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The Bane of Frozen Units!

 
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The Bane of Frozen Units! - 10/26/2012 10:05:58 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 431
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
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I really hate frozen units, escpecially those frozen for 999 turns. This is incredibly horrible scenario design. I can see where freezing units in place can help keep the Artificial Ignorance from moving units in a defensive position, like around Leningrad, away prematurely. However it's absolutely maddening to a human player to have units and never be able to do anything with them.

I've been playing the 1941 Barbarossa scenario as the Allies and on turn 9 or so I got the choice as the USSR whether I wanted the fortifications or the 200 PP. I decided that unlike my choice to eschew the Kiev fortifications I'd actually take the Leningrad fortifications. I had deployed two mech corps just north of Leningrad on the rail line the turn before. Imagine how peeved I was to find that those two good mech corps are now frozen for 999 turns as part of the Leningrad fortifications. I had owndered how fortifications being instantly built would affect units stationed in that area and in those hexes and unfortunately now I know. I was hoping that any units on fortification hexes would just be sent to the reserves to be deployed again while new units were put in those fortification hexes, or that they'd just be left in the hex without being frozen.

I've seen comments about how great the game is at giving us the "what if" situations that allow us to explore what if we did this move or that but frozen units completely take that what if decision making away from us. It would be great if frozen units only affected the AI as I can see where freezing units can help keep an AI from deserting important VP or PP hexes. A pity that there wasn't a game interface button for us to turn on or off frozen units.

Freezing units for 999 turns is just lazy, obviously no thought went into considering freezing them for a shorter, more reasonable amount of turns so that after some danger is past those units could be used by either human or AI player. I certainly hope that the scenario designer will go into every scenario and get rid of frozen units or if they need to be frozen give them a far more reasonable freeze time so that after some reasonable wait those units can move again.

I have seen frozen units that aren't frozen for 999 turns around Moscow in the 1941 scenario. That's the way all frozen units should be done if they have to be frozen. I'd hate to think that I'd have to get into the problematic editor and try to find every possible frozen unit and turn that off as I'm looking to play every country myself rather than put up with the AI play. Those frozen units really ruin my enjoyment of the game solitaire.

The other bad thing about frozen units is that they can't be upgraded because with zero AP's they're always considered to have moved. That makes them rather worthless in the long run aside from not being able to move them. Yeah you can put leaders and reinforcements into them but that's not a worthy consolation prize. I usually on the first turn decide whether frozen units have a useful purpose and if not I just disband them for the half PP's and to save that tiny little bit of upkeep each turn.

I sure hope I don't have to go into the problemtaic editor to try and find every frozen unit for every country not just for the setup but for every possioble event where frozen units may be placed. I bought this game to enjoy playing it, not fixing bad scenario design decisions before I can play it enjoyablly.

I know I've harped on a few things but I actually do like the basic game system and mechanics. I like how the tactical bombers can trash naval units and how carriers and their airstrikes and recons work. I love how the weather system is hex by hex. I love the fog of war system. Strategic bombing works nicely as does tactical bombing. I like the single phase turn system as that allows for a better flow of ground, air and naval actions. There are good scenario design decisions too, I liked how Germany gets PP rewards for capturing important cities like Leningrad and Moscow, or how the USSR can have it's combat efficiency downgraded because of huge losses early on. I like how amphibious assaults work and how one can properly place air and naval bombardment groups to assist amphibious assaults.
Omnius
Post #: 1
RE: The Bane of Frozen Units! - 10/27/2012 1:30:06 AM   
gwgardner

 

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You could go into the data files for saved game, and change those 999s to 0s. Use any text editor.

(in reply to Omnius)
Post #: 2
RE: The Bane of Frozen Units! - 10/27/2012 1:37:46 AM   
Chocolino


Posts: 1419
Joined: 2/14/2009
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Hi Omnius,

some - maybe all - of the long time frozen units become unfrozen via events. Often this is triggered when an enemy approaches.

I sometimes just disband frozen units early in the game. This appears wasteful at first. But if you consider that you are paying upkeep for potentially useless units over many turns, it is not so bad. You can then reinvest the (small) refund and purchase fully active units.

(in reply to Omnius)
Post #: 3
RE: The Bane of Frozen Units! - 10/28/2012 8:00:13 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 1687
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chocolino

Hi Omnius,

some - maybe all - of the long time frozen units become unfrozen via events. Often this is triggered when an enemy approaches.

I sometimes just disband frozen units early in the game. This appears wasteful at first. But if you consider that you are paying upkeep for potentially useless units over many turns, it is not so bad. You can then reinvest the (small) refund and purchase fully active units.


I also disband frozen units that I don't want and replace them with new mobile units, I treat the cost as the payment to upgrade low class city guard units.


_____________________________

"We have to go from where we are, not from where we would like to be" - me

(in reply to Chocolino)
Post #: 4
RE: The Bane of Frozen Units! - 11/2/2012 4:20:30 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 431
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline
Yeah I've gotten down to where I just disband frozen units for 999 turns for the half PP return and the reduced future upkeep. However that's bogus and wasteful.

What I despise about frozen units is how useless they become. Nothing looks more idiotic than seeing that German unit in Iraklion in the 1941 Barbarossa scenario sitting there while a British/Greek partisan unit is adjacent and the German unit can never attack it. The German unit remains frozen despite being attacked by British fleets. Just flaming stupid!

This game does frozen units worse than any game, board or computer, that I've ever played. Pinning a unit in place is one thing, but to make it absolutely useless is a travesty. I understand pinning units upgraded for size for a set number of turns. Just pin them in place, don't zero out their movement so they can defend themselves or upgrade tech level. Being able to add reinforcements is nice but it's a pathetic consolation prize.

When a frozen unit gets attacked it must be unfrozen immediately. This does not happen now.

Still it comes down to having a fun gaming experience that isn't so frustrating with artificially frozen units. Let me decide what I want to do, do not dictate to me what I can or can't do with units as long as what I want to do is reasonable and within historical reality. As France let me decide if I want to keep units in North Africa or if I want to ship them all off to France before Germany attacks in 1940. As Germany or France let me decide what I want to do with units along the common border. I saw the French event about unfreezing units in the Maginot Line for an attack but the penalties of early unfreezing are too stiff to accept.

Like I said frozen units in ToF are the worst I've ever seen in any game I've ever played and I've played quite a few over the many decades of gaming. I hope that this gets improved as it is a true detriment to having fun.
Omnius

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 5
RE: The Bane of Frozen Units! - 11/2/2012 4:51:35 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 431
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

You could go into the data files for saved game, and change those 999s to 0s. Use any text editor.


gwgardner,
I shouldn't have to mess around trying to go through those huge data files trying to find every 999 and change it to zero. Heck I might change a 999 that relates to something else and mess things up. I bought this game to play, not have to learn a programming language to figure out how to change the data files so I can fix a poor design decision before I can play. I even tried downloading and installing the editor but it isn't working.
Omnius

(in reply to gwgardner)
Post #: 6
RE: The Bane of Frozen Units! - 11/2/2012 8:03:45 PM   
gwgardner

 

Posts: 3422
Joined: 4/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius


quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

You could go into the data files for saved game, and change those 999s to 0s. Use any text editor.


gwgardner,
I shouldn't have to mess around trying to go through those huge data files trying to find every 999 and change it to zero. Heck I might change a 999 that relates to something else and mess things up. I bought this game to play, not have to learn a programming language to figure out how to change the data files so I can fix a poor design decision before I can play. I even tried downloading and installing the editor but it isn't working.
Omnius


I don't care if you do the edit. I'm just telling you it's possible, in case you want to continue your game without the frozen unit. You're welcome.

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 11/2/2012 8:04:01 PM >

(in reply to Omnius)
Post #: 7
Thanks - 11/3/2012 3:32:16 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 431
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline
gwgardner,
Thanks for the tip about being able to edit the data files which I already knew. Still that's a daunting task and trying to find every instance of units setup or arriving as reinforcements or being frozen by some event seems a tad too much. I'm hoping I can get the editor installed properly.
Omnius

(in reply to gwgardner)
Post #: 8
RE: Thanks - 11/3/2012 7:30:17 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5320
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline
Omnius, you don't have to learn programming to change all 999 to 0 in csv file.
All you have to do is to know Excel's basics basics.

(in reply to Omnius)
Post #: 9
RE: Thanks - 11/8/2012 3:36:57 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 431
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Omnius, you don't have to learn programming to change all 999 to 0 in csv file.
All you have to do is to know Excel's basics basics.



doomtrader,
While changing things in a text editor sounds easy I'm concerned that there may be uses of "999" for other things and changing that would mess something else up. Still the frozenj units in ToF is the absolute worst I've ever seen in any game. Even after being attacked and retreated frozen units stay frozen, that's crazy.

I'm still waiting on word about my saved game file that I sent you earlier about the Egypt supply problem I saw for German and Italian units going past that El Alamein line. Did you see the problem? Did you fix the problem so Axis untis can receive supply from El Alamein past that fortification line? After going through the trouble of creating a saved game file for you to see the problem it sure would be nice to get some feedback.
Omnius

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 10
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