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Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Roger!)

 
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Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Roger!) - 10/13/2012 11:37:12 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1446
Joined: 2/17/2010
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So its that time again. Erkki vs. Roger Neilson in a game with many house rules that I will not list here. But besides the usual ones, we also have stuff like

- DBB B with hex stacking limits
- Highest sweep, cap and escort altitude = top altitude of best MVR
- Only bombardment spotters may fly in the night
- Japanese CVEs cant operate heavier relatively high wing loading, long take-off run planes like B6N, B7A and D4Y
- Ki-21-IIb given armor 1, Ki-44s service rating 2, F4U service rating 2+, Ki-61 Ib and Ic service rating 2, P-47s service rating 2
- A "war zone" in China with a couple of sub rules
- No gaming the R&D
- No gaming the game

I'm looking for fairly standard first 6 months. My approach to DEI invasion will be pretty methodical and riskless: Singkawang, Palembang, Borneo, Celebes, Java, Timor, using overwhelming local force in every phase. There will be no extra invasions like Fiji, Ceylon etc. unless I get lucky early and, say, sink a CV or 2 without a loss.

In my last PBEM I had KB attack Pearl for 3 days and not sink a single vessel, so this time we're going to Manila instead. This does let the USN CVs roam free for a couple of days but I can live with it.


First 2 turns and general stuff:

Main strike: KB will hit Manila's port together with CVL Zuiho and 5 full bomber groups from Formosa. 12 Ki-21s will have to fly at extended range(half the bombload). Zeros from KB and Formosa will escort and sweep. Targets are 27 submarines(of which 4 are older "electric boats"). Everything else is secondary and most of them would be killed later any way by carrier air strikes and Imperial Navy's surface units. KB will then sweep South to cover invasion of Manado(northern Celebes) and Mindanao in Philippines. KB "Death Star"'s presence should make sure that the Allies make no attempt in trying to stall those landings. KB, Zuiho and surface raiders will try to get as many escaping ships as possible.

Map counter clockwise:

Burma: bombing campaign begins, starting to move in the first troops... Trying to advance ASAP here.

Andamans: we're moving the Marine paratroopers from Formosa to Bangkok and drop them to the Andamans from there. That should take about 2 weeks... Hopefully quick enough so the Allies dont have the time to send reinforcements.

Malaya: standard landings slightly adjusted, nothing fancy. Kota Bharu should be an operational fighter & bomber base by December 11th, bombing of Singapore will start ASAP. Submarines will lay mines in the strait NW of Singapore, only 40 but if they hit they'll be worth it.

Borneo: Standard landings at Miri, but Singkawang will be taken early. CVL Shoho and CVE Hosho will support this operation together with some battleships and a cruiser squadron...

Sumatra: Palembang landing is scheduled for December 19th-20th. We'll be using a mixed force. Depending on how quick I can load and transport the 4th Division to the area they will take part to this operation as needed. Once Palembang is secured and reinforced with engineering and aviation support units the troops will secure the rest of Sumatra(easy schedule) and wait for the Java operation.

Philippines: standard north coast Luzon landings, south coast landings will go much closer to Manila to speed up the things a little. Mindanao will be invaded on week 1 but both of the campaigns will probably take 4+ months.

Celebes: Manado invaded in the first week, bombers will be moved in. They should stop all Allied the naval traffic in the DEI East of Java and will be able to monitor all their movements.

New Guinea: north coast bases will be taken during the first week as will be Rabaul. I'm expecting some resistance here as the Allies know the Kido Butai to be elsewhere, and I'll be using some mainly older cruisers as the cover.

Solomons: Shortlands invasion force will go to Munda or Buna instead... Where exactly it goes depends on the situation.

Pacific: Tarawa invasion force takes Nauru first and Makin force takes Tarawa. This allows a to hit & run before the Allied carriers arrive... Hopefully. Also some of the more important ships in the Marshalls are at least temporarily evacuated to Ponape. Wake invasion force will take Rabaul(above). Guam invasion force will wait for a go-signal for Wake, while a smallish force originally allocated for one of the Northern NG places will go to Guam.

Aleutians: A regiment and an aviation support company will take Attu. Grab & run.


I'll cover the industry later, but I already set some convoys... Now that I knew what I wanted to do the first turn is was real killer - worked on it for about 12 hours and its still not finished! In the last game I used about 45min.

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/13/2012 11:39:01 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/14/2012 6:32:58 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Good luck!

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 2
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/14/2012 7:50:33 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
Great to see you doing another AAR. I'l be following. Good luck!

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 3
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/14/2012 10:34:28 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1446
Joined: 2/17/2010
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And here are the results of the first strike! I must say I was VERY disappointed by the performance of G4Ms and G3Ms from Formosa. In my test attack they did very well despite meeting CAP first, at 7kft. Now they didnt meet even that CAP but still scored only a handful of hits... About 1 hit per 10 planes.

KB strikes however did very well and unlike in test run, every plane flew. I think we can call it a small success - 25/27 submarines were hit at least once, 14 confirmed kills and most of the survivors are in bad shape. We also nailed every other important ship in the bay minus 1 DD. Now we have some mopping to do: most of the hit submarines should not be able to submerge and the surface vessels are just targets. We'll take them out with KB, Zuiho and surface units - 4 DD squadrons of which 2 are lead by heavy cruisers will enter the archipelago will carriers sit outside. Theres some shipping still docked in the southern end of Luzon - they will probably try to flee as far as they can over the night, it'll be Zuiho's task to hunt them down should the DDs waiting outside the port fail.

Today Japan scored 104 points of shipping, but the listed 13 submarines, DD, PTs and xAKL only total 74 - so we probably got at least 2(so probably 15 subs at least, possibly up to 17, even 18!) more submarines right away.

Today's air losses were just 4 planes and 2 aircrew including an A5M4, escorting Zuiho's B5N strike, to patrolling P-40s over Manila.

N:o
1 SS Porpoise, Bomb hits 1 SS Porpoise, Bomb hits 1 SS Porpoise, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
2 SS Perch, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage SS Perch, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
3 SS Sargo, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage SS Sargo, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
4 SS Pickerel, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage SS Pickerel, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
5 SS S-38, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
6 SS Sturgeon, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
7 SS Sailfish, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
8 SS Stingray, Bomb hits 1 SS Stingray, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
9 SS Pike, Bomb hits 1 SS Pike, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
10 SS Salmon, Bomb hits 1 SS Salmon, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
11 SS Tarpon, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
12 SS Swordfish, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
13 SS Snapper, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage SS Snapper, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage SS Snapper, and is sunk
14 SS Skipjack, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage SS Skipjack, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

15 SS Searaven, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
16 SS S-37, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
17 SS Seawolf, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
18 SS Sculpin, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
19 SS Seadragon, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage SS Seadragon, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
20 SS Seal, Bomb hits 1 SS Seal, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
21 SS Shark, Bomb hits 3, heavy damage
22 SS Saury, Bomb hits 1 SS Saury, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
23 SS S-41, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage

24 SS Spearfish, Bomb hits 2
25 SS S-40, Bomb hits 1

---only 2 submarines not hit!!---


DD John D. Ford, Bomb hits 1 DD John D. Ford, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Pillsbury, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
DD Pope, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
---- ONE DD NOT HIT!!!!!----

AV Langley, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AVD Childs, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Rochambeau, Bomb hits 1
xAP Neptuna, Bomb hits 1, on fire xAP Neptuna, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAP President Madison, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Don Esteban, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

TK Gertrude Kellogg, Bomb hits 1, on fire TK Gertrude Kellogg, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
TK Mindanao, Bomb hits 1
TK Hai Kwang, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AS Canopus, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AS Holland, Bomb hits 1, on fire
ARD YFD-1 Dewey, Bomb hits 1, on fire

PT-31, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
PT-34, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
PT-32, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
PT Q-113, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
PT-41, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

PG Tulsa, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
PG Isabel, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
PG Asheville, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
ACM Colonel Harrison, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

xAK Ethel Edwards, Bomb hits 1, on fire xAK Ethel Edwards, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Cape Fairweather, Bomb hits 1
xAK Tantalus, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Si Kiang, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK American Leader, Bomb hits 1
xAK Yu Sang, Bomb hits 1, on fire xAK Yu Sang, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

xAKL Bisayas, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Corregidor, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAKL Palawan, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAKL Compagnia Filipinas, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

YO-42, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
YO-41, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

TENNO HEIKA BANZAI!

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/14/2012 10:38:41 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 4
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/15/2012 6:28:57 AM   
Erkki


Posts: 1446
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
The rest of the December 7 also went according to plans:


Burma: Ki-21s hit troops at Pegu near Rangoon and that will probably entice Roger to leave AVG in Burma for a couple of days, before he moves them to Sumatra, China or some other place. I doubt that he will keep them in Burma for long. Tomorrow the bombers will hit the troops along the coast to slow their retreat towards Moulmein.

Malaya: Alor Star's airfield was smashed - the Allies will likely move the damaged Blenheim and Hudson bombers away via railroad but they will be out for a couple of turns. Blenheims, Vildebeests and Hudsons attacked the Heavy Cover TF with BBs Kongo and Haruna, but failed to score a single hit. Ki-27s shot down multiple bombers and a Buffalo fighter(one pilot scoring 2 kills) and a Ki-27 was lost to gunner fire. Troops are on the beach and will take Kota Bharu tomorrow. IJNAF and IJAAF will hit Georgetown's airfield.

Philippines: see the previous post! First troops will land tomorrow, and bombers will hit Manila's port one more time to take out more of the cripples - the last thing I want is a submarine or 2 getting away because I gave them a week of repairs. After tomorrow there will be nothing but sweeps and bomber raids to Clark Fields. The Allied B-17s should be there, too, but not in flying condition. IJNAF should be able to bag at least a couple of them, and if they get railed to another base before they can leave Luzon, IJAAF aerial recon photographs every airfield on Luzon daily and will hopefully be able to keep track of them. I want them dead, too, but the submarines are the priority targets now. Kido Butai's Zero-CAP shot down a Catalina.

Hong Kong: IJAAF hit the airfield today and while a light bomber was lost, the field was hit well and at least 1 Walrus seaplane was destroyed. Just in case Roger forgets this place, bombers will hit the port tomorrow(we had a rule that Japanese will only attack 1 port on the first turn - otherwise I would have ordered all of Canton's bombers and the short-ranged Ki-48s from Formosa to hit Hong Kong's port and get all the dozen-ish merchants sitting there).

China: Nothing but troop movements yet. Air strikes were moderately effective.

Pacific: Tarawa invaded tomorrow, Nauru in 2 days.

Force Z: Probably in the Java Sea.

An Allied aircraft was spotted deep behind the action area, over Cam Ranh Bay, where the Japanese invasion fleet is gathering... This _could_ be a float plane from Prince of Wales or Repulse, as the floatplanes in Philippines cant fly that far, or it could have been a Catalina. G4Ms and G3Ms from Saigon found nothing, so most probably the latter.

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 5
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/15/2012 3:49:01 PM   
koniu

 

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From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline
Nice to see You back.
Definitely will fallow.

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to Erkki)
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RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/16/2012 9:36:02 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1446
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
Okay, then some industry stuff.


HI and LI: I'm not convinced that expanding LI at all is worth it, so yet again I'll let the LI factories be as they are. Once Sumatra and Java fall I will probably expand HI a little, at least Singapore's.


Naval Yards: CV Shinano halted, 3 submarines halted, CVs Taiho, Unryu and Amagi accelerated!


Merchant Yards: I wont be touching them yet, but at some point I'll have to convert some of these to Naval...


Aircraft industry:

The database changes we did to the scenario mean that I will be making slightly different decisions compared to most players. I'll go through all planes that I'm intending to build with detail here.

IJAAF

Recon:

-Ki-46-II uses Ha-31 early on, Ki-46-III enters production in December 1942 and uses Ha-33. 15/month.



Transport:

-Ki-57-I at 6 examples a month will use up the existing pool of Ha-5 engines, after which Ki-57-II will be built at similar rate, using Ha-31. So the only planes to use Ha-31 will be Ki-46-II(for 1942) and Ki-57-II(from late 1942), this means that I will produce a pool of these engines and then move that engine factory to build something else.

-Ki-56 or "Japanese Locheed Electra" at also 6/month

-Potentially the Ki-49-KAI will see production later, its as good(or as bad) a transport as the others, it can load 3500 instead of 2300 or 2500 unlike others but I'm not sure if that actually effects anything.

-Ki-54c: when it comes available in 1/43 I might, just might, give one tiny factory the orders to build it. It uses hitachi(early) engines that I have a pool of but no need, so if I happen to be in need of transports by then I could see the Ki-54c a way to get some more for half the price. Its a bad transport with short range but just enough for China Ops, dropping supplies to troops in Burma, or something. Half the price, half the range of a Ki-57 or Ki-56.



Bomber:

-Ki-21-IIa at 30/month using Ha-32 engine. Production halted once there are enough of Ki-49s to fill a unit or two.

-Ki-49-IIa at 90 to 120/month from spring 1942(R&D!) - the best IJAAF bomber, uses Ha-34 engine. Upgrades to IIb when it comes available.

-Ki-21-IIb once it comes available. This has armor now and not counting 1 hex shorter range, it is in every way equal to Ki-49, so why waste a good factory?

-Ki-67-Ia-T will be R&D'd to try to advance it from 5/44 to at least 2/44. as the only IJAAF torpedo carrier its definitely worth of building. Unfortunately uses Ha-45 that is needed by so many even more important planes...



Fighter:

-Ki-43 series: no R&D will be wasted. Once Ki-44 becomes available in masses and there is a sufficient pool of Ic, the production will be halted until IIa becomes available. From then on I will probably build only 24-30/month for kamikaze/kamikaze escort/"ablative armor escort" role pools only.

-Ki-44 series: will be R&D'd, all variants are planned to be advanced by 6 months. I will skip the IIb though as nobody seems to think its worth it, even against bombers it lost the tests vs. IIa and IIc.b Ki-44 will most probably be built to the end of the war.

-Ki-45a: first IJAAF fighter with a cannon and protection - will be built in limited numbers(30/month) to be used everywhere where the Allied bombers are present or a threat. 30/month at maximum, uses Ha-35. Once Ki-61-Ib becomes available there is little reason to continue producing this expensive interceptor...

-Ki-61 and Ki-100 series: will be heavily R&D'd because of the database changes. 61-Ia will be skipped or built only in small numbers, but I'm looking to advance the Ib(that now has service rating 2) to 12/1942 and build it at a rate of 30 or 60/month for the role of defensive fighter.(Ki-44 also now has service rating of 2 instead of 1). Ic will not be R&D because its not part of the line, but will be produced at least 30/month, together with Ib until Ki-100 arrives, or even beyond that. Id I might skip as other than range it offers little over Ic - dual centerline cannons but must fly CAP 5000ft lower, is slower and less maneuverable and with worse climb. Ki-100 using Ha-33 engine looks like a great low service rating defensive fighter and it will be advanced. Finally Ki-100-II with its high altitude properties might just level the playing field a little against the P-51s and P-47s.

-Ki-84a will be heavily R&D'd hopefully 6 months ahead as will be its successor 84r. How many exactly will be produced I dont know, it will depend on the need, but many. If it didnt have service rating of 3, it would be the only late war IJAAF fighter, but as it is I will need Ki-61s, Ki-100s and Ki-44s to accompany it, and those pools of Ki-43s to escort kamikazes.



IJNAF tomorrow!

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/16/2012 9:47:07 PM >

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 7
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/16/2012 9:58:34 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
I'm thinking the Nick will be a good low naval bomber/kami later in the war, and will still be effective later in areas outside sweep range as a fighter. I'm going to continue making it as it has armor and has a good punch for late game to get through to shipping.

Interesting now with the new patch. Not sure if you've upgraded to it. Bomber raids seem to come very fragmented. Highly fragmented. Like 3-4 times as much as before. This could be good in late war and take away the 200 passes rule ablative armor stuff. Check out the 4E raid in my game recently. Very interesting.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 8
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/17/2012 3:28:33 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Merchant Yards: I wont be touching them yet, but at some point I'll have to convert some of these to Naval...

No point converting .. just build new NSY. Same cost ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 9
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/17/2012 6:10:40 AM   
Erkki


Posts: 1446
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I'm thinking the Nick will be a good low naval bomber/kami later in the war, and will still be effective later in areas outside sweep range as a fighter. I'm going to continue making it as it has armor and has a good punch for late game to get through to shipping.

Interesting now with the new patch. Not sure if you've upgraded to it. Bomber raids seem to come very fragmented. Highly fragmented. Like 3-4 times as much as before. This could be good in late war and take away the 200 passes rule ablative armor stuff. Check out the 4E raid in my game recently. Very interesting.


Hmm could be, but then again, how often does one get to attack Allied task forces that dont have heavy AAA or fighter protection after mid 1942? I have a feeling that the 250 or that I will build will be more than enough for the war. And only the a model is worth building at all.

Pax: how come? When converting, the yards only need to be repaired. Unless of course if I havent been paying attention and there is no expansion cost.

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/17/2012 6:11:32 AM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 10
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/18/2012 3:29:32 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5925
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I'm thinking the Nick will be a good low naval bomber/kami later in the war, and will still be effective later in areas outside sweep range as a fighter. I'm going to continue making it as it has armor and has a good punch for late game to get through to shipping.

Interesting now with the new patch. Not sure if you've upgraded to it. Bomber raids seem to come very fragmented. Highly fragmented. Like 3-4 times as much as before. This could be good in late war and take away the 200 passes rule ablative armor stuff. Check out the 4E raid in my game recently. Very interesting.


Hmm could be, but then again, how often does one get to attack Allied task forces that dont have heavy AAA or fighter protection after mid 1942? I have a feeling that the 250 or that I will build will be more than enough for the war. And only the a model is worth building at all.

Pax: how come? When converting, the yards only need to be repaired. Unless of course if I havent been paying attention and there is no expansion cost.


No, you are correct, you'll save a few HI (literally) and a few supply. I've just never thought it worth losing the ability to ramp up hard if I needed it. Say to accelerate a CVE or two ... or some AO's ... or TK's ...


_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 11
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/21/2012 8:24:30 AM   
Erkki


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Joined: 2/17/2010
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Okay, here goes turn 2, after which I'll post the (planned) IJNAF R&D and production stuff. Like in the previous game I will hypermicromanage the air forces.




08.12.1941 (sorry about the date format but thats what we use here )

Some things went according to plan... And others not.

China: only minor troop movements yet from either side. Bombers flew against the easiest targets that I could find and, predictably, didnt achieve much. The action should start in a week or two.

Hong Kong & China Sea: troops reached Hong Kong while IJAAF units from Canton bombed the port in hopes of catching any ships that Roger may have forgotten there. It was empty, but at least we are now preventing fort levels from building up. 2 IJN light destroyer TBs found a convoy escaping in the direction of Singapore and mauled it pretty badly, but the other TB was also damaged by the escorting destroyer, Thracian. I give it 50-50% to make it. Another smaller convoy was trying to escape towards Formosa but was caught by patrol vessels, but they escaped with just a couple of hits.

Burma: nothing, but tomorrow IJAAF bombers will go after the retreating troops.

Malaysia: Another day with a lot of action. RAF bombers that attacked Japanese shipping at Kota Bharu took casualties. For some reason, 2 Allied task forces sailed up the peninsula and almost reached Kota Bharu's latitude, though they are off the coast: 2 AMC merchant raiders that were attacked and by Saigon's torpedo bombers received 2 and 4 torpedo hits. Behind them are 4 destroyers, probably the same ones that usually escort Prince of Wales and Repulse: bombers sorties against them but scored no hits. A Dutch submarine hit a Japanese merchant that was carrying an aviation support battalion, and though the damage isnt hopeless, its likely to sink in 24 hours I dont think it will reach a port before it sinks. 1 G3M2 was shot down, and its crew is lost. A G3M unit was redeployed to Kota Bharu that now also has an air HQ - its task will be to attack the Allied shipping that is fleeing in mass to the Indian Ocean though the Strait of Malacca.

Philippines: Things went mostly according to plan. Most of the fleeing shipping was hit(sunk today were at least 1 TK, 3 xAP, about 5 xAK and 10-ish xAKL). Also DD Pope received a torpedo hit from Ryujo's B5N1s and was sunk. Also AVD Childs and an AVP were destroyed, and a number of smaller vessels... The submarine laid minefield at Bataan hit something too. Unfortunately the last DD, Peary, made it through the blockade despite meeting a japanese cruiser squadron with a CA and 2 DD. A6M2s sweeped Clark Field and did pretty well. Tomorrow the IJN conntinues the chase - theres still a lot of shipping in Manila!

Kido Butai: hit Allied shipping near Mindanao and East of Luzon. Near Mindanao KB's Zeros had a brief skirmish with P-26s. Guess the winner. KB will now head to Wake while Ryujo checks out the South Philippines Sea and supprts the landings at Manado in a week or so.

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/28/2012 5:41:30 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 12
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/21/2012 8:33:03 AM   
Erkki


Posts: 1446
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
Also 6 more submarines have been reported sunk... Thoigh I think I can be happy if 2 of those reports are real and not just FOW/Jvirtual apanese HQ guesstimating.

EDIT: question... these are the first 2 turns that I play this beta, and I noticed that in 4 or 5 cases when I ordered a TF to use mission speed, it used max speed instead! KB and MKB did this, but second MKB didnt. 4 SCTFs in philippines and Wake invasion escort did it-(some were just given target hex, others used patrol points). All other TFs, unless I missed something, did what they were supposed to do. None of these TFs reacted to enemy. Thanks to this bug I now have several TFs in wrong places, 2 with damage frpm flanking 24 hours and 1 that reached its destination and decided to head back home too early.

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/21/2012 8:45:19 AM >

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 13
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/21/2012 9:57:16 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5925
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

EDIT: question... these are the first 2 turns that I play this beta, and I noticed that in 4 or 5 cases when I ordered a TF to use mission speed, it used max speed instead! KB and MKB did this, but second MKB didnt. 4 SCTFs in philippines and Wake invasion escort did it-(some were just given target hex, others used patrol points). All other TFs, unless I missed something, did what they were supposed to do. None of these TFs reacted to enemy. Thanks to this bug I now have several TFs in wrong places, 2 with damage frpm flanking 24 hours and 1 that reached its destination and decided to head back home too early.

Hsven't seen this in my turns. You may want to post in Tech Support.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 14
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/21/2012 3:59:54 PM   
Erkki


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IJNAF aircraft production, remember that we have a rule to not advance any one plane more than 6 months:


Transport:

- H6K2-L when it arrives about 6/month
- H8K transport - possibly... No big decisions to be made here...
- L2D2 when it arrives late in the war... Not many of IJNAF transport will be built as the main transport fleet is in the IJAAF


Patrol:

- H6K series: 10/month using Ha-33 probably until late 1942
- H8K series: 10/month or even 15-ish once its available, uses Ha-32, engine production will not be increased but I am planning to stop and activate the G4M1 factory and when Ki-21-IIa leaves production its that factory with G4M continuing to be produced until Ki-21-IIb becomes available. At that point there should be enough Netties in the pool...
- E13 27/month(original factory) as long as needed - probably until mid 1944 or so...

Bomber:

- G3M series: 22/month(the starting factory) is good enough. G3M3 has awesome range and I will use them in naval search/patrol role too. As after Spring 1942 the Netties become VERY vulnerable and in practice attack range = escort's range, G3M = G4M in performance. Will be built as long as needed, possibly until the Ki-100 enters production and starts to use the same engine..
- G4M series: 25/month (starting factory), built as explained above in H8K part. As Ki-21-IIb, J2M, P1Y2, B6N2 and H8K use same engine(I have no plans to increase production from first 110 and later 150-ish engines/month), production will be low rate, probably 10/month in practice with the factory being turned on and off... One of the late models of the G4M looks very nice(at least compared to the original) but its far, far in the future and P1Y1 and Y2 are both faster and easier to R&D
- P1Y1 will be heavily R&D'd to try to get it at least 3 months in advance. Will be mass produced but unfortunately uses Ha-45 engine. Y2 is better in this regard with Ha-32 engine and R&D will be moved to it ASAP.

Attack:

- D3A1 30/month using Ha-33 until the D4Y becomes available. A2 sucks and will not see service.
- D4Y series: heavily R&D'd, and not just the first model. Planning to build it 60/month or so to replace D3As in service ASAP and later to build pools of what are probably fairly destructive, fast and cheap kamikazes. Unfortunately uses its own, unique engine.
- B7A: R&D'd in an attempt to get it early, but the effort is not too massive. The best attack plane there is for Japan, I just wish it had armor...
- B5N1: there are some engines still in the pool and a smallish factory will use them up. Not the best attack plane out there but its OK, plus they are effectively half the price
- B5N2: 30/month until the B6N1 becomes available
- B6N1: R&D'd to get it earlier, planned rate of building is about 60/month(to replace B5Ns in service) for 3 months... Ha-44 engines wont be overbuilt either
- B6N2: 60-90/month using Ha-32 with a ready factory to do 120 - some B5Ns probably still need to be replaced and its possibly the best IJNAF one engine kamikaze

Fighter:
- A6M2: 120/month until M3 becomes available(a factory or 2 will remain to build the M2 until M3a becomes available in Autumn 1942. All Zeros except M8 use Ha-35 engine
- A6M3: R&D'd to advance 1-2 months, but priority is on M3a. Will be produced 90-ish/month for the couple of months until M3a. Our altitude rules mean that the M3 can CAP, sweep and escort higher than M2 so there is definitely a reason to build it
- A6M3a: mass-produced to replace the CV M2s, plus its the longest range fighter Japan has. 120-150/month depending on need. Will be R&D'd
- A6M5: R&D'd and mass produced, but depending on strategic situation and KB's status, probably just 1 R&D factory will move from research to production. 150-180/month!
- A6M5b: R&D'd just because those R&D factories already exist, hoping for the CT heavy machine gun to make a difference...(not!)
- A6M5c: R&D just because I can, only a factory or 2 will ever produce it because its so slow but at least its the best anti-bomber/defensive Zero
- A6M8: not worth it, R&D swapped over to A7M(probably long before A6M5c ever became available!!)
- A7M Reppu: R&D'd in hopes of getting it earlier but I'm not holding high hopes in it levelling the quality and quantity difference between KB and early 1945/late 1944 Allied CV Death Star
- J2M: no R&D but at least the M3 will be built because it has service rating 2 and 4 cannons, plus it uses a fairly common engine in Ha-32
- N1K series: mass-R&D'd and mass produced. Ha-45. Simply a must to build. Second model I'll try to get 6 months early, fast, service rating 2, maneuverable and 4 cannons are too good to pass. Planning to build K1 at least 120/month and K2 even more
- J7W Shinden: not worth it, too far in the future... might swap some R&D to it later on though

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 15
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/21/2012 4:25:07 PM   
PaxMondo


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Ok, since your max advance is 6 months, that means to me you have to research and produce more aircraft.  You R&D plans will need quite a bit of careful planning.  As always, fighters are first concern.  6 Months advance can be had with 4x30 R&D factories started about 18 months in advance of the original start date AND +500 engines of that type in your pool.

EX: A7M Sam.  Original arrival = 9/45.  Start 4x30 factories 3/44 with 500 Ha-43 engines in your pool and you should have this in production by 3/45 fairly safely.

Also, even more than in a usual game, I think you are going to have to rely upon numbers of aircraft.  That means you are going to have to really run the jagged edge in terms of HI banking and produce a LOT of fighters.  Once the Corsair and Thundebolt show up, you'll have to maintain 2:1 advantage to have even a hope to compete.  That 6 month rule is a nasty one.  I understand why you want it, but it has, like many things, unintended consequences.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 16
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/21/2012 6:56:02 PM   
Erkki


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Aye I have every useful types(except patrol, recon, transports etc) already covered, as you can see. Minimum 3 R&D factories per plane already going, and the long lines have some extra so that I can covert R&D to production if wanted and still have the later models R&D'd that 6 months, or at least multiple months.

OTOH Corsair and P-47 also have higher service ratings now, and with the 250-AV rule gone, the air war will potentially be more even than in stock scen 1 where Japan doesnt do much R&D.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 17
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/23/2012 1:09:48 PM   
Erkki


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December 9 1941


South China Sea:Zuiho, Hosho and their escorts are to the East of Formosa today. Ahead of them, 2 Royal Navy destroyers attempt to either hit IJN shipping behind the lines or escape to the Pacific, but they clashed with 2 IJN patrol vessels in the night and sunk them both. Also the TB they damaged yesterday had to be scuttled, as the fires were out of control and damage was very heavy. Zuiho and Hosho's B5Ns sortied to attack these 2 destroyers and achieved 0 hits - neither side hit the other. And now Hosho is out of torpedoes and Zuiho has 10 left. 2 D3As from Pescadores also sortied and scored a 250kg bomb hit on DD Scout(or thats what it was ID'd), heavy damage and heavy fires were observed. IJN surface units + Zuiho & Hosho will attempt to take these 2 pests out tomorrow. Theres a possibility of a surface engagement between the Zuiho TF and these 2 RN DDs, but at least the other DD should be damaged, possibly crippled and sinking, and they should be low on ammo.

China: not much going on.

Malaya: attacking Blenheims were slaughtered, submarine I-154 sinks the AMC Manoora, Saigon's G3Ms and G4Ms hit Allied shipping near Georgetown and sink about 10 civilian ships, mainly smaller ones but still. IJN surface units will start to move towards Borneo in preparation of landings at Singkawang. BB Haruna and BB Kongo included to counter the threat of the Force Z.

Philippines: AS Otus is caught by Japanese cruiser squadron and is sunk. Japanese troops are ashore! IJNAF attacks Clark Field, shoots down dozen-ish P-40s for 2 Zeros and 3 G3Ms.

Celebes Sea: IJN surface raiders, still undetected, advance... A USN cruiser force is detected near Tarakan, IJN is in pursuit and one force will try block its escape. CVL Ryujo is supporting from a distance.

Kido Butai: will now disappear!

Pacific: Japanese Marines take Tarawa and Nauru!

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/28/2012 5:42:05 PM >

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 18
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/23/2012 4:00:17 PM   
Erkki


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BTW, looks like Unryu's Zero wing got lucky with the RNG... Enough of a reason to accelerate the ship to mid 1943?



< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/23/2012 4:02:39 PM >

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 19
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/26/2012 7:13:08 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1446
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December 10 1941


Malaya:

IJN and RN destroyer skirmish along the Malayan coast, no only a couple of minor hits received for each side. Yesterday IJNAF hit many ships near Georgetown and today they repeat these strikes but get hit bad by Buffalos set on CAP: 9 G4Ms are lost and another 9 Ki-21s that bombed Georgetown. Zeros sweep Singapore and score 12-ish - 0 vs. Buffaloes!

Philippines:

IJN keeps killing off stragglers, DD Scout is finally finishes off. Zeros score 10-0 against P-40s over Clark Field. B5Ns from Zuiho fly to hit the shipping that is still sitting at Manila but they get mauled badly by P-40s and 7 are lost... Nevertheless the pursuing IJN catches AO Pecos and some lesser ships off near Borneo.

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/28/2012 5:42:18 PM >

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 20
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/26/2012 7:38:08 PM   
Erkki


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December 11 1941

Malaya:

The yesterday is revenged for: escorted bombers hit Georgetown's port and sink about 15 ships. Zeros sweep Singapore and shoot down at least 17 Buffaloes for 2 lost Zeros.

Off Borneo, Japanese cruiser squadron with 4 CA and 8 destroyers meet a Royal Navy cruiser squadron. In the very long nocturnal battle, the DD Usugumo is hit for moderate damage, but RN cruisers CL Dragon and CL Durban are hit very, very badly and very likely they both sunk. CL Danae is also hit badly and is later finished off by a submarine. Also 2 of the escort destroyers are badly hit and HQ believes at least the other one to have sunk. Japanese cruisers Mikuma and Suzya need some new paint on their armored towers... Banzai!

Then the same cruiser squadron finds a Manila survivor, DD Pillsbury, and finishes it off.

And then they find CL Mauritius at Singkawang and put some holes on her in 2 engagements... No heavy damage is observed but I doubt that she'll be a threat for some time.

Unfortunately an Allied submarine then hits CL Isuzu with 2 torpedoes and the resulting magazine explosion sinks her. Leader of her escorting destroyer squadron commits seppuku 2 hours later. Escort DDs made no attempt to even find the submarine...

In the daylight, Japanese Heavy Cover Force clears Singkawang of the Dutch pests that apparently tried to mine it...


Philippines and nearby:

IJN sweeps Luzon and shoots down about 12 P-40s to just 2 lost Zeros.

IJN surface units destroy 2 BIG fleeing tankers near Tarakan, multiple merchantmen in the Philippinear archipelago, a big fat troop transport and some lone xAKs are destroyed by Saigon's G3M2s.


SOPAC:

Multiple bases invaded, including Rabaul. CLs Tenryu and Tatsuta sink a troop transport that tried to escape.


Kido Butai Some idiot forgot to cut the range of attack aircraft and KB revealed its position by attacking the mine layer/sweeper that was fleeing from Guam... Darnit.

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/28/2012 5:42:28 PM >

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 21
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/28/2012 1:16:36 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1446
Joined: 2/17/2010
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December 12 1941

Another good day for the Japanese


Malaya and Borneo:

Japanese destroyer squadrons led by light cruisers, IJNAF and submarines sink the largest mine layer I've ever seen, a tanker, a USN destroyer near Palembang, an AS submarine tender support ship near Georgetown and the dutch submarine, ID'd as O16, near Singkawang. Troops land at Singkawang with no interruption and the place will fall tomorrow. Dutch bombers sortie against the invasion fleet but fail to score hits - and the day after tomorrow there will be Zero and bomber squadrons operating from Singkawang already.

Looks like theres a mine field deployed off Palembang... The sunk USN DD had hit a friendly mine before it got torpedoed. Hmm....

Also, theres still a massive number of ships in Singapore, including a "battleship". That one is probably CL Mauritius...


Philippines:

IJN surface units and attack aircraft from CVL Ryujo take out a handful more ships.

Near Luzon, 21 USAAF P-40s and 3 SOC-1 Seagulls attack the Japanese invasion fleet! The CAP of 7 IJAAF Ki-27s shoot down 3 Seagulls, while the AAA from the fleet damaged multiple strafing and bombing P-40s and down at least one. Two ships suffer light damage from gunfire, but bombs all miss.

Japanese invasion fleet unloads at Cagayan, Mindanao, but it looks like there are too many defenders, and the infantry regiment still at Bedeldoab will be needed(as expected).


Pacific:

Wake invasion force detects an Allied aircraft 13 hex from target! The course is changed to South for a day so that KB will be able to protect the fleet from tomorrow. KB is fully combat ready.

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/28/2012 5:42:39 PM >

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 22
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/28/2012 4:41:22 PM   
Erkki


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I decided against building the second super battleship, BB Musashi, this time. With the same resources, we can build over 6000 single engine aircraft or build 2,000 and well trained aircrew to man them all. Or, say, 750 bombers and 500 fighters... So unlike last game, this time I will rationalize the naval production instead of expanding it. The capacity and HI that would have been used to finish the Musashi will be used to accelerate and finish quicker 2 Unryu class CVs and to build 2 more of the larger E14Y equipped submarines. Looks like a good trade, to me.

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 23
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/28/2012 5:32:03 PM   
Dan Nichols


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You have the dates above listed as being in December, 1942, Did you skip a year?

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 24
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/28/2012 5:41:07 PM   
Erkki


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

You have the dates above listed as being in December, 1942, Did you skip a year?


oops!

(in reply to Dan Nichols)
Post #: 25
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/29/2012 7:27:29 AM   
Erkki


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December 13 1941

Disappointing naval actions but other than that, we're still doing well...


Malaya:

Ki-43s shoot down the last 2 Buffaloes that meet the port raid over Singapore, while the 20-ish Ki-21 bombers score hits on 7 ships. 6 (probably very small) xAPs and some xAKs are hit, but so is the DD Peary that escaped from Manila and later received hits in the night battle against the Japanese CA squadron near Singkawang. Heavy fires and heavy damage is observed after the side penetration.

G4Ms sink 3 small civilian ships in the Malaccan straits...

CL-led DD squadrons sink CMc Pro Patria and engage the lone, smoking CL Mauritius twice(failing to hit with torpedoes and scoring just 2 superstructure hits in the addition of 7 that didnt penetrate armor). They also engage CL Java, CL Tromp and 2 escorting DDs and score a superstucture hit on each of them for no received damage. An RN destroyer is engaged north of Singkawang but it escaped after receiving a single hit.

IJNAF air units will now fly in. Singapore is now pretty much cut off, and reinforcing Sumatra should be difficult as IJNAF bombers can reach every port of it.

Singkawang is captured by the Japanese troops, and with it many B-339 fighters and 139WH bombers are lost! For whatever reason they apparently could not fly to Singapore, Batavia or Palembang.


Philippines and Celebes Sea:

A CL squadron sinks a small merchant near Tarakan while CVL Ryujo and her escorts + a surface combat CA squadron have retired a bit to refuel.

Manado invasion in 48 hours.

At Cagayan on Mindanao, Japanese troops manage to push back the defenders and refuce fortifications to 0, after all! P-26s strafe Japanese troops but achieve nothing.

Over Luzon, Zero sweep finds only 3 P-40s and shoots down 2 of them. Aerial recce finds fighters only at Iba, 19 of them, but they were either stood down or attempted and failed to fly naval attacks against the Japanese invasion fleet.


Pacific:

Wake invasion in 4 days.

Second amphibious task force lands at Rabaul, and the place should fall tomorrow.

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 26
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/30/2012 7:24:20 AM   
Erkki


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December 14 1941

Looks like at least I am suffering of a game bug of some some sort... More about that later.


Malaya:

Looks like Roger is setting sail at Singapore - there are more task forces there that fit on my screen, mostly single ship. I'm not sure if Roger understands that the game AI that determines targets for naval strikes often ignores 1-ship task forces unless the ships in them are big. Netties and B5Ns from Singkawang, CVL Hosho and Kota Bhary sink a number of ships, merchantmen and small troop transports, near Singapore. About 10 or so, and apparently they were all carrying troops... Theres still a number of them left out there and another 70-ish(!) ships at Singapore.

During these attacks, CL Danae is hit with a 250kg bomb, fires and heavy damage are observed. This is the same ship that has received now over 10 heavy gun(200mm) hits from Japanese CAs and 2 submarine launched torpedoes near Singkawang!!!!

Buffalos manage to shoot down an escorting Zero, and the pilot is also lost.

I'm not sure if the troops aboard those sunk transports were heading in our out of Singapore... The convoys in the area are all heading away from it, though.

Ki-15s take a peek at Palembang - there are lots of bombers and fighters as well as many warships. And probably lots of mines. Hmm...


Philippines etc.

Disaster to the IJNAF. The Zero sweep is the last to arrive over Manila and unescorted bombers, in ones and twos, first. 12 G4M1s are lost to a CAP of less than a handful of P-40s, as is a Zero and multiple IJAAF Ki-27s. Nothing worked here: Ki-27s that were ordered to LRCAP Manila in the case of something like this happening did not show up. Zeros failed totally and on top of it all, most of the bombers used bombs instead of torpedoes. Just last turn I made sure that Takao had over 200 torpedoes and that every unit had them available. Didnt work.

On the good side, most of the shipping that was still hanging in Manila is now dead. Thats a small tanker, 10 or so xAKLs and xAKs and a big fat AO fleet oiler. They were all laden in fuel and I cant but think that Roger is, here, in Tarakan and probably in Palembang and Balikpapan, at least, too, just sacrificing his ships to 1) burn fuel to deny it from the Japanese 2) draw attacks away from his warships.

He could have evacuated both Singapore and Manila long time ago. It isnt absolutely necessary to keep literally hundreds of ships in mostly 2-3 ship TFs within bomber range and load them ALL(except the few warships and xAPs) with fuel. It does strike me as a bit gamey... OTOH if I can catch them with surface units, they'll be free kills & XP to the crews. At the expense of ammo and delaying the schedule...


Pacific:

KB moves normally but the Wake Invasion Amhibious TF decides to warp speed. This "feature" that I see for the first time in the 1117 beta we play is incredibly annoying and has already cost me a lot of fuel, system and engine damage to ships and almost blew the Singkawang operation. About every other TF that is moving uses flank speed for at least 12 hours a day, for no reason, and even if forced to use cruising speed. After this turn KB and the amphibious TF should have been in adjacent hexes, but because the amphibious TF flanked(which its fuel situation doesnt allow it to do - or they wont be sailing back to Truk or even Eniwetok...), they ended up 3 hex apart.

I first thought that this was an issue with the old TFs, the ones that exist in the beginning of the scenario, but I now see that its not true. After the second turn's stupid warp jump that cost ridiculous amount of fuel the KB has behaved normally. The Heavy Cover BB TF did not, nor did many cruiser and amphibious TFs. The CA/CL & DD raider squadrons that I created using ships in KB, MKB, in ports and in amphibious TFs also did this. MKB warped first turn but has behaved as it should after that. Mine sweeper TF I created at Kota Bharu decided to flank to Singkawang in less than 2 turns and nearly arrived before the protecting screen of CA and CL squadrons! Some TFs seem to do it all the time and some not at all. Theres no logic to it: its not TF type, mission, movement mode, movement speed(cruise or mission), reaction, retirement or not, patrol waypoints or not... Even using patrol zones(and setting first patrol point as the current hex), some TFs have flanked and others did not. Some important ships like AV Langley got escaped(or at least probably escaped) from Manila because of this - the raider TFs had reached their destination points and decided to retire, or had flanked through their patrol points and decided to head home as they were low on fuel the day after.


Rabaul falls to Japanese Marines!

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/30/2012 7:47:47 AM >

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 27
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/30/2012 7:27:27 AM   
Erkki


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BTW, this reminds me of the fuel use bug I had in my last game. Nobody else seemed to notice it and even to me it was completely random with no logic whatsoever: TF type, docked or not, aircraft or not, mines and minefield tenders or without them, some TFs used fuel even in port when most others didnt. Most annoying when the said TFs is KB that has every CV and float plane grounded, and its docked at Truk, and still uses fuel as if it was cruising.

Before you ask, my game install isnt the same. I'm playing this game on a fresh install(redownloaded the whole game from Matrix) using my laptop instead of the desktop PC.

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 28
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/30/2012 11:38:01 AM   
obvert


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quote:

KB moves normally but the Wake Invasion Amhibious TF decides to warp speed. This "feature" that I see for the first time in the 1117 beta we play is incredibly annoying and has already cost me a lot of fuel, system and engine damage to ships and almost blew the Singkawang operation. About every other TF that is moving uses flank speed for at least 12 hours a day, for no reason, and even if forced to use cruising speed. After this turn KB and the amphibious TF should have been in adjacent hexes, but because the amphibious TF flanked(which its fuel situation doesnt allow it to do - or they wont be sailing back to Truk or even Eniwetok...), they ended up 3 hex apart.

I first thought that this was an issue with the old TFs, the ones that exist in the beginning of the scenario, but I now see that its not true. After the second turn's stupid warp jump that cost ridiculous amount of fuel the KB has behaved normally. The Heavy Cover BB TF did not, nor did many cruiser and amphibious TFs. The CA/CL & DD raider squadrons that I created using ships in KB, MKB, in ports and in amphibious TFs also did this. MKB warped first turn but has behaved as it should after that. Mine sweeper TF I created at Kota Bharu decided to flank to Singkawang in less than 2 turns and nearly arrived before the protecting screen of CA and CL squadrons! Some TFs seem to do it all the time and some not at all. Theres no logic to it: its not TF type, mission, movement mode, movement speed(cruise or mission), reaction, retirement or not, patrol waypoints or not... Even using patrol zones(and setting first patrol point as the current hex), some TFs have flanked and others did not. Some important ships like AV Langley got escaped(or at least probably escaped) from Manila because of this - the raider TFs had reached their destination points and decided to retire, or had flanked through their patrol points and decided to head home as they were low on fuel the day after.


You have a tendency to be very attentive to things I just don't pay enough attention to during the game. I appreciate this!

Did the fuel use while docked get fixed, I can't remember?

This one is really bad if it's going against settings. Sounds like some of the problems with LR CAP sending planes past designated range limiters. I've noticed the KB warping from time to time when I didn't set that, but because I usually wanted it to get there faster anyway I didn't get too concerned. Maybe I should have. This was quite a few patches back, at the beginning of the game. I wonder if some kind of thing like this has always been in the game to some degree, but is magnified in recent patches for some reason.

I'll keep an eye out now to add to the thread in tech if I notice anything.


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 29
RE: Name the AAR! Erkki(J) vs. Roger Neilson (A) (No Ro... - 10/30/2012 11:44:24 AM   
koniu

 

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From: Konin, Poland, European Union
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

KB moves normally but the Wake Invasion Amhibious TF decides to warp speed. This "feature" that I see for the first time in the 1117 beta we play is incredibly annoying and has already cost me a lot of fuel, system and engine damage to ships and almost blew the Singkawang operation. About every other TF that is moving uses flank speed for at least 12 hours a day, for no reason, and even if forced to use cruising speed. After this turn KB and the amphibious TF should have been in adjacent hexes, but because the amphibious TF flanked(which its fuel situation doesnt allow it to do - or they wont be sailing back to Truk or even Eniwetok...), they ended up 3 hex apart.

I first thought that this was an issue with the old TFs, the ones that exist in the beginning of the scenario, but I now see that its not true. After the second turn's stupid warp jump that cost ridiculous amount of fuel the KB has behaved normally. The Heavy Cover BB TF did not, nor did many cruiser and amphibious TFs. The CA/CL & DD raider squadrons that I created using ships in KB, MKB, in ports and in amphibious TFs also did this. MKB warped first turn but has behaved as it should after that. Mine sweeper TF I created at Kota Bharu decided to flank to Singkawang in less than 2 turns and nearly arrived before the protecting screen of CA and CL squadrons! Some TFs seem to do it all the time and some not at all. Theres no logic to it: its not TF type, mission, movement mode, movement speed(cruise or mission), reaction, retirement or not, patrol waypoints or not... Even using patrol zones(and setting first patrol point as the current hex), some TFs have flanked and others did not. Some important ships like AV Langley got escaped(or at least probably escaped) from Manila because of this - the raider TFs had reached their destination points and decided to retire, or had flanked through their patrol points and decided to head home as they were low on fuel the day after.


You have a tendency to be very attentive to things I just don't pay enough attention to during the game. I appreciate this!

Did the fuel use while docked get fixed, I can't remember?

This one is really bad if it's going against settings. Sounds like some of the problems with LR CAP sending planes past designated range limiters. I've noticed the KB warping from time to time when I didn't set that, but because I usually wanted it to get there faster anyway I didn't get too concerned. Maybe I should have. This was quite a few patches back, at the beginning of the game. I wonder if some kind of thing like this has always been in the game to some degree, but is magnified in recent patches for some reason.

I'll keep an eye out now to add to the thread in tech if I notice anything.



LCAP past designated range happen to me couple turns ago. I was thinking that aggressive commanders decide to disobey orders and engage enemy. Fighter pilots do that, they are hunters, aren't they?
It end well because i shot down 40 enemy bombers. But if game work as designed it should not happen.

I hope Michaelm will fix LCAP and warping TF bug.


< Message edited by koniu -- 10/30/2012 11:47:54 AM >


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