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Scenario 1 v. 2

 
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Scenario 1 v. 2 - 10/14/2012 9:40:09 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 15254
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online 		My esteemed opponent AW1Steve and I have recently started a scenario 2 PBEM. This is my first scenario 2 campaign, so I'm not really sure of the advantages in terms of additional LCUs or ships. It doesn't look as if I have a whole ton of new goodies in these categories, but I could be wrong.

I know I get a lot more stockpiled resources, oil, fuel and supply. I also know that some ship types are more readily accessible (e.g., doesn't Shinano come in as an Unryu class, thereby making acceleration more feasible?)

Is there a list of specific LCU and ship advantages comparing scenario 2 to scenario 1?

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RE: Scenario 1 v. 2 - 10/14/2012 10:13:23 PM   
Omat


Posts: 538
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline 		Hello

May this Link is ok for you

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2602047&mpage=1&key=scen%EF%BF%BD

I know there was a list but i could not find them...sorry

As far as I know Scn. 2 have more for the japanese side to play. But some say that the chance in scn. 2 to break the Japanese Industry greater than scn. 1.

Omat



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RE: Scenario 1 v. 2 - 10/14/2012 10:14:11 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12442
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online 		I haven't played 2, but from reading AARs...

People talk about several extra infantry divisions for the IJA. Perhaps some of them arrive after Dec 7 '41. Also maybe there were some unrestricted that in Scen 1 were stuck on defense?

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RE: Scenario 1 v. 2 - 10/14/2012 10:21:35 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 15254
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I haven't played 2, but from reading AARs...

People talk about several extra infantry divisions for the IJA. Perhaps some of them arrive after Dec 7 '41. Also maybe there were some unrestricted that in Scen 1 were stuck on defense?

I haven't found any yet, although we're still in December 1941. Anyone in the know point me in the right direction?


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RE: Scenario 1 v. 2 - 10/14/2012 10:27:50 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 15254
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Omat

Hello

May this Link is ok for you

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2602047&mpage=1&key=scen%EF%BF%BD

I know there was a list but i could not find them...sorry

As far as I know Scn. 2 have more for the japanese side to play. But some say that the chance in scn. 2 to break the Japanese Industry greater than scn. 1.

Omat




Helpful thread, Omat. Thanks. Here's the summary that I got from that:

Q-ball:

From a ground level, here is what you get Scen 2:

1. FUEL: You get more FUEL and SUPPLY at-start, particularly at Truk, Saigon, and other key places
2. WARSHIPS: You get more DDs early (4 more at-start), plus more in the queue; about 6-8 extra in 1942, and a whole Shimakaze-class later in 1943/44. You also get 3 extra AGANOs in the queue. You have to pay for all this of course with HI.
3. CVs: You don't get ANY extra CVs; however, SHINANO is now a Taiho-class CV, and the CVEs come in with organic airgroups (useful!)
4. AIR: You get lots of extra air units, particularly the IJN AIR is expanded, with more Zeros, Bettys, and other stuff in particular
5. PILOTS: You get more added to the pool every month; this is actually a MINUS, though, as you get more than you really need, and it chews up piles of HI.
6. LCUs: There are lots of extra LCU goodies; primarily, 4 extra divisions in 1942 (4th,5th,and 6th Guards, plus 1st Gds Tank), plus extra PARAS.
7. MERCHANTS: You get more Tankers in the queue

So, you don't really get extra capital ships (unlike, say, Reluctant Admiral), but you get more 2nd-tier stuff accross the board which helps in logistics and staying power.

Djordje added:

Q-Ball said it nicely, I'll just add:

8: PATROL SQUADRONS - Several large and really useful Mavis squadrons
9: PILOT EXPERIENCE- Lots of really good pilots added to several squadrons, including some with experience of 90. My estimate is that you have at least 300 pilots capable of going into TRACOM at start.
10: KB SQUADRON SIZE - KB have squadron size fixed to certain dates, first size change is in June 42. That is a really big MINUS as you are stuck with 6x18=108 Zeroes in KB instead of usual 150 or so, which is reduction of about 30%. Because of that KB is much more vulnerable to air strikes. And no, increased pilot experience does not make up for it from my experience in PBEM.
11: FACTORIES - Japan gets additional small unrepaired 0(5) factory for every plane type in production on December 41. It does not give additional production but allows for a much more flexible industry planning.


Anything else anyone can think of adding?

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 10/14/2012 10:29:18 PM >

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RE: Scenario 1 v. 2 - 10/15/2012 4:41:16 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 4513
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: online 		Pilots ... In scen 2 you have to really plan for all of those pilots.  Its a big monthly HI hit, about double from scen 1.

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RE: Scenario 1 v. 2 - 10/15/2012 9:14:52 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 6271
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: online 		After about three years of fighting Viperpol in scen 2 I can add the following general insight.

My experience was that the real Japanese advantage to scen 2 over 1 is really that it is "front loaded." That is to say the Japanese player gets a tremendous power boost that starts right away during the game. So, a good Japanese player has a chance to sweep the Allies off the map in 42 and pull out an auto victory. This is the danger of playing scen 2 for the Allies. And with the added production, aircraft, supplies and forces scen 2 is a great challenge and well matched game for players of equal skills.

That said, if the Allied player does not lose his head (and carriers) and keeps cool through mid 1943, he then should be able to win. It does not really matter if Japan gets a few more nice carriers and warships when you compare it to the flood of material the Allies get. As long as the Allied player does not squander them early he will eventually dominate.

To give you an idea of what to expect. I have destroyed 35,000 Japanese aircraft by November 1944 while losing 22,000 of my own. There is no sign that the Japanese air force is even close to losing parity and I suspect Japan's pools are still very large compared to mine. So if you play scen 2 vs a skilled opponent the one thing you can count on until late in the war is a very strong Japanese air force.

Makes it fun though.

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RE: Scenario 1 v. 2 - 10/16/2012 3:48:31 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5293
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		There is a much larger HI expenditure on those Pilots....which is a problem. But I also found that HI wasn't really a problem, as I was building a big stockpile of HI through 1942 regardless. And there is alot more Fuel and Oil available.

I think the biggest difference is the IJN air is much larger; in particular, the CVEs all come with organic airgroups. That's big compared to stock; you can re-size those groups and use them all over the place.

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RE: Scenario 1 v. 2 - 10/21/2012 7:06:19 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12039
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-NE ? "Cloud Coo-coo land"
Status: offline 		Something else I noticed about this scenario....it seems that the Brits don't with draw as many units. Specifically ships. Can anyone else confirm this?

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RE: Scenario 1 v. 2 - 10/21/2012 8:21:48 PM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1326
Joined: 10/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


To give you an idea of what to expect. I have destroyed 35,000 Japanese aircraft by November 1944 while losing 22,000 of my own. There is no sign that the Japanese air force is even close to losing parity and I suspect Japan's pools are still very large compared to mine. So if you play scen 2 vs a skilled opponent the one thing you can count on until late in the war is a very strong Japanese air force.

Makes it fun though.


This is very important for allied players to understand. If the Japanese player knows what he is doing you won't destroy his airforce. The allied should always aim to achieve LOCAL air superiority, not TOTAL! That is the path to victory!

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RE: Scenario 1 v. 2 - 10/22/2012 3:14:46 AM   
pompack


Posts: 2454
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline 		I find that supply is a bigger problem for the Japanese in Scen2 than Scen1; those extra LCU and a/c need extra supply to move, fight, replace, and generally "have their being". The supply crunch is not really noticible until late 43 and then it becomes crippling. (Note that astute players who actually track stockpiles and depletion rates WILL notice it early). My solution is to build an additional 2500+ HI factories by May42 (which will allow break-even about mid-Jul43). By holding all production increases to an absolute minimum and repairing only oil and HI factories you can still maintain a supply stockpile of about 2.0 million (which is really minimal considering base stockpile levels and supply in transit). Of course the additional 2500 HI factories require an additional 5000 fuel per day which has meant that fuel/oil reserves drop to less than 80% of the start value by Jun42 and show no signs of increasing. OTOH with almost 34,000 supply being produced per day there will be enough supply to keep the war going into 44; or at least the supply will be there if the oil continues to flow.

In summary, I feel that while Scen2 provides the Japanese with a lot more goodies to play with it also provides a supply/oil squeeze that is missing (usually) in Scen1.

< Message edited by pompack -- 10/22/2012 3:17:12 AM >

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