RE: Looking at DCCB

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RE: Looking at DCCB

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RE: Looking at DCCB - 10/29/2012 1:35:19 PM

Keunert

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It is under unit detail. I think that you can make a HQ range overlay. but i am not at home right now to check this.
here is a screen:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3188316

btw: HQ power only applies to land units. not to air units.

you have to check the manual on what kind of bonus you will get. it depends on staff xp and on the commander himself. it is really important to have max. HQ power.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 31

RE: Looking at DCCB - 10/29/2012 1:48:11 PM

James Ward

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quote:

I forgot to mention one other thing I don't like, maybe someone can enlighten me: I really don't like how it is not possible to take actions with entire stacks, but onlyl individual units or groups. Is there really no way to move/attack with a stack?

There is a Move All button that lets you move an entire Divison at once, double arrows, but all the components have to be able to reach the hex so sometimes it limits where the majority of a unit can reach.
There is also an All Attack button and a List button on the Attack screen.
The All button will commit every unit next to the defender who can attack to the assault. You can then remove units if you have to many stacking points attacking. The drawback is you have to do a lot of clicking to see which unit is in which hex and the make up of each unit.
The List button shows all the units that could join the attack. If you mouse over the individual unit you get the make up and readiness of each unit.
Neither are perfect but when you have a lot of hexes you are attacking from and a lot of units that could attack they are helpful.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 32

RE: Looking at DCCB - 10/29/2012 2:51:22 PM

76mm

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I understand about the Move All button and All Attack button, but I don't find them very useful; I want to be able to select stacks, not divisions or all units adjacent to a defender.

Keunert, thanks for the screenie; I've looked before but could not find it, but will look again. It seems fairly inconspicuous if it is that important. Another dumb question: when I click on any HQ I get a distracting rainbow-colored overlay--is that HQ power, I can't find in the manual what this overlay is?

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 33

RE: Looking at DCCB - 10/29/2012 4:13:40 PM

Keunert

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Thats the HQ power range. i think 100% is a 8 hex range. every hex more gives a 20% penalty.
the manual is by far the worst part of the game.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 34

RE: Looking at DCCB - 10/29/2012 6:37:39 PM

LiquidSky

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If you click on a unit. Then press the Unit Details Tab. Under the Basic Detail tab you will see all kinds of interesting information on that unit:

The HQ Power is the percentage modifier applied to cards when they are played, and to the HQ Combat mod/Morale Mod. If the unit is within 5 of the Parent HQ, it will say 100%. If you are 6 hexes away, it will be 75%, at 7 it will be 50% and at 8 it will be 25%.

SO if the card gives a 40 bonus to attack, at range 8 that will only be a 20 bonus.

Basically try and keep all units within 5 of the Corp HQ (that's Army to you poor slobs on the other side of the tracks), and all Corps within 5 of its Army.

Note that any units attached to the higher commands (Army or OKH) will not get any combat or morale mod.

The HQ combat mod 86% is equal to that big percentage you see when you click on the HQ. It is at full strength because I am close enough to get 100% (within 5 hexes).

The unit is a bit low on supply stock as it has been doing a lot of fighting, and is only getting 75% of its requested supplies (39 instead of 52) as it is over 100 AP's away, but less then 150 Aps from OKH (following the path of OKH->Army->Corp->unit) as I am using hardcore supply rules.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by LiquidSky -- 10/29/2012 6:46:33 PM >

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Post #: 35

RE: Looking at DCCB - 10/29/2012 9:18:59 PM

76mm

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Liquidsky, thanks, very helpful.

Does anyone know if I can turn the HQ power overlay off? It really lights up the map when I click on an HQ unit, and not in a good way!

(in reply to LiquidSky)

Post #: 36

RE: Looking at DCCB - 10/29/2012 9:30:07 PM

stonestriker

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76mm, you can find the option to turn off the HQ power overlay in the Prefs, when you are in a game.

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Post #: 37

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/1/2012 12:39:43 PM

patchogue

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With the stack move issue you could argue that the game is representing command and control from army to corps to division - so anything else requires extra staff work (clicks).

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Post #: 38

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/1/2012 12:58:33 PM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: patchogue
With the stack move issue you could argue that the game is representing command and control from army to corps to division - so anything else requires extra staff work (clicks).

heh, yeah, I guess, but it is still a pain in the ***. I am just really sick of all of the clicks necessary to move 3 of 4 of a regiment's divisions, etc.

(in reply to patchogue)

Post #: 39

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/1/2012 9:48:15 PM

LiquidSky

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Most of the time I am either moving full divisions with the multi move button, or my divisions are sitting static on the front. Only in the opening stages of the campaign, when the Russians are retreating a couple hexes per turn, do I have to move my divisions piecemeal, and I admit it is a pain.

For the Russians, I suppose they can have an awful lot of non divisional units stacked together, and it would be nice to be able to move them all together.

Perhaps it would be more useful if the multi move button referred to all units in the hex, instead of pulling all the divisional units...or maybe just add a button.

_____________________________

To the right General Patton, to the left the British Army, to the rear our own artillery, and besides all that its raining. And the only good thing to say about the weather: it keeps our air corps from blowing us all to Hell because its too lousy to fly.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 40

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/1/2012 9:51:09 PM

James Ward

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky
Perhaps it would be more useful if the multi move button referred to all units in the hex, instead of pulling all the divisional units...or maybe just add a button.

That would be cool. Heck sometimes just advancing after combat requires a ton of clicks.

(in reply to LiquidSky)

Post #: 41

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/2/2012 12:01:53 AM

henri51

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You can move a whole corps (in a stack or not) by pressing the double up arrow instead of the single arrow. They will all try to go to the same hex, which can cause problems if the were holding a line.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 42

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/2/2012 6:34:02 AM

76mm

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Henri, I perfectly understand how the group move works, I just don't like it and don't see why this mechanic is better than using stacks. 9 times out of 10, if I have the elements of a division in different hexes, it is because I want them in different hexes. I think every other war game I've ever played allows you to select entire stacks, and that is no accident...

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Post #: 43

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/2/2012 12:56:52 PM

James Ward

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^ Playing as the Russians it really is a lot of clicking because of all the tank and rifle brigades. I like a button to move a distinct organization, it helps me keep organized, but a move stack button would also be nice.

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Post #: 44

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/2/2012 2:35:05 PM

redmarkus4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

^ Playing as the Russians it really is a lot of clicking because of all the tank and rifle brigades. I like a button to move a distinct organization, it helps me keep organized, but a move stack button would also be nice.

+1. Essential, I would say.

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Post #: 45

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 6:46:02 PM

76mm

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meh. I just finished my first game as German against the Sov AI, the long Case Blue Scenario on Normal setting. While I generally enjoyed it, I thought that the AI was pretty lame, and some game features I'm not too keen on.

When I say that the AI is lame, I mean that I wouldn't have expected to get an autowin in late November in my first game; I'd taken Stalingrad, Poti, and Baku, was close to taking the town in the southeast corner of the map (Chapaev?), and was about to wipe out the AI's northern flank just east of Saratov (kind of piling on, and using the north map edge, but still...). I don't expect too much from game AI's, but generally if I get an autowin the first time out the gate I regard that as a bad sign...

I like a lot about the game, but the amount of clicking due to the simple lack of ability to select a stack drives me kind of crazy. I also didn't care for some other game features, like how units, even infantry units, which are out of supply immediately lose all ability to move, or how land units have to attack aircraft on bases, etc.

I'm debating now whether to try a DCCB server game vs a human opponent or move to a new East Front game which I've just picked up; any thoughts from the crowd?

< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/7/2012 7:49:16 PM >

(in reply to redmarkus4)

Post #: 46

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 7:28:50 PM

wodin

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OT sort of...what is the other game??

Also I maybe up for buying the game off you if that is possible..

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Post #: 47

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 7:43:27 PM

76mm

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The new Panzer Campaigns Moscow '42 (Russian counter-attack from Moscow and hypothetical German attack in summer of '42). I generally like monster games, and this new one qualifies, but it might be overkill. The last Panzer Campaigns game I played (Minsk '44) was tedious as hell.

Nor sure if I am ready to sell this one yet; I actually like many of its features and think it could be pretty fun vs a human opponent, just not sure if I want to spend that much time on it. I just had another WitE opponent disappear on me, however, so I'm tempted to do a server game with DCCB.

I'm mainly glad that developers like Vic and Tiller are bringing out quality East Front games, its just that in the last couple of years there has been sort of an embarrassment of riches, and I don't have time to play them all so I have to more selective than I would like.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/7/2012 7:45:22 PM >

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Post #: 48

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 7:47:57 PM

76mm

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A few comments about the Sov AI: first, it generally did a terrible job of pulling back and generally sat there until it was almost completely surrounded. Second, it made lots of idiotic attacks in which it would punch a hole in my lines, push several divisions two hexes ahead, and only leave one or two divisions holding the hex which it just took. So it was generally very easy to attack the penetration at the base, cut if off and isolate the deeper Sov units, after which they were dead. Many times I would be on the verge of encircling a bunch of Sov units, and units at the western edge of the impending pocket would be attacking to to the west instead of pulling back to the east.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/7/2012 7:53:28 PM >

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Post #: 49

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 7:53:24 PM

wallas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

Playing as the Russians it really is a lot of clicking because of all the tank and rifle brigades.

Brigades for me have 3-4 clicks each all game. One move them to a rail line, two rail them to Stavka, three attach to stavka, four diband them.

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Post #: 50

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 7:57:21 PM

wodin

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76mm your like me east front all the way. Though I shy away from games above the coy level usually.

Anyway if you ever fancy selling keep me in mind.

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Post #: 51

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 7:58:55 PM

James Ward

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wallas

quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

Playing as the Russians it really is a lot of clicking because of all the tank and rifle brigades.

Brigades for me have 3-4 clicks each all game. One move them to a rail line, two rail them to Stavka, three attach to stavka, four diband them.

Just disband them in place. They will send back their troops slowly over time.

I use them a lot, especially the tank brigades. 1 brigade and 1 Division in a hex offers a little extra protection from German Panzer attacks. Plus they can sometimes give you an extra hex to attack from.

(in reply to wallas)

Post #: 52

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 8:06:32 PM

76mm

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Are you Sov players playing the AI or humans? Is it fun playing as Sov vs the AI? I'm afraid it would be a slaughter...are you playing on some higher difficulty setting?

tmr

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 53

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 8:13:23 PM

James Ward

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

A few comments about the Sov AI: first, it generally did a terrible job of pulling back and generally sat there until it was almost completely surrounded. Second, it made lots of idiotic attacks in which it would punch a hole in my lines, push several divisions two hexes ahead, and only leave one or two divisions holding the hex which it just took. So it was generally very easy to attack the penetration at the base, cut if off and isolate the deeper Sov units, after which they were dead. Many times I would be on the verge of encircling a bunch of Sov units, and units at the western edge of the impending pocket would be attacking to to the west instead of pulling back to the east.

I think overall the AI isn't that bad about moving units given the large map and the wide range of strategic/tactical decisions to be made each turn. It is better than a lot of other games. That said it can certainly use improvement.

One thing that might help is to program the use of cards and political points. It does not use them anywhere near as good as a human will.

Speaking from a Russian AI point of view (as I think most people play the Germans) the AI should get a minimum number of Political Points each turn, say 50 on easy, 75 on normal etc. and the cost of replacement cards should be capped at 3-4 times the starting cost.

The first thing that should be done is is to replace leaders with organization levels that will trigger penalties. Once all leader have been upgraded they if should default to the way it is now for replacing them.

It should play certain cards every turn if they have the points. It should always play the fortification card each turn. It should then play the infantry replacement card followed by the tank card. The Russian AI will need bodies. After that cards should be played in a more random fashion. After a certain date the card playing should default to the way it is now.

The Tilbisi supply center should be automatically built by a certain date. It could be randomized but it should be given to the AI as it will probably never have enough points to build it when it is needed.

If threatened Stavka should move for free.

It should not build any new units until it's stance changes or on a given date, say December.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 54

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 8:18:26 PM

James Ward

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Are you Sov players playing the AI or humans? Is it fun playing as Sov vs the AI? I'm afraid it would be a slaughter...are you playing on some higher difficulty setting?

tmr

I have play as the Russians on Normal with Slow AI processing twice. The AI has a hard time sustaining an attack. It will kick your butt locally from time to time but you will be able to build a line and stop them much easier than a Human opponent. I did not lose Vorhnez or Rostov either time and it never got withing shouting distance of Stalingrad. Both games were pretty much over before November came.
I guess playing on higher levels would help delay the inevitable but without the ability to follow a strategy or identify strategic threats the AI ultimately does not have a chance.

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Post #: 55

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 8:22:39 PM

76mm

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James, you mention a couple of issues I wanted to address:

First, while I'm sure your suggestions would help the Sov AI, they dont address the biggest issue--it doesn't understand when to pull back!

Second, I don't understand fortification in this game; it seems like it would not go over 100 for my units, even if I played cards, etc. Seems kinda low. Also, I noted in the manual that units in frozen/snow conditions get a fortification bonus, which seemed very odd to me--the snow berms stop bullets, or what? In most games I've seen, it is HARDER to fortify in frozen weather, since the pixeltruppen can't dig into the frozen ground. I was curious about the rationale for this frozen/snow fortification bonus in DCCB?

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 56

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 8:26:14 PM

76mm

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Another thing I wanted to mention: I was surprised by the high morale of the Sov units in this game, often it was higher than my German units, although morale was certainly all over the map, I think the lowest I saw was 7, and the highest 100. Overall I would have expected Sov morale to be lower.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 57

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 8:45:02 PM

James Ward

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

James, you mention a couple of issues I wanted to address:

First, while I'm sure your suggestions would help the Sov AI, they dont address the biggest issue--it doesn't understand when to pull back!

Second, I don't understand fortification in this game; it seems like it would not go over 100 for my units, even if I played cards, etc. Seems kinda low. Also, I noted in the manual that units in frozen/snow conditions get a fortification bonus, which seemed very odd to me--the snow berms stop bullets, or what? In most games I've seen, it is HARDER to fortify in frozen weather, since the pixeltruppen can't dig into the frozen ground. I was curious about the rationale for this frozen/snow fortification bonus in DCCB?

I'm not sure what can be done about the AI movement, I'm not sure how hard it is to change.

Given time you will entrench to 200 in a fortification. I never even realize the frozen/snow thing.

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Post #: 58

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/7/2012 8:46:57 PM

James Ward

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Another thing I wanted to mention: I was surprised by the high morale of the Sov units in this game, often it was higher than my German units, although morale was certainly all over the map, I think the lowest I saw was 7, and the highest 100. Overall I would have expected Sov morale to be lower.

I think if a unit is rested and supplied the morale will rise. I think it also goes up if you win battles. I don't think I ever had a unit more than 50 without playing a card though.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 59

RE: Looking at DCCB - 11/8/2012 7:06:57 AM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward
I'm not sure what can be done about the AI movement, I'm not sure how hard it is to change.

I'm no programmer, but I expect that this would be fairly hard to fix. The German AI in WitE has essentially the same problem.

But what do other players think about this "out of supply" issue? I had a couple of frustrating situations: around Stalingrad I had a traffic jam of units crossing the Volga, and I moved one regiment onto the island south of the city. Unfortunately for some reason it got stuck there and could not move back off the island until the river froze a couple of months later. Another time I had a security unit chasing a partisan unit up by the north map edge, and the partisan unit moved on, leaving a trail of Sov-controlled hexes which immobilized the security unit, which I found very odd.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/8/2012 7:08:11 AM >

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 60