Matrix Games Forums

To End All Wars: Mountain InfantryPandora: Eclipse of Nashira Announced! Deal of the Week: Command Ops goes half price!New Fronts are opening up for Commander: The Great WarCharacters of World War 1Sign of for the Pike and Shot Beta!More Games are Coming to Steam! Return to the Moon on October 31st! Commander: The Great War iPad Wallpapers Generals of the Great War
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/9/2012 7:13:38 PM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 190
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline
Interesting Discussion Involving Decisions That Honestly Are Thought-provoking.

Simple idea of mine. I have many questions about decisions I make. I try to read the many AARs and Q&A that occur here, but minor details always make me wonder. So with smart bomb like precision, I am going to post a series of questions about very specific decisions I have made, that make me wonder. Please keep answers as focused as possible and I hope to be making more of these if it receives good feedback.

Now, there is a number of AMC ships that can convert to AKs (notice, not xAKs) that I have been doing in the past. I am now reconsidering this decision.



Would you make the above conversion and why?


My answer used to be, YES. Can't get enough of these AKs! New answer is (based on forum feedback): Hold off doing this because of the multi-role ability of these AMCs.

Note: this question is about THIS specific conversion with these particular arms. I will do further AMC posting. Lack of knowledge of the weaponry is my biggest question here.

< Message edited by CyrusSpitama -- 10/9/2012 7:16:30 PM >


_____________________________

"I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It's just been too intelligent to come here." - Arthur C. Clarke
Post #: 1
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/9/2012 7:18:01 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4005
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
I guess it depends on your situation and what you are planning on doing.

If you need more cargo lift, then yes, you should convert.

_____________________________

Follow our WiTPAE team PBEM game against bilbow and hartwig.modrow http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2965846&mpage=1&key=?

Follow my WITPAE PBEM game against Schanilec. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3495605

(in reply to CyrusSpitama)
Post #: 2
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/9/2012 7:21:59 PM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 190
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline
Thanks for the rapid response Jeff. I was horribly maiming my convoy setup previously and hence was starved for cargo. Not so much anymore. The AA guns on that AK are all short ranged items, so its value as an AK seems rather lessened. Are there other things to consider with this decision?

_____________________________

"I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It's just been too intelligent to come here." - Arthur C. Clarke

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 3
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/10/2012 2:00:58 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7109
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

I guess it depends on your situation and what you are planning on doing.

If you need more cargo lift, then yes, you should convert.


Agreed.

Though if you want cargo lift that can hold its own against DDs or even some CLs, then don't comvert. They are great force multipliers.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 4
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/10/2012 5:22:35 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 2870
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
Small OT: Looking at the data, why the AMC has such a low quantity of main gun rounds? with all that space and their supposed missions that could be certainly several months one would expect much more.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 5
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/10/2012 6:35:31 AM   
Puhis

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
Don't convert. AMCs are military ships like AKs, they have the same unload bonus compared to xAKs. IMO AMCs are more useful. They are only lacking AA guns, but it doesn't matter much because AKs are lousy AA ships anyway.

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 6
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/10/2012 10:52:30 AM   
Helldiver


Posts: 86
Joined: 5/21/2008
From: SRA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

Don't convert. AMCs are military ships like AKs, they have the same unload bonus compared to xAKs. IMO AMCs are more useful. They are only lacking AA guns, but it doesn't matter much because AKs are lousy AA ships anyway.

+1

In addition, early war and especially for me say, south of Truk, AMCs are useful in Fast Transport TFs to quickly deploy naval infantry and other light ground forces. Even though they are minor ships, their capacity and relative speed make them among the most flexible in the inventory. I would be hesitant to convert them.

Helldiver

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 7
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/10/2012 3:32:52 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17862
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
The Japanese player doesn't get enough AK, AKA, APA or other fast unloading types of ships. These things are much more useful IMO than another high VP, undergunned and vulnerable AMC. Convert.

_____________________________


(in reply to Helldiver)
Post #: 8
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/10/2012 4:14:07 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2058
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

The Japanese player doesn't get enough AK, AKA, APA or other fast unloading types of ships. These things are much more useful IMO than another high VP, undergunned and vulnerable AMC. Convert.


I'm onboard with this point of view which is my feelings exactly.



_____________________________


”How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!” ~ Samuel Adams

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 9
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/10/2012 6:14:07 PM   
Puhis

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

The Japanese player doesn't get enough AK, AKA, APA or other fast unloading types of ships. These things are much more useful IMO than another high VP, undergunned and vulnerable AMC. Convert.


I'm onboard with this point of view which is my feelings exactly.



AKs and AMCs have exactly same unloading speed...

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 10
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/10/2012 7:37:15 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 198
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
The Japanese player doesn't get enough AK, AKA, APA or other fast unloading types of ships. These things are much more useful IMO than another high VP, undergunned and vulnerable AMC. Convert.

I'm onboard with this point of view which is my feelings exactly.

AKs and AMCs have exactly same unloading speed...

Everyone is correct. The original idea was to force a choice between big guns and load advantages. Seems Puhis found a hole in the code. But hey, no worries mates, we will fix that in Babes by severely reducing the cargo capacities of AMCs

An AMC did not have the fixtures or the integral boats, or anything, that would allow them to function as (no x)AKs. And barely enough to function as a wimpy (x)AK. Thanks Puhis for bringing this out.

Matt

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 11
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/10/2012 8:10:03 PM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 190
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline
Thanks all for the wonderful input. Things are now clear as mud for this decision Bottom line, I wanted to get a discussion with a very narrow focus on certain decisions we all make during the course of the war. This has certainly driven me to continue this Q&A series.

_____________________________

"I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It's just been too intelligent to come here." - Arthur C. Clarke

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 12
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/11/2012 5:35:33 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5623
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

The Japanese player doesn't get enough AK, AKA, APA or other fast unloading types of ships. These things are much more useful IMO than another high VP, undergunned and vulnerable AMC. Convert.


I'm onboard with this point of view which is my feelings exactly.



AKs and AMCs have exactly same unloading speed...

I did not know this ... is this in the manual?

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 13
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/11/2012 6:22:39 AM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 190
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline
I was wondering if tests have confirmed this as well. Not that I wish to doubt Puhis, but others have shown doubts as well.

_____________________________

"I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It's just been too intelligent to come here." - Arthur C. Clarke

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 14
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/11/2012 2:21:58 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17862
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

The Japanese player doesn't get enough AK, AKA, APA or other fast unloading types of ships. These things are much more useful IMO than another high VP, undergunned and vulnerable AMC. Convert.


I'm onboard with this point of view which is my feelings exactly.



AKs and AMCs have exactly same unloading speed...



Even if that was the case, and is working as designed, you're still talking fast unload for 3375 tons vs. 4808 tons. You're giving up 42% of your lift / load capacity for the extra (unnecessary) guns there.

Sure, AMCs have a place in the game-particularly early on. As Allied defensive capabilities spin up, however, they are rapidly outdated, IMO. Again, I say build the AK, forego the AMC conversion. YMMV.

_____________________________


(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 15
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/11/2012 3:04:48 PM   
CV 2

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 2/21/2011
Status: offline
Putting them with a convoy is a waste.

The only "real" function of leaving them as Q ships is to do long range raiding with them. Then you have to decide what kind of player you are.

1) you play for the fun of it and dont care who wins.

2) you actually want to "win the game", in which case points are everything and you have to weigh the loss points vs the damage they will cause in loss points, keeping in mind that Japan needs to get 3+ times more points out of every point they lose to make it worthwhile.

I am a player type 2. As such, they are useless to me as raiders so I personally convert them. This is also the reason I never use mini-subs.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 16
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/11/2012 6:41:28 PM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 190
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline
Once again I say, clear as mud :) Previously, I converted all AMCs that could into AKs. With this current game, I have held off doing so, but it is also quite early in the war. My change occurred when I saw convoy management was better done and I had more transport ship options, freeing these AMCs up for amphib duty. I have yet to even attempt such a tactic as raiding except when it was me catching the computer shipping things on the fringes of the front. So, the raiding thing doesn't really effect my tactics.

My primary concern and was hinted at when I started this post, is whether those weak AA guns were worth the conversion or if the other (un)known factors meant to rush and/or delay the conversion. Once again, I am thankful for all the responses and I hope this topic has aided others with similar decisions. I am preparing my next thread with a very similar ship, but one that should be an easier topic of debate.

_____________________________

"I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It's just been too intelligent to come here." - Arthur C. Clarke

(in reply to CV 2)
Post #: 17
RE: IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion - 10/12/2012 4:04:33 AM   
CV 2

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 2/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CyrusSpitama

Once again I say, clear as mud :) Previously, I converted all AMCs that could into AKs. With this current game, I have held off doing so, but it is also quite early in the war. My change occurred when I saw convoy management was better done and I had more transport ship options, freeing these AMCs up for amphib duty. I have yet to even attempt such a tactic as raiding except when it was me catching the computer shipping things on the fringes of the front. So, the raiding thing doesn't really effect my tactics.

My primary concern and was hinted at when I started this post, is whether those weak AA guns were worth the conversion or if the other (un)known factors meant to rush and/or delay the conversion. Once again, I am thankful for all the responses and I hope this topic has aided others with similar decisions. I am preparing my next thread with a very similar ship, but one that should be an easier topic of debate.


Well frankly, that IS one thing they are good for, and thats putting into amphib TFs to help suppress return fire. But I make so few opposed landings that when I do, I have BB support and dont need them for that. They wont take a lot of damage, so landing at even like Darwin (where there is 6" guns) is out of the question for them.

Like I said, personally, I convert them.

(in reply to CyrusSpitama)
Post #: 18
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> IDIDTHAT! Vol.1- Akagi AMC conversion Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.088