM >


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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/4/2012 1:38:03 AM   
Lützow


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Win 8 is the new Vista. Microsoft delivers too less and too late, like IBM did with OS/2 almost 20 years ago. Nobody needs or wants another AppStore. Myself, I'm currently considering a MacBook Pro as my next machine and might come back once MS releases a decent Windows again.

Some time ago the majority couldn't image to read on a Kindle, nowadays Amazon sells more e-books than printed issues already and in a few years we barely will see 'real' books anymore. Same will apply to Tablets and games.

Having said that, I don't believe in the demise of PC's. Devices like the iPad are nice for consuming content but insufficient for creating it.

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RE: Matrix\Slitherine..could you please.... - 11/4/2012 9:10:19 AM   
Iain McNeil


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I got my copy of Win 8 last week and spent most of the week trying to disable everything related to Win 8 which effectively makes it Win 7. I think its going to be a huge flop on desktop devices. Might be nice for tablets but I hated it with a mouse and keyboard.

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