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Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a

 
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Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 5:20:47 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 4755
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online
Since I installed the new beta a few days ago I have experienced some crazy fragmentation. I posted in the beta thread but don´t want to clutter it with combat reports. Here is what I think is a good example. Same place, same weather, same settings, same units. Only thing that has changed is that we applied the patch.

Pre patch

quote:

Morning Air attack on 56th Division, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 44
LB-30 Liberator x 3
B-24D Liberator x 50
B-24D1 Liberator x 45


Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 2 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
169 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 12 (2 destroyed, 10 disabled)

Morning Air attack on 9th Division, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 29 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes


Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 12


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Aircraft Attacking:
12 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb





After patch

quote:

Morning Air attack on 56th Division, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 70 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 15
LB-30 Liberator x 15
B-24D Liberator x 15
B-24D1 Liberator x 6

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
122 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
15 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Also attacking 17th Army ...
Also attacking 9th Division ...
Also attacking 4th Tank Regiment ...
Also attacking 9th Division ...
Also attacking 44th Field AA Battalion ...
Also attacking 56th Division ...
Also attacking 9th Division ...
Also attacking 56th Division ...
Also attacking 9th Division ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 56th Division, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 59 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 18

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
58 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Also attacking 9th Division ...
Also attacking 124th Infantry Regiment ...
Also attacking 56th Division ...
Also attacking 9th Division ...
Also attacking 56th Division ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 9th Division, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 8

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
35 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Also attacking 2nd Tank Regiment ...
Also attacking 9th Division ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 124th Infantry Regiment, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 56 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 11

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
49 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Also attacking 97th JAAF AF Bn ...
Also attacking 124th Infantry Regiment ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 17th Army, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 9

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 97th JAAF AF Bn , at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
52 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 9th Division, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 8

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 56th Division, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 29 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 7

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 9th Division, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
65 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 4th Tank Regiment, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 21 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 8

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2nd Tank Regiment, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 9

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 9th Division, at 49,133 (Carnarvon)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 70 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 6

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
23 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb


Another example of "extreme" fragmentation:

quote:

Morning Air attack on Merauke , at 89,124

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 47 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 21

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x F4U-1 Corsair sweeping at 31000 feet

Morning Air attack on Merauke , at 89,124


Morning Air attack on Merauke , at 89,124

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 3

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x F4U-1 Corsair sweeping at 31000 feet


This is just a few examples I found by going through the latest combat reports. I´m getting this all over the map now. Besides being a PITA pressing the escape key 54 times per strike this is making bombing runs against any kind of CAP more or less impossible without suffering unbearable losses. The escorts attach themselves to one or two, possible 3 of the 10-20 fragments making all other fragments go in without any escorts. With predictable results of course...

I don´t know what has caused this change or if its intentional or unintentional? If its intentional it has to be toned down a lot as it just crazy right now. If its unintentional could we please get a fix?




< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/17/2012 5:23:02 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 5:33:26 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5658
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
This is more than I have typically seen in my games.  As I mentioned in the other thread, I generally see ONE fragmentation per TURN ... and they are generally a frag of 3 planes.

No explanation for what you are seeing, never seen that.  I have upgraded to the latest beta, but I haven't had a chance to run a turn yet ... 

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 2
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 5:52:25 AM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 14614
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
I see lots too...

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/site/staffmonkeys/

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 3
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 5:52:33 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 4755
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online
Almost every strike in our game after the patch have fragmented. Some sweeps arrive intact but any kind of strike mission gets fragmented almost into squadrons.

Here is another example:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 32
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 7
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 43
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 48
Ki-61-Ib Tony x 8

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 18
Blenheim VD x 3
Liberator II x 3
B-17F Fortress x 12
B-24D1 Liberator x 45
B-25C Mitchell x 45
B-26 Marauder x 15
P-38E Lightning x 6
P-38F Lightning x 7
P-40K Warhawk x 32
P-40N5 Warhawk x 6
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 3 destroyed, 6 damaged
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-61-Ib Tony: 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Blenheim VD: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-17F Fortress: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 1 destroyed
B-26 Marauder: 2 damaged
P-38E Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-38F Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 3 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 34
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 77

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Blenheim IV bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
3 x Blenheim VD bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
2 x Blenheim IV bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
3 x Liberator II bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
15 x B-26 Marauder bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
14 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
14 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 7 scrambling)
21 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 35690.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 82 minutes
11th Sentai with Ki-43-IIb Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 7 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
13th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 12 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 16 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 35000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 8 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
19 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 5 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 19000 and 36000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 74 minutes
27th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 21000 and 35200.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
47th I.F.Chutai with Ki-61-Ib Tony (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
54th Sentai Det A with Ki-61-Ib Tony (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 21030.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
64th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (10 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 31000
Raid is overhead



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 31
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 4
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 35
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 31
Ki-61-Ib Tony x 3

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 15
Wellington Ic x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
B-25C Mitchell x 6
P-38E Lightning x 9
P-38F Lightning x 9
P-40K Warhawk x 43
P-40N5 Warhawk x 6
F6F-3 Hellcat x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-61-Ib Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 6 destroyed, 2 damaged
Wellington Ic: 1 destroyed
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-38F Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 4 destroyed

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Blenheim IV bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
1 x Wellington Ic bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 7 scrambling)
18 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 34000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 75 minutes
29 planes vectored on to bombers
11th Sentai with Ki-43-IIb Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 86 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
13th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 8 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 34000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 75 minutes
16 planes vectored on to bombers
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 7 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 7 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 36000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
18 planes vectored on to bombers
27th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
54th Sentai Det A with Ki-61-Ib Tony (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
64th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
47th I.F.Chutai with Ki-61-Ib Tony (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 30
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 3
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 25
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 22
Ki-61-Ib Tony x 1

Allied aircraft
Blenheim VD x 12
Wellington Ic x 6
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 3
B-25C Mitchell x 12
B-26B Marauder x 3
P-38F Lightning x 2
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 3 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 destroyed
Ki-61-Ib Tony: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim VD: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
Wellington Ic: 1 destroyed
B-25C Mitchell: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 7

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Blenheim VD bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
2 x Wellington Ic bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x Wellington Ic bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-26B Marauder bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
21 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
27 planes vectored on to bombers
11th Sentai with Ki-43-IIb Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
13th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
11 planes vectored on to bombers
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
17 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
15 planes vectored on to bombers
27th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 22170.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
64th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters to 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 86 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
47th I.F.Chutai with Ki-61-Ib Tony (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 25
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 1
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 17
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 12
Ki-61-Ib Tony x 1

Allied aircraft
Wellington Ic x 12
P-38F Lightning x 2
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington Ic: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Wellington Ic bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
19 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 81 minutes
17 planes vectored on to bombers
11th Sentai with Ki-43-IIb Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
13th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
13 planes vectored on to bombers
64th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 31000
Raid is overhead
27th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
47th I.F.Chutai with Ki-61-Ib Tony (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
1 planes vectored on to bombers



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 50 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 21
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 1
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 10
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 8
Ki-61-Ib Tony x 1

Allied aircraft
Wellington Ic x 12
P-38E Lightning x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 3 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington Ic: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x Wellington Ic bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (11 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) intercepting now.
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
11th Sentai with Ki-43-IIb Oscar (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
13th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
64th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes
47th I.F.Chutai with Ki-61-Ib Tony (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 11
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 1
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 6
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 5

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 12
P-40N5 Warhawk x 3
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 8
F6F-3 Hellcat x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Blenheim IV bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 214 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
11th Sentai with Ki-43-IIb Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
13th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 67 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
64th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters to 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 4
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 5
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 2

Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 12
P-40N5 Warhawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Liberator II bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
64th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
13th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 1
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 2
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 1

Allied aircraft
Wellington Ic x 12
P-38E Lightning x 5
P-40N5 Warhawk x 3
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 7

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Wellington Ic bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 69 minutes
64th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
25th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
13th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 1

Allied aircraft
B-26B Marauder x 12
P-38E Lightning x 5
F6F-3 Hellcat x 7

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-26B Marauder bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
251 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9
P-40N5 Warhawk x 2
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 7

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 8
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 9
P-38E Lightning x 5
P-38F Lightning x 2
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 14
F6F-3 Hellcat x 7

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 14
B-24D1 Liberator x 14

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 40

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 16
B-24D Liberator x 15
B-24D1 Liberator x 11

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 17

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6
LB-30 Liberator x 3

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 59 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 3

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 10

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 49 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 7

No Allied losses

Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 7
B-24D Liberator x 7

No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 58 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 6

No Allied losses

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
P-38E Lightning x 5
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 7
F6F-3 Hellcat x 7

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 50 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 9
P-38E Lightning x 5
P-38F Lightning x 2
P-40N5 Warhawk x 2
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 14
F6F-3 Hellcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed on ground

No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 48 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 8

No Allied losses

Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 53 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 8

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 9
P-38F Lightning x 2
P-40N5 Warhawk x 2
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 7
F6F-3 Hellcat x 7

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 12

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x P-38G Lightning sweeping at 31000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 24 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
P-38E Lightning x 5
P-38F Lightning x 2
P-40N5 Warhawk x 2

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 48 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
P-38E Lightning x 5
P-40N5 Warhawk x 2
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 14

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
P-38F Lightning x 2
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 14
F6F-3 Hellcat x 7

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 64 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
P-38E Lightning x 5
P-38F Lightning x 2
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 60 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-40N1 Warhawk x 23
P-40N5 Warhawk x 2
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 7

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x P-40N1 Warhawk sweeping at 15000 feet *



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-38F Lightning x 2
P-38G Lightning x 23
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 7

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x P-38G Lightning sweeping at 31000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Exmouth , at 50,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 68 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 9

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x P-38G Lightning sweeping at 31000 feet
3 x P-38G Lightning sweeping at 31000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Mandalay , at 59,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 39,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-38E Lightning x 5
P-40N5 Warhawk x 2
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 30

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x P-47D2 Thunderbolt sweeping at 35000 feet



That is two strikes (Exmouth and Mandalay) fragmenting into 33(!!!) different strikes. Note the rain over Exmouth though.


< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/17/2012 5:57:14 AM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 4
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 6:40:54 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Yep. It's even happening with sweeps. A sweep will go in and be in three segments rather than the usual big group then small 2 plane follow-up.

I'm not sure this is a bad thing. Remember the 200 passes. For late game especially this could be good. If fragments are meant to be smaller sections of the sky as planes pass over the target this seems to be more realistic and also can allow for results that are less beneficial to the extreme player trying to 'game' the system with ablative armor escorts to get ALL of the bombers through.

Also, this does not seem to improve the chances of the defense to take out the offensive mission more effectively in the smaller chunks, at least in the few turns we've played. In the above raid Jocke posted the many late arriving pieces had a free shot at the field due to the CAP getting worn down by so many strikes.

I'd be interested in opinions from more experienced players, but I'm curious if this won't actually address some issues that have been major concerns for the late game especially. I'm curious to see how this plays out in CV battles.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 5
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 7:00:12 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 4755
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online
EDIT:

Added two more examples.

So I did a quick test during the nigh. Gotta love having a newborn! Not very scientific but enough to convince me something major has changed. This is just a few examples from the combat report. They are all like this. I probably ran it 50 times. Regardless of what weather there is, the differences are all like this.

Sandbox game. 1 base. level 9 AF. 1 AirHQ 75 AS. 4 Squadrons of B25s. Range 4 hexes. Exactly the same scenario in both Pre and after Patch tests.

Thunderstorms:

Pre Patch:

quote:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 14, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 11th Air Fleet, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 48


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
91 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Also attacking 1st Base Force ...
Also attacking 11th Air Fleet ...
Also attacking 1st Base Force ...
Also attacking 11th Air Fleet ...
Also attacking 1st Base Force ...
Also attacking 11th Air Fleet ...
Also attacking 1st Base Force ...
Also attacking 11th Air Fleet ...
Also attacking 1st Base Force ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 11th Air Fleet, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb




After Patch:

quote:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 09, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Base Force, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
49 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Base Force, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 11th Air Fleet, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 11th Air Fleet, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
43 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



Clear Sky:

Pre Patch:

quote:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 07, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 11th Air Fleet, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 64


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
278 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 65 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



After Patch:

quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 11th Air Fleet, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 9 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
107 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 27 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 11th Air Fleet, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 11th Air Fleet, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 11th Air Fleet, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 4 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
90 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 20 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



Overcast

Pre Patch:

quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 11th Air Fleet, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 48


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
113 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 39 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Also attacking 1st Base Force ...
Also attacking 11th Air Fleet ...
Also attacking 1st Base Force ...
Also attacking 11th Air Fleet ...
Also attacking 1st Base Force ...
Also attacking 11th Air Fleet ...
Also attacking 1st Base Force ...
Also attacking 11th Air Fleet ...
Also attacking 1st Base Force ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Base Force, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
33 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled



Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb


After Patch:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Base Force, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 1 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 0 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
97 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Base Force, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 32

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
95 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Base Force, at 57,47 (Magwe)

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 7 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
53 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb







< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/17/2012 7:46:26 AM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 6
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 7:19:27 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 4755
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Yep. It's even happening with sweeps. A sweep will go in and be in three segments rather than the usual big group then small 2 plane follow-up.

I'm not sure this is a bad thing. Remember the 200 passes. For late game especially this could be good. If fragments are meant to be smaller sections of the sky as planes pass over the target this seems to be more realistic and also can allow for results that are less beneficial to the extreme player trying to 'game' the system with ablative armor escorts to get ALL of the bombers through.

Also, this does not seem to improve the chances of the defense to take out the offensive mission more effectively in the smaller chunks, at least in the few turns we've played. In the above raid Jocke posted the many late arriving pieces had a free shot at the field due to the CAP getting worn down by so many strikes.

I'd be interested in opinions from more experienced players, but I'm curious if this won't actually address some issues that have been major concerns for the late game especially. I'm curious to see how this plays out in CV battles.


Erik,

I see your reasoning. But consider what had happened if the LRCAP hadn't taken any part in the strike? I just counted real quick but it looks like the actual escort only protected about 25% of the strike. So only 5 fragments of 20 got any escort protection. Would you conduct any airstrikes under those conditions? Imagine the losses if there hadn't been any unintentional LRCAP.

This basically means that doing any bombing missions against any kind of CAP will be extremely costly. Two strikes were enough to knock the RAF more or less out for 12-18 months.

Only way to do it without suffering crazy losses would be to abuse the LRCAP function to get "LRCAP escort" for your strikes.

If you assume that this has changed carrier coordination too I see some major problems. You will get lots and lots of fragments going up against a solid CAP making it almost impossible to break through at first. But after a while the fragments (although taking heavy losses) will eventually get through unopposed. Even a few 2-10 plane fragments can take out a few carriers. Striving for getting as many fragments as possible doesn´t sound like something we would want in the game?

Now consider the above against LBA...



(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 7
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 2:26:49 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
PS - We are using the new patch as of 14/10/12: 1119a

Maybe if we're getting something other people are not, it's from this version only?

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 8
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 2:28:45 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 5986
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/now in Israel
Status: offline
I just don't see it...but I am playing DBB and Babes Lite...I don't know it that causes that I just cannot duplicate it. (and I use same 1119a)

I'll check more thoroughly after I get from work.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 10/17/2012 2:30:58 PM >


_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 9
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 3:18:11 PM   
koniu

 

Posts: 2152
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline
I am playing 17e and also i am experiencing fragmentation. Docup can confirm that before we update i have never seen raids fragmented to 10-15 waves. Usually we have two 3 waves.

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 10
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 4:01:57 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 4755
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online
Weird that some people get this and some don´t seem to?

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 11
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 5:22:45 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Ok. I don't have time to post much since I'm due to get wine for dinner guests NOW.

Anyway, a few things I noticed in some tests. A CV battle on Dec 12 had no problems with coordination but it was only a 2 on 2 affair. Here is that one.

--------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 163,96

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 50
D3A1 Val x 37

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
F4F-3A Wildcat x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 4 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 2 destroyed
F4F-3A Wildcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Lamson
CA Chicago, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Porter
DD Mahan
CA Portland
CA Astoria, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
23 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(12 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Lexington


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 167,96

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 21 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 10
SB2U-3 Vindicator x 17
SBD-2 Dauntless x 17
SBD-3 Dauntless x 17

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 2 destroyed
SB2U-3 Vindicator: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
SBD-2 Dauntless: 5 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Bomb hits 1
CV Zuikaku
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 3, on fire
BB Hiei

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 167,96

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 16 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 10

Allied aircraft
TBD-1 Devastator x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBD-1 Devastator: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBD-1 Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 66 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 163,96

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15
B5N2 Kate x 36
D3A1 Val x 42

Allied aircraft
F4F-3A Wildcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 4 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 5 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3A Wildcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CA Salt Lake City, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Balch
CA Chester, Bomb hits 2
DD Fanning
DD Dunlap

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
19 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
16 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Enterprise


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Laysan Island at 167,96

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17

Allied aircraft
F4F-3A Wildcat x 6
SBD-2 Dauntless x 34
TBD-1 Devastator x 14

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed
SBD-2 Dauntless: 4 destroyed, 4 damaged
SBD-2 Dauntless: 2 destroyed by flak
TBD-1 Devastator: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku
CV Zuikaku
BB Kirishima

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x TBD-1 Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 3 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 12
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 5:25:51 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
No things get interesting. I set one up for the IJ and for the Allies. The first day only 3 groups of Helens going from the same base, Rangoon, hit Akyab well fairly well coordinated, but still in two big chunks, not one as I'm pretty used to seeing.

Allies sending 4Es to Port Moresby were all over the place, with many raid fragments arriving in small pieces. No CAP in either attack.

----------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 36
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 60

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 2 damaged

Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 15

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
29 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 24 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 31
Mitchell II x 5
B-24D Liberator x 3

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x Mitchell II bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 28 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17F Fortress x 16
B-24D Liberator x 3

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 17

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 31 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 10

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 3
B-17F Fortress x 7
B-24D Liberator x 3

No Allied losses

Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17F Fortress x 7

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 7

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 7

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 7

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 7

No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 23 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 7

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb





_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 13
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 5:28:25 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
When I added more bombers of different types from different bases, plus more escorts to Akyab for the IJ, the coordination went all over the place much like the Allied strike. They still did get some big chunks in, but many caller unescorted pieces arrived, which is different than what I've experienced in my games at least in the previous patch.

The Allies were still all over the shop.
-------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 37

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
37 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 20000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 22 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 31
B5N2 Kate x 5
G4M1 Betty x 33
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 42

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
5 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 32 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 30

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged

Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
30 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 42 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

No Japanese losses

Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 28
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 30

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 28 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 15

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 42 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 6
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 55

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
24 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
9 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 4

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 20000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 27
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 damaged
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 7

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-45 KAIa Nick bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 damaged

Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 23 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 22
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 36

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 4
B-17F Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 3

No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Mitchell II bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 22 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17F Fortress x 13
B-24D Liberator x 3

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 10

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17F Fortress x 6
B-24D Liberator x 3

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17F Fortress x 7

No Allied losses

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-17F Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 32 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 7

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 7

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 7

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 48 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 7

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 48 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6

No Allied losses

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 damaged
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed by flak

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Ki-45 KAIa Nick bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb





_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 14
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/17/2012 10:39:10 PM   
jcjordan

 

Posts: 1742
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline
Now that I've really been watching for this, I seemed to notice that this behavior started somewhere in the late 1117 early 1118 betas for me. Before the patch (not sure exactly which now) I'd have the 100-200 plane raids then maybe a few straggler raids but now it seems as though all my raids are fragmented even those coming from the same base to the same target. At first I just thought it was bad die rolls/weather related but it happens every turn. I would assume something has probably creeped back in.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 15
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/18/2012 3:26:08 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5658
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I just don't see it...but I am playing DBB and Babes Lite...I don't know it that causes that I just cannot duplicate it. (and I use same 1119a)

I'll check more thoroughly after I get from work.

+1

ran 5 turns ... nothing unusual for me. Now, as stated earlier, I have ALWAYS seen the 3 plane fragments. BUT, nothing like what you are seeing. I will see 1 fragment per turn ... sometimes two if it is a high tempo turn.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 16
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/18/2012 3:44:00 AM   
JeffK


Posts: 5150
Joined: 1/26/2005
From: Back in the Office, Can I get my tin hut back!
Status: offline
Not loading it till the bugs have been squashed.

Thanks for being Guinea Pigs guys

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 17
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/18/2012 6:17:02 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 2453
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
Interesting comment from Obvert in post #13. I wonder if mixing aircraft models causes problems. For sure they would have different speed/climb rates etc. and this would make it difficult to keep them together IRL.
Thanks for all the test effort guys; I just fear it is not going to be fixed because Matrix has already withdrawn support for changes to the game engine. I'm not sure Michael M can do anything without major programming and testing efforts that would require a development team.

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to JeffK)
Post #: 18
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/18/2012 9:07:10 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 4755
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online
I don´t think models have anything to do with it. In my sandbox all 4 squadrons used the same plane!

Made some more quick tests this morning:
Did a clean install, made two copies, installed the latest beta on one install and the latest official on one. Loaded up my previous sandbox and ran 20 bombing runs. Didn´t note the weather this time as the differences are obvious without it...

There are four 16 plane squadrons. I just took notes on how many squadrons coordinated.
1 - 4 x 16
2 - 2 x 16, 1 x 32
3 - 2 x 32
4 - 1 x 16, 1 x 48
5 - 1 x 64

Beta patch
Out of 20 runs:
1 - 6 times
2 - 14 times
3 - 0 times
4 - 0 times
5 - 0 times

Strangely enough 3 times only 2 squadrons took off. I did not include those. Might have been some failed checks.

Latest official
1 - 0 times
2 - 0 times
3 - 1 times
4 - 4 times
5 - 15 times

Again, this is from a clean install. Exactly the same scenario. Only difference is the latest beta patch. Differences are glaringly obvious. Something, intentional or unintentional have messed up coordination is the latest beta.

What I find really weird is that so far only four games are affected. I thought perhaps a clean install should sort this but as seen that didn´t help...

If I find the time today I will try and do an additional 30 runs on each install. But we are going to IKEA today.


< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/18/2012 9:34:46 AM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 19
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/18/2012 10:58:46 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Interesting comment from Obvert in post #13. I wonder if mixing aircraft models causes problems. For sure they would have different speed/climb rates etc. and this would make it difficult to keep them together IRL.
Thanks for all the test effort guys; I just fear it is not going to be fixed because Matrix has already withdrawn support for changes to the game engine. I'm not sure Michael M can do anything without major programming and testing efforts that would require a development team.


I've been doing some further tests that I won't have time to post until later today. Very interesting though.

In the official patch when I added multiple plane types from different bases I get uncoordinated strikes, as should be the case for just the reasons you mention; speed, distance, weather, etc. But, if I use the exact same settings with patch 1119a the coordination is many times worse. In the simple version I ran three groups of Helens 8 hexes from Rangoon to Akyab escorted by one 36 plane group of Oscar Ic. In the official patch they ALL arrived together 5 turns in a row. In the new patch several times there were two groups and a few times there were 3 groups of planes, not all from one unit either, but mixed groups. These are all 70exp/70ground bomb skill pilots with good leaders.

I wanted to test simple situations and complex ones. I think many players might not be seeing this because they are used to differences between turns and might not have come up against a really glaring example yet of how this works.

In the other test I'm running 4Es from a single base, Charter Towers, with HQ, great leader, good group leaders and plenty of support. They are flying 15 hexes to attack Port Moresby. In the official patch there are some groups coming in late, but the majority coordinate. In the new patch even the same group will split into parts at times and come in very small 3 plane chunks while the first 'coordinated' raid is much smaller. I'll post later. I've run maybe 10 turns on each patch and seen the same thing more or less every time. Some variation as always due to weather.

I am about to run some LBA against IJN CVs and see if there is a noticeable difference there.

< Message edited by obvert -- 10/18/2012 11:55:22 AM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 20
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/18/2012 11:27:15 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Here are the results of some tests run in the exact same situation in each game version. I ran them for both the Japanese and the Allied sides. The basic conclusion is that coordination is sporadic or non-existent in the new patch, where in the same situation in the official patch it is present most of the time. While this is a small sample of 10 turns it's so easy to see the differences there is very little doubt that this is happening differently in these versions.

Allies

There are nine 4E squadrons of 12 planes each in Charters Towers. A total of 108 planes. They are flying to Port Moresby, 15 hexes. Settings are: 10k, airfield attack, 10% rest. The field is size 7 and there is double the needed support plus 2 HQs there. All pilots are 50-60 exp / 55-70 gnd attack skill. Group leaders have high inspiration, averaging 60.

0 - 5 or more separate raids
1 - 4 raids
2 - 3 raids
3 - 2 raids
4 - 1 raid - some groups not flying
5 - 1 raid - all groups present

Beta patch
Out of 10 runs:
0 - 10 times (4 times it was 8 separate packages of bombers, once it was 9)
1 - 0 times
2 - 0 times
3 - 0 times
4 - 0 times
5 - 0 times

Latest official
Out of 10 runs:
0 - 0 times
1 - 0 times
2 - 1 times
3 - 5 times
4 - 0 times
5 - 4 times

Japan

There are 5 groups of 2E IJAAF bombers at Rangoon. Three groups of Helens-2 x 31 and 1 x 27. One group Lily x 27. One grip Sally x 31. A total of 147 planes. They are flying 8 hexes to Akyab. The field is size 8 with more support than needed plus 2 HQs there. All pilots are 60-70 exp / 60-70 gnd attack skill. Group leaders have high inspiration, averaging 60.

0 - 5 or more separate raids
1 - 4 raids
2 - 3 raids
3 - 2 raids
4 - 1 raid - some groups not flying
5 - 1 raid - all groups present

Beta patch
Out of 10 runs:
0 - 0 times
1 - 2 times
2 - 5 times
3 - 1 times
4 - 1 times (1 turn the weather prohibited any groups from flying)
5 - 0 times

Latest official
Out of 10 runs:
0 - 0 times
1 - 0 times
2 - 0 times
3 - 4 times
4 - 0 times
5 - 6 times




< Message edited by obvert -- 10/19/2012 12:02:05 AM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 21
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/19/2012 2:12:08 AM   
Kull


Posts: 1057
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Only change between 1108r9 and this beta that would impact a/c packages would be the removal of the max cap of 250 AV.
Comparing code between r9 and beta for co-ordination the random chance was raised from 100 to 150. This seems to be due to the fact the 'command presence' often came out at 100+ which meant that co-ordination was a given.
Prior to beta, co-ordination was probably to high.
As this wasn't a planned fix, ....


It certainly sounds like Michael found a problem, fixed it, and the result is a fundamental change in the game's mechanics. Based on the last comment in the quote (emphasis added), it seems likely this is going to be rolled back until the issue can be explored in more depth.

< Message edited by Kull -- 10/19/2012 2:13:33 AM >


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AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 22
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/19/2012 7:02:23 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 4755
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Only change between 1108r9 and this beta that would impact a/c packages would be the removal of the max cap of 250 AV.
Comparing code between r9 and beta for co-ordination the random chance was raised from 100 to 150. This seems to be due to the fact the 'command presence' often came out at 100+ which meant that co-ordination was a given.
Prior to beta, co-ordination was probably to high.
As this wasn't a planned fix, ....


It certainly sounds like Michael found a problem, fixed it, and the result is a fundamental change in the game's mechanics. Based on the last comment in the quote (emphasis added), it seems likely this is going to be rolled back until the issue can be explored in more depth.


Hello Kull,

Thats probably a correct assessment. We decided to go back to the latest official as this could probably take quite some time to sort out!

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 23
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/19/2012 7:10:23 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Michael's original response was only the first line of that post IIRC, but it was changed to add the change in coordination calculation yesterday. I'm wondering what the ... mean exactly?!

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 24
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/19/2012 10:23:52 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 9081
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: online
... undo.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 25
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/19/2012 11:32:41 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 5986
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/now in Israel
Status: offline
Great!

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(in reply to michaelm)
Post #: 26
RE: Fragmentation in Public Beta 1119a - 10/19/2012 2:48:14 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Thanks for all!!!



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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 27
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