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Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed)

 
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Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/8/2012 9:23:34 PM   
rroberson

 

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Okay, so I'm getting a shot at a true Japanese Pro player (unlike myself who just dabbles) and he is just crushing me in our game. So Im going to lay it out and start getting some advice from the allied fan boys here (lord knows I almost never get to play with them so Id like to survive).

We have been going at it for about 3 months game time and he has absolutely put the hurt on me. So much so that I started to surrender saturday night (thus my frustration level) after watching a horrible carrier encounter off Lunga that saw me losing a couple of mine for no losses of his.

That wasn't that big of a deal to me though the loss of the naval air hurts, it's not unexpected. What he is doing in China though...yikes

[image][/image]

I have never witnessed such a blitz past the peasant soldiers in china before...We are in mid-march of 42 and the collaspe of the Chinese army is complete. I have by in large held the line at Changsha (including driving his forces backwards) but have been forced to retreat out of the city and send the bulk of my army north towards Sian, where he breaches line after line and now controls that city. There are very few solid troops between him and Chungking now and my understanding (I don't play the allies much) if China falls the game is over. I have used the chi-coms to keep some of his forces busy behind the main drive but I am really at a loss how to counter this.



< Message edited by rroberson -- 10/8/2012 10:09:30 PM >


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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/8/2012 9:40:11 PM   
GreyJoy


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Post a screenshot map plz.

However Sian has fallen already? If so, fall back on the mountains... if not, you can still save it.

Stacking limits or not?

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/8/2012 9:44:55 PM   
rroberson

 

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Just for added grief he is pushing hard into Australia...while I know he won't push much further I literally have nothing I can throw against him. I believe he has at least 3 combat divisions here and is making good use of the airfield at Darwin.

[image][/image]

Mostly Aussie brigades and the like.

I do have a couple of RN CVs operating off the western Aussie coast but honestly his betty/nell force will make short work of them. The Australian troops one usually would send to burma have been diverted and are landing at Broome instead, but again IM pretty far back on my heels.

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/8/2012 9:45:31 PM   
rroberson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Post a screenshot map plz.

However Sian has fallen already? If so, fall back on the mountains... if not, you can still save it.

Stacking limits or not?



No stacking limits...which I'm starting to see why that is a house rule.

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/8/2012 9:52:09 PM   
GreyJoy


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No worries. I've lost China and India in the same game...and managed to land in Hokkaido in jan 44... The allies always recover!

However for China, abbandon everything east of Ichang (included) and move all your fresh corps into the mountains north of Sian. Defend ONLY in rough terrain or mountains. Defend every hex...gain time...and settle more corps into mountain hexes (with roads!). Your priority is to keep the flow of fuel from Lanchow, so you have to defend that road with everything you have.

Beware of not letting bases or dot-bases undefended on your back...he can use paras!

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/8/2012 10:00:00 PM   
rroberson

 

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And the Solomons where I was dumb. I have a small contingent of Aussies on Lunga to serve as a trip wire more then anything else. I had been scouting Tulagi for weeks and given the amount of troops he has spread out between PM, Darwin, Java, Malasya, the PI and China I felt like he was spread thin. Because he had done not one thing in the Solomons area.

Stupid me...I decided to send the 8th Marines and support units to grab Tulagi while he was focused else where...but I lost track of his carriers (he is a clever bastard at hiding them)

[image][/image]

It was ugly. His carriers suddenly popped up and delivered me quite a pounding. This little soiree cost me 3 fleet carriers and an assortment of APs and marines...I did manage to save most of the troops (New Calendonia has rapidly become a major base for me so I had several fighter squadrons in place to protect the fleeing troop ships.

Needless to say he hurt me badly...

< Message edited by rroberson -- 10/8/2012 10:15:32 PM >


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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/8/2012 10:10:00 PM   
GreyJoy


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You can recover. Trust me: there's no limit in how much pounding can the allies suffer!

Start defending India. Garrison Bombay and Karachi heavily and immediately.

Abbandon Northern Oz...you can get back there easily...there's nothing for him there. Let him overextend...let him burn fuel and supplies.

Now focus on saving China untill you can

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/8/2012 10:13:10 PM   
rroberson

 

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How much of a threat is there for him to march south from darwin and split oz in two? I haven't played with the allies very often over the years...so Im unsure...but has that happened?

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/8/2012 10:44:39 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson

How much of a threat is there for him to march south from darwin and split oz in two? I haven't played with the allies very often over the years...so Im unsure...but has that happened?


I say almost impossible. The supply path, once passed Daily Waters, is almost non existent. Stop him cold at Alice spirng and somehwere north of Brisbane...don't get your troops cut off and you should be fine...you'll eventually trap him up there when you'll have the strenght to. Don't worry

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/9/2012 2:19:28 AM   
Dan Nichols


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Make sure you have your Australian armor units upgraded to Matilda II and/or Grant Tanks. In the open they are deadly to the Japanese land forces. And they will move faster than his too. You can cut him off from supply and pound away.

From CV2's posting I thought this game was over. You can recover, listen to GreyJoy, he has been there and returned.

< Message edited by Dan Nichols -- 10/9/2012 2:20:32 AM >

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/9/2012 2:32:17 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson

How much of a threat is there for him to march south from darwin and split oz in two? I haven't played with the allies very often over the years...so Im unsure...but has that happened?


I say almost impossible. The supply path, once passed Daily Waters, is almost non existent. Stop him cold at Alice spirng and somehwere north of Brisbane...don't get your troops cut off and you should be fine...you'll eventually trap him up there when you'll have the strenght to. Don't worry

+ 1
The Japanese face some very real problems trying to keep the big perimeter they establish. The allies will have lots of opportunity to pick as spot to hit once they get some more assets in place. Recon is most critical in the early stages - you must see his carriers before they see yours next time.

See Adm. Spruances' AAR on this forum for ideas on how to set up recon and picket patrols and how to use allied navies to hit where they know KB is not. Spruance smashed Rabaul in early 1942 [69 bomb hits on Mutsu!] and I think it was in May 1942 he knocked off a lot of KB in the Solomons area. He is very good a keeping the IJN guessing about his intentions and ship movements.

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/9/2012 3:25:54 AM   
rroberson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

Make sure you have your Australian armor units upgraded to Matilda II and/or Grant Tanks. In the open they are deadly to the Japanese land forces. And they will move faster than his too. You can cut him off from supply and pound away.

From CV2's posting I thought this game was over. You can recover, listen to GreyJoy, he has been there and returned.



Yeah that was after a full day of fighting (we had run at least a week's worth of turn's that day) and I was pretty frustrated by the end of it..after the disaster at Lunga I offered my white flag. We chatted a bit and I realized that I was actually playing a hardcore player (former beta) and despite my battered ego I realized I could actually learn a good bit from him playing the allies so we continued forward in the game.

He was willing to continue to pound me :-).

I also decided to make this an AAR after that. I haven't written one that sustained itself for years...but I feel like this a difficult situation that might be interesting for allied players who are fleeing everywhere. Xargun was my last allied game and he kicked my ass all over the pacific until I finally tendered my surrender.

< Message edited by rroberson -- 10/9/2012 3:30:17 AM >


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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/9/2012 3:26:57 AM   
rroberson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson

How much of a threat is there for him to march south from darwin and split oz in two? I haven't played with the allies very often over the years...so Im unsure...but has that happened?


I say almost impossible. The supply path, once passed Daily Waters, is almost non existent. Stop him cold at Alice spirng and somehwere north of Brisbane...don't get your troops cut off and you should be fine...you'll eventually trap him up there when you'll have the strenght to. Don't worry

+ 1
The Japanese face some very real problems trying to keep the big perimeter they establish. The allies will have lots of opportunity to pick as spot to hit once they get some more assets in place. Recon is most critical in the early stages - you must see his carriers before they see yours next time.

See Adm. Spruances' AAR on this forum for ideas on how to set up recon and picket patrols and how to use allied navies to hit where they know KB is not. Spruance smashed Rabaul in early 1942 [69 bomb hits on Mutsu!] and I think it was in May 1942 he knocked off a lot of KB in the Solomons area. He is very good a keeping the IJN guessing about his intentions and ship movements.



good advice Ill pop over to that thread.

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/9/2012 6:23:48 AM   
Commander Cody


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Roberson: Do what Stalin did: Trade space for time. There's very little you truly have to defend and you seem fixated on not letting him go beyond the historical highwater mark. If he goes too deep in the South Pacific, then set up a supply line from East Coast to Cape Town to Perth. Also, set up Abadan to Karachi to Cape Town to Perth for fuel. Just be sure not to lose Perth. Northern Oz is a minor distraction--that dirt road isn't the best at moving supplies.

Above all: Listen well to GreyJoy. He has the requisite battle scars. He probably has the greatest comeback in AE history. As I type that, I am bowing toward the boot of Italy.

Cheers,
CC

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/9/2012 2:54:51 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Don´t worry about China. Almost all Jap players quickly conquers it.

Playing as the allies are an exercise in frustration early on. He will steamroll you for a while yet but slowly, slowly you will be able to start halting the advance. Doing anything on the offense as early as you are is very, very dangerous as you just learned the hard way! Its way too early for you to start thinking about grand offensives. Stay put, dig in and as Commander Cody says. Trade space for time.

And don´t worry about the CVs. But don´t loose more of them!

And if you ever feel down just check out GreyJoys AAR and you will quickly feel better about yourself! :D


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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/9/2012 5:47:16 PM   
rroberson

 

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Some numbers 4 months in

[image][/image]


My pilots the one or two who survived are claiming two carriers...

[image][/image]

But based on the abundant amount of naval air that continued feast on my shipping off of Koumac...I tend to doubt we got any of his carriers.

It was pretty one-sided.

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 7:42:03 PM   
rroberson

 

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Koumac.

Having a terrible time supplying it. For some reason it's not drawing supplies overland from Noumea so I cannot keep more then 20 supplys there. I suspect I have it overstacked as I am trying to create the USS New Caledonia and build up the airbase and fortresses at both Noumea and Koumac. I have even sent a cargo ship full of supplies right to the base but no go. I'm going to back out a couple of the non-construction units to see if that helps.

Ill post a pic or two when I get home tonite.

Not a lot of action lately. Clearly he has run out of bombs. He has moved what appears to be between two or three carriers south of Java north of Broome. I saw them coming thanks to my patrol planes out of Koepang (which for some reason he has not attacked despite his march through Australia) so I was able to get most of my shipping out of the area before the red storm arrived.

I am restructing my defense of Australia now that Im sure he isn't going to advance any further south. It surprises me to see (as a long time japanese players) just how many divisions he has on the board now...he must be teetering along the Russian front to have freed up so many units.


To be honest his conquest of the area feels really backwards...maybe I have long done the same thing so long as the Japanese player that seeing something different really set my back on my heels.

But who takes Darwin before Java.

He is pulling it off due to all the free japanese troops running around AND conquering China to boot. So clearly he knows what he is doing.

< Message edited by rroberson -- 10/10/2012 7:44:09 PM >


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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 7:54:46 PM   
Canoerebel


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rroberson, as one who's been there, I can tell you there is light at the end of the tunnel. I've suffered devastating carrier losses early in the game, but the Allies do indeed always manage to come back...as long as the commander in chief doesn't despair but rather converts over to a very patient and resolute approach. And coming back from the brink of despair is always sweet.

GJ is right about China. It's tough (not impossible) for the Allies to defend pretty well, but when it falls the game isn't over. I think crsutton can speak to this as well as GreyJoy. And GJ is right - only fight in the mountains or wooded-rough terrain. There's lots of it in China, so find it and use it.

It is incredibly unlikely that he will try to pentrate through the interior of Oz further than Alice Springs. Supply would be a nightmare for him.

Don't know what Scenario you are playing, but if it's 2 or something similar, your opponent might be cooking up additional bold plans. It would worth your time to prepare an exhaustive list of every division Japan gets in the game, which ones start restricted, and what info you have about the current location of each. That will help you evaluate where your opponent is concentrating and when the danger of further large-scale operations is over. IE, if your opponent commits 10 or 12 divisions to Oz or India, etc., then at that point you know that other major targets are relatively safe since he can't be everywhere at once.

Good luck!

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 7:55:34 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson

Koumac.

Having a terrible time supplying it. For some reason it's not drawing supplies overland from Noumea so I cannot keep more then 20 supplys there. I suspect I have it overstacked as I am trying to create the USS New Caledonia and build up the airbase and fortresses at both Noumea and Koumac. I have even sent a cargo ship full of supplies right to the base but no go. I'm going to back out a couple of the non-construction units to see if that helps.



There's a dot base, LaFoa, in the middle on the road to Koumac. I don't think supplies will flow to the end of the island unless you populate LaFoa with something. I usualy just send a lone amphib xAKL directly to Koumac and get building. Depends on what he has around though.

Koumac can't be overstacked; unlimited troops. But it starts with an 8000 supply limit before spoilage.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/10/2012 8:00:03 PM >


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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 7:58:56 PM   
Canoerebel


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New Caledonia can be a prison camp for the Allies. Early on, Japan can take it if Japan wants it. Committing troops there is a good way to get troops killed (plus their transports sunk if your opponent is coming hard and fast). Be very, very careful about committing too far forward. Noumea is tough to defend (despite good terrain) since Japan can land two or three divisions up the coast and waltz right on across the island. Japan can impose a pretty tight blockade, especially since you can't risk your carriers any further. Noumea is not real important to you under the circumstances. You probably need to be concentrating more on Oz and maybe a redoubt somehwere in SoPac - maybe Pago Pago or Christmas.

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 8:01:22 PM   
rroberson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson

Koumac.

Having a terrible time supplying it. For some reason it's not drawing supplies overland from Noumea so I cannot keep more then 20 supplys there. I suspect I have it overstacked as I am trying to create the USS New Caledonia and build up the airbase and fortresses at both Noumea and Koumac. I have even sent a cargo ship full of supplies right to the base but no go. I'm going to back out a couple of the non-construction units to see if that helps.



There's a dot base, LaFoa, in the middle on the road to Koumac. I don't think supplies will flow to the end of the island unless you populate LaFoa with something. I usualy just send a lone amphib xAKL directly to Koumac and get building. Depends on what he has around though.

Koumac can't be overstacked; unlimited troops. But it starts with an 8000 supply limit before spoilage.



ah good to know I was sending the french troops there (they had been at Koumac) thinking that might be the issue.

thanks for the info.

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 8:08:54 PM   
rroberson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

New Caledonia can be a prison camp for the Allies. Early on, Japan can take it if Japan wants it. Committing troops there is a good way to get troops killed (plus their transports sunk if your opponent is coming hard and fast). Be very, very careful about committing too far forward. Noumea is tough to defend (despite good terrain) since Japan can land two or three divisions up the coast and waltz right on across the island. Japan can impose a pretty tight blockade, especially since you can't risk your carriers any further. Noumea is not real important to you under the circumstances. You probably need to be concentrating more on Oz and maybe a redoubt somehwere in SoPac - maybe Pago Pago or Christmas.



I have begun to build a series of defensive points to help protect my shipping between San Francisco and Auckland.

Auckland is growing to become my main supply depot. I have begun to build up Pago, Suva, Noumea and Tahiti with fighters, patrol planes and troops etc...I'm calling it the Roberson highway. I established Christmas Island as my forward supply depot day after the game started so it is building up nicely as well. The idea was to ship everything to San Francisco (nothing moves out of San Diego as he had a few subs poking around there at the start of the game) embark at SF and ship to Christmas Island. Unload, reembark on shipping from the South Pacific and drive down the highway to offload at Auckland. After that I decide what goes where along the front lines.

I discovered after my train wreck of a game with Xargun that aggressive Japanese players have no issue with sending carrier forces deep into the south and southwest pacific so I wanted to set up a patrol line this time around that way I don't suffer any surprises.

My big loss at Lunga was because my patrol planes at Noumea werent robust enough and I really thought I could sneak up and reinforce Lunga before he could get boots on the ground there given his interesting campaign strategy to date. I was coming to doubt he had any interest in that area.

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 8:16:48 PM   
khyberbill


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quote:

How much of a threat is there for him to march south from darwin and split oz in two? I haven't played with the allies very often over the years...so Im unsure...but has that happened?
Why not try it with me and see what happens? Perth is so boring this time of the year since the white sharks are off feeding elsewhere.

All kidding aside, build up the AF in Alice Springs/Cloncurry (like I have in our game) and pound into dust anything he sends down the road from Tenant Creek. Those Australian Beaufighters are useful here and B17s can be devastating on troops in the open. Nothing will venture very far south because he can not provide LRCAP. Be careful in New Caledonia. I beefed it up against JohnIII and he took it all. If you are concerned about this area, I would flood the ocean around there with S boats.

And where is my turn?

< Message edited by khyberbill -- 10/10/2012 8:23:23 PM >


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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 8:22:47 PM   
Canoerebel


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It's possible you're being too optimistic and aggressive in SoPac. If your opponent has big plans there, he can handle anything you try to do this early at many of those bases. If you have your heart set on these and commit too much there, you'll walk right into defeat.

Of course, it's possible that your opponent doesn't have big plans there so that you'll have the time needed to secure these bases. Just sayin' that's it's chancy to commit to a strategy too far forward early in a game against an experienced and aggressive opponent.

Besides, you really don't need to worry about the LOC between West Coast, NZ and Oz. It's not very important to you. If your opponent threatens or severs that particular LOC you can switch to others that are just as effective and perhaps even more secure.

SoPac was a center of attention in the Real War, but isn't particularly important in AE (unless two players decide it's important and thus commit forces there).

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 9:11:45 PM   
rroberson

 

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Here is a quick grab of Koumac.
[image][/image]
More later as the boss wants some video edited.

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 9:15:47 PM   
rroberson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

quote:

How much of a threat is there for him to march south from darwin and split oz in two? I haven't played with the allies very often over the years...so Im unsure...but has that happened?
Why not try it with me and see what happens? Perth is so boring this time of the year since the white sharks are off feeding elsewhere.

All kidding aside, build up the AF in Alice Springs/Cloncurry (like I have in our game) and pound into dust anything he sends down the road from Tenant Creek. Those Australian Beaufighters are useful here and B17s can be devastating on troops in the open. Nothing will venture very far south because he can not provide LRCAP. Be careful in New Caledonia. I beefed it up against JohnIII and he took it all. If you are concerned about this area, I would flood the ocean around there with S boats.

And where is my turn?


LOL its coming its coming busy few days at work.

My biggest problem with B17s is there really is no place to base them from in the Aussie interior...airfields are under construction but the lack of actual engineers or construction units means it going to take a lot of time.

Im pretty intent about holding Noumea...having to fall all the way back to Auckland isn't a plus (as you know in our game)....good idea with S boats.
quote:

Why not try it with me and see what happens? Perth is so boring this time of the year since the white sharks are off feeding elsewhere.

All kidding aside, build up the AF in Alice Springs/Cloncurry (like I have in our game) and pound into dust anything he sends down the road from Tenant Creek. Those Australian Beaufighters are useful here and B17s can be devastating on troops in the open. Nothing will venture very far south because he can not provide LRCAP. Be careful in New Caledonia. I beefed it up against JohnIII and he took it all. If you are concerned about this area, I would flood the ocean around there with S boats.

And where is my turn?


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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 9:18:58 PM   
rroberson

 

Posts: 1947
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

SoPac was a center of attention in the Real War, but isn't particularly important in AE (unless two players decide it's important and thus commit forces there).


completely agree even in my games as the Japanese...yet I feel compelled to defend it..probably too much history in my veins.

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RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 9:21:45 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9773
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
I hear you. There is a natural love of the Pacific given the real war. When it calls to us, it calls to us. There is no disregarding the sirene song of the open seas, flattops, strike sorties, and sun-kissed atolls. Good luck!

(in reply to rroberson)
Post #: 28
RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/10/2012 11:03:13 PM   
khyberbill


Posts: 1940
Joined: 9/11/2007
From: new milford, ct
Status: offline
quote:

LOL its coming its coming busy few days at work.


Rob, in the Mod we are playing, the Allies start at a very distinct disadvantage and even though you have already taken Geraldton, I am not even breaking into a sweat. I admit I have not lost three CV's. You need to think about taking what you have left and planning an ambush somewhere. Perhaps near Alaska if he comes with mini-KB. Or, if you feel it is the right thing to do, consider joining with the Brits in the Indian Ocean. Do you hold Coco Islands? If so, that draws the Japs like a bear to honey and they rarely bring enough. Having your CVs there also is nice if he decides that Ceylon has beaches he wants to bathe in. As an Allied player, I try to avoid CV battles until the July upgrades are finished, the planes upgraded and the fighter units expanded and only commit them once I know where KB is located. I am just not good enough to commit them earlier and have lost lots of CVs proving that.

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"Its a dog eat dog world Sammy and I am wearing Milkbone underwear" -Norm.

(in reply to rroberson)
Post #: 29
RE: Im getting crushed Rroberson v CV2 (No CV2 allowed) - 10/11/2012 1:48:45 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8570
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson

Here is a quick grab of Koumac.
[image][/image]



You have a 1522 Supplies Required number because you have 16,000+ men eating groceries. Additionally, you're building forts and airfield at the same time. Even with LaFoa populated I think you're going to struggle to pull enough supply from Noumea to do this work with that garrison. You need to land some supplies directly on Koumac, and not one xAKL load.

I'm with CR here; Koumac might not be your top priority right now.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/11/2012 1:49:01 PM >


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