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TF max reaction

 
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TF max reaction - 10/11/2012 8:58:29 AM   
Chris H

 

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From: Bexhill-on-Sea, E Sussex
Status: online 		Why are sub and PT TF restricted to a max reaction of one hex?
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RE: TF max reaction - 10/11/2012 1:07:48 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Why are sub and PT TF restricted to a max reaction of one hex?


When the game shipped subs had a max reaction of 6--240 miles. This led to subs galloping around the map, leaving patrol areas, as well as a lot of sinkings of both targets and subs. This was changed to one hex in an early patch. The logic is that subs have very short horizons due to their hull structures, and no OTH search capability. They don't have planes to search or screen ships. PT boats the same.

For subs in particular the 1-hex change helps near shallow water and harbors. Before it was much easier for a sub to pursue into either and die.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/11/2012 1:08:18 PM >

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The Moose

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RE: TF max reaction - 10/11/2012 11:32:31 PM   
Chris H

 

Posts: 2874
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From: Bexhill-on-Sea, E Sussex
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Why are sub and PT TF restricted to a max reaction of one hex?


When the game shipped subs had a max reaction of 6--240 miles. This led to subs galloping around the map, leaving patrol areas, as well as a lot of sinkings of both targets and subs. This was changed to one hex in an early patch. The logic is that subs have very short horizons due to their hull structures, and no OTH search capability. They don't have planes to search or screen ships. PT boats the same.

For subs in particular the 1-hex change helps near shallow water and harbors. Before it was much easier for a sub to pursue into either and die.


I think I've been misunderstanding Max reaction. I thougth it was detection range and reaction distance was 1 hex. I do not think I've ever noticed a TF reacting more than one hex, but there again I've assumed 1 hex.

General what you said makes sense and I must have missed the reason when it was patched. Two thing, late war subs had radar so the detection range would be greater and if detected at say morning/forenoon watch could increase from cruise speed (10kts) to full (20kts) to close the distance and maybe close 110-120 miles in 10 hrs . Any further and you would be close to going into the next day. Even a fast moving TF cruising at 20kts would only increase to 30Kts, again 10kts so the same distance is the same. Oh! and some Japanese subs do have a/c.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
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RE: TF max reaction - 10/12/2012 9:59:08 PM   
packerpete

 

Posts: 98
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline 		I think you would be an extremely lucky sub commander to get an 80 nautical mile in all directions radar horizon, because the subs radar antenna was not mounted on an extendable mast but was mounted very low on the hull. Not to mention that the antenna was probably getting more than just a little wave action in all but the calmest of weather conditions. I will not talk about corrosion problems either.

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RE: TF max reaction - 10/12/2012 10:02:46 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H
I think I've been misunderstanding Max reaction. I thougth it was detection range and reaction distance was 1 hex. I do not think I've ever noticed a TF reacting more than one hex, but there again I've assumed 1 hex.

ASW TFs in particualr can benefit from big reaction ranges.

General what you said makes sense and I must have missed the reason when it was patched. Two thing, late war subs had radar so the detection range would be greater

Generally still inside one hex. 40 NM across.




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The Moose

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RE: TF max reaction - 10/13/2012 8:08:49 AM   
Chris H

 

Posts: 2874
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Bexhill-on-Sea, E Sussex
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H
I think I've been misunderstanding Max reaction. I thougth it was detection range and reaction distance was 1 hex. I do not think I've ever noticed a TF reacting more than one hex, but there again I've assumed 1 hex.

ASW TFs in particualr can benefit from big reaction ranges.

General what you said makes sense and I must have missed the reason when it was patched. Two thing, late war subs had radar so the detection range would be greater

Generally still inside one hex. 40 NM across.






Again I agree subs are fine, but my main point has been missed. Can a fast moving TF cruising at 20kts move 6 hexes (250 miles), well yes by increasing to 30kts but it would take 24hrs which would take any contact into the next day. No surface combat but air combat is possible. Should surface TF also be restricted in max range say to 3 or 4 hexes?

< Message edited by Chris H -- 10/13/2012 8:19:01 AM >

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RE: TF max reaction - 10/13/2012 12:16:38 PM   
Sardaukar


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From: Finland/now in Malta
Status: offline 		These things were debated quite a lot when game shipped. Subs were really running amok...I had US subs to follow IJ TF from Tokyo to Attu I. during 2 day turn..they were just way overpowered.

As with surface combat, there would be nothing way too special for Surface Combat TF to sprint 6 hexes (240 nm), since phase (half turn) is 12 hrs and it'd be just 20 knot sailing to achieve it. Surface TFs have never reacted too much.

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RE: TF max reaction - 10/13/2012 3:15:07 PM   
Chris H

 

Posts: 2874
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Bexhill-on-Sea, E Sussex
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

As with surface combat, there would be nothing way too special for Surface Combat TF to sprint 6 hexes (240 nm), since phase (half turn) is 12 hrs and it'd be just 20 knot sailing to achieve it. Surface TFs have never reacted too much.


This is why I thought it was detection range having never noticed how far they went and thinking it was one hex. Now since I posted this I have seen Japanese surface TF react three hexes which is reasonable.

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 8
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