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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!!

 
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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 4/27/2013 12:46:24 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

Yah, that work around needs to be stickied or this issue needs to be fixed. After seeing the results no one can defend this as WAD. My game imploded after my armament stockpile ran out.


Yours and all games past 11/42.

They all do the same thing some a few months sooner then others.

Historically Germany had a man power issue and not an armament issue as Flavuisx has stated in the past.

Its a hard fix for 2by3 and they are working on it.

as smaokendave said
quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

I'm assuming you talking about the rifle squads that start in January '43? Here is my active pool from turn 131 in my game versus Sillyflower. I'll try implementing your advice from the armaments thread - I'm stuggling to see the connection between the upgrades to the new '43 rifle squads and my large numbers of men in the manpower pool (300K+ and growing fast) - what am I missing?

This manpower pool problem has been bothering me for a while. I understand that I am supposed to be getting my butt kicked in late '43 and '44 as the axis but I'd prefer to be fighting with most of my men at the front and not on leave back in Berlin.





< Message edited by Pelton -- 4/27/2013 1:04:48 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 12:48:53 AM   
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TURN 156 - JUNE 8, 1944 - HUNGARIAN/ROMANIAN SURRENDER???

Can someone tell me if this is a bug? I understand Romania surrendering, but not Hungary. Soviet troops are miles from Hungary and they surrendered. WTF?




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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 12:50:54 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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A better picture of the front.




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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 12:57:02 AM   
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TURN 156 - JUNE 8, 1944 - NORTHERN FRONT


So the mud season is over and heavy(er) combat is back on. The mud barely slowed A-Game down it only prevented mass encirclements. Some updates on my end:

- I was able to field about 300k men from my reserve into the line bringing up strength to about 2.6m. This is kind of misleading as I have about 5 mech divisions waiting to withdraw. (The 2nd Panzer has been waiting since January 17 :-) so some of that strength is sitting on the West end of the map.

-I have disbanded about 5 of my armor divisions and 5 mech divisions because they refuse to upgrade. However, I discovered that if your old division gets destroyed it respawns as with the new squad.

-Hungary surrendered without its threshold having been met but my current game is so F-d anyway I just laugh at another catastrophe. Finland is still holding and going down like a champ.




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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 1:01:49 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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TURN 156 - JUNE 8, 1944 - SOUTHERN FRONT


In the South I had hoped to fall back to the Carpathians and reform the Hungarians into a decent line. I realize my game won't see 45 but I am still trying to give A-Game a fight and learn more about late game WITE. With Hungary gone sooner than expected I'll be lucky to see another mud turn. Sigh! Well lets just see what we can do.

Overall the average rifle division has rebounded to 4-5CV strength and I started withdrawing 2 hexes a turn to take some of the steam out of A-Game's drive. I can probably put up a decent fight in Poland when the front shrinks.




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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 1:08:52 AM   
Manstein63


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That sucks! Hungary surrendering like that, have you tried to repeat the turn to see if it happens again I'm sure your opponent would understand
Manstein63

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 1:41:39 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

That sucks! Hungary surrendering like that, have you tried to repeat the turn to see if it happens again I'm sure your opponent would understand
Manstein63


No, TBH I'm hoping for an expedient end to this game as possible. I don't want it to look like I'm quitting but I want it over soon. I've just dealt with too many weird anomalies. I'll post this in bug forum to see if it is something I missed.

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 1:46:43 AM   
smokindave34


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Hungary should NOT have surrendered - something is not right here!

Sillyflower and Sean are on Hungary/Rumania doorstep in my game - hopefully I won't get the same nasty surprise.

< Message edited by smokindave34 -- 5/5/2013 1:47:49 AM >

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 1:51:09 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Hungary should NOT have surrendered - something is not right here!

Sillyflower and Sean are on Hungary/Rumania doorstep in my game - hopefully I won't get the same nasty surprise.



I posted in the tech thread. If you want my save and PW to check it out I'll send you my last 2 turns and you can see for yourself. Just PM me. Yah it's weird!

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 4:13:47 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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NVM. I forgot Arad is in Romania...just an unintended consequence I guess. Gulp.

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 11:54:04 AM   
smokindave34


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Thanks DV - I didn't realise a town/city in Rumania could influence a Hungarian surrender. I'd better garisson at once.

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 7:12:30 PM   
rmonical

 

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quote:

I've just dealt with too many weird anomalies.


DV - would you please post some information about production, pools and on map units:
-- how many 75 MM AT Guns have been produced.
-- how about panzershrecks? Someone suggested there may be a problem with these?
-- how many Panzer IIIns are still in the pool? Did they ever get deployed?
-- how many StuH42s, Sturmpanzer IV, StuIG33B are still in the pool verses in the game?

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/5/2013 8:18:03 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rmonical

quote:

I've just dealt with too many weird anomalies.


DV - would you please post some information about production, pools and on map units:
-- how many 75 MM AT Guns have been produced.
-- how about panzershrecks? Someone suggested there may be a problem with these?
-- how many Panzer IIIns are still in the pool? Did they ever get deployed?
-- how many StuH42s, Sturmpanzer IV, StuIG33B are still in the pool verses in the game?




75mm AT gun - 6200 produced. They are actively being replaced.
Panzerschrek- 13k Still being fielded
Pz IIIN- Yes they were deployed but are now extinct. 0 left in pool
STUH42- This one is weird. 500 in pool and growing. Some of the new stug brigade (3 total) use them but that just came about.

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/6/2013 2:17:19 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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T158

Not going to do a full update just the highlights.

-Finland surrendered. Let this be a lesson to everyone out there. Make sure you use those crappy 2k men SS units to garrison allied capitols. All 3 of my allies gave in the very first turn the minimum surrender conditions were met. A Russian soldier never put foot in either Hungary or Finland but both surrendered with plenty of fighting power left. The Finns were tying down appx 25 Corps and appx 10 arty divisions then Vyborg fell and poof!

-Im running West as fast as possible. Even after I gave up 4 hexes last turn he still smashed another 4 hexes into the rear and encircled 2 divisions while ZOC locking another 12 for next turn. At this rate I'm betting on a September battle of Berlin.

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/6/2013 2:31:00 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

T158

Not going to do a full update just the highlights.

-Finland surrendered. Let this be a lesson to everyone out there. Make sure you use those crappy 2k men SS units to garrison allied capitols. All 3 of my allies gave in the very first turn the minimum surrender conditions were met. A Russian soldier never put foot in either Hungary or Finland but both surrendered with plenty of fighting power left. The Finns were tying down appx 25 Corps and appx 10 arty divisions then Vyborg fell and poof!

-Im running West as fast as possible. Even after I gave up 4 hexes last turn he still smashed another 4 hexes into the rear and encircled 2 divisions while ZOC locking another 12 for next turn. At this rate I'm betting on a September battle of Berlin.


Hopefully the next round of games I do is more balanced with all the fixes it should be close now. Sorry the conversion bug distorted your game so much.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/6/2013 9:45:49 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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Its not that bad really. It's an awesome game that will take a while before a solid balance is hammered out. It's still the best East Front game available IMO.

A-Game offered to let me resign but I figured we would keep playing until an official patch comes out that settles the NM issue.

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RE: The Southern Front Breaks!!! - 5/6/2013 6:37:52 PM   
rmonical

 

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quote:

75mm AT gun - 6200 produced. They are actively being replaced.


Historically 2000+ were produced in 42, 8000+ in '43 and 11000+ in 44. It appears that casualties on this type run low.

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Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 1:13:53 AM   
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TURN 163 - JULY 26, 1944 - NORTHERN FRONT


So the fight continues. After my disaster 5 turns back where 1/4 of AGA/AGB was encircled and destroyed I have managed to catch my breath and bring some units up to strength. In the North I have actually managed to build a somewhat plausible defense line and keep units on refit. The Soviets will still smash any line I have to pieces but I am able to patch it up and keep fighting a withdrawal. I still doubt I will see 45 but its possible. If I can make it to next mud I might be able to survive 1 last Christmas in the Reichstag.

My armaments have caught up with my manpower a little bit. I'm down to 320k manpower and that's after I've disbanded a couple FBD's and some LW Corps. Last turn I had a lucky mud turn hit that brought only 2 Soviet attacks scoring 1 hold.




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RE: Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 1:20:48 AM   
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READ!! Smoking Dave!

I forgot to mention. I've been disbanding all my divisions that don't upgrade to keep the others healthier and it has made a decent impact. Its been about the only way to salvage this disaster and keep a decent game going. Despite the fact that I'm bummed about my game being bugged up I'm still going to fight like I own it and give A-Game his end game showdown.

The biggest drawback to my disbands is that the upgrade bug mainly only hit my motor squad containing divisions so I only have around 12 mech formations and most of these are smaller units with low morale. My GrossDeutschland and all my SS divisions didn't upgrade so that really screwed me hard, but as more mech units arrive they contain the new squad so I'm slowly regaining mobile firepower.

Here is the new 6th Army rebuilding on the Danube. Its a shattered army but is slowly receiving reinforcements and digging in. Since the fall of Romania recon has showed a reluctance of A-Game to pursue through Hungary and so my low morale regiments are holding the Danube against the (Red) Romanian turncoats.




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RE: Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 2:10:18 AM   
smokindave34


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How have you chosen the units that "don't upgrade"? I'm in March '44 and I'm slowly starting to see units turn from the '39 rifle squad to the '43 rifle squad. I'm drained on armaments but I'm getting 3 or 4 divisions per turn to upgrade. I expect to see better results once the mud hits in April. Have you just picked out units with the old rifle squads and disbanded them? I appreciate any help you can give me although the odds are slim that I'll make it to '45.

It really is a shame this issue with the rifle squads. As I look at my units that have the '43 rifle squad they have an average of about a 5 CV where my units without are typically 1 or 2 CV. Without that problem I still expect that I would lose my game but there would certainly be more drama in trying to hold onto Berlin in the winter of '45.

Another lesson learned for late game Axis players. When a Soviet units gets adjacent to Bulgaria or Yugoslavia they become "no entry" hexes. I had a panzer division trying to escape from Rumania after its surrender so I sent in another from Yugoslavia and now that Yugoslavia flipped they are both toast! In the future I'll be pulling every German unit out of Rumania as soon as the Reds get close.

By the way - thanks for continuing on in your game DV, although I'm sure it's frustrating it has helped expose late game issues that have now been resolved and gives other axis players some tips on how to stop the Red steam roller (or at least slow it down!). Thanks again!



< Message edited by smokindave34 -- 5/12/2013 2:15:09 AM >

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RE: Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 2:18:41 AM   
smokindave34


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Here is my situation - in the north. March 1944




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RE: Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 2:19:50 AM   
smokindave34


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And the south...




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RE: Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 2:24:01 AM   
smokindave34


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One other thing I thought of from my last game that may help you. When I was backed up and cornered near Berlin I had so many non combat units (HQ, security div, airbases) that as my infantry/panzer divisions retreated they had nowhere to retreat to and they surrendered. I had something like 16 divisions surrender in one turn because they had nowhere to go. Make sure you disband unnecessary units as you get close to Berlin - it may help you hold out a few more turns.

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RE: Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 2:43:41 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

How have you chosen the units that "don't upgrade"? I'm in March '44 and I'm slowly starting to see units turn from the '39 rifle squad to the '43 rifle squad. I'm drained on armaments but I'm getting 3 or 4 divisions per turn to upgrade. I expect to see better results once the mud hits in April. Have you just picked out units with the old rifle squads and disbanded them? I appreciate any help you can give me although the odds are slim that I'll make it to '45.




Well its a bit different for me. 95% or more of my rifle units upgraded in a decent fashion. My problem was my motorized units. None of them upgraded. The only units I have that contain 43-45 motor squads are the divisions that arrived in 44. So my 99 morale Gross Deutschland division is a roadbump along with all my SS divisions. They would accumulate support gear and tanks but without rifle squads they would get 3-5 CV and really just be a drain. So by disbanding them my industry focuses only on building infantry gear. Once the panzer brigades start arriving I'll get some of my mobility back

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RE: Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 2:47:13 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Another lesson learned for late game Axis players. When a Soviet units gets adjacent to Bulgaria or Yugoslavia they become "no entry" hexes. I had a panzer division trying to escape from Rumania after its surrender so I sent in another from Yugoslavia and now that Yugoslavia flipped they are both toast! In the future I'll be pulling every German unit out of Rumania as soon as the Reds get close.



I think I am going to use the 2k man SS Brigades to garrison allied capitols along with some security regiments. This should increase the odds of your allies holding out longer than normal according to the manual. Had I still had my Hungarians right now I still think 45 would be doable...likewise the Finns.

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RE: Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 12:29:20 PM   
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TURN 164 - AUGUST 4, 1944


Any previously optimistic calculations about seeing 45 have been nullified. This damage was completed in 1 turn. With week long turns one cannot parry this without running at least 6-8 hexes.




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RE: Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 1:45:31 PM   
smokindave34


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Ouch - not a good day back at the Wolf's Lair. I don't see any prospects of rescuing 9th army and 2nd army may get the same treatment next turn. At this point even a solid fort line (like you have) is little defense - the rifle corps break it open and the mobile units rush right through ('41 in reverse). I was hoping to see you pull off a "miracle on the Vistual" but it doesn't seem to be.....

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RE: Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 6:58:26 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Ouch - not a good day back at the Wolf's Lair. I don't see any prospects of rescuing 9th army and 2nd army may get the same treatment next turn. At this point even a solid fort line (like you have) is little defense - the rifle corps break it open and the mobile units rush right through ('41 in reverse). I was hoping to see you pull off a "miracle on the Vistual" but it doesn't seem to be.....


No probably not. What makes his accomplishment so amazing is that the Screenshot before the trap was before my moves. I actually backed up a couple hexes forcing him to cross a contested river (Bug) before any deliberate attacks were made. So he crossed an enemy river, blew my line to pieces then exploited 5-6 hexes into rear positions. Luckily next turn 14 divisions become unfrozen from AGA/B's disaster that are full strength. They are low 50 morale but full strength. This should help rebuild a front...long enough for him to trap another army. Rinse ..Repeat.

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RE: Fight (Flight??) to the Vistula - 5/12/2013 7:31:31 PM   
morvael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran


quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

How have you chosen the units that "don't upgrade"? I'm in March '44 and I'm slowly starting to see units turn from the '39 rifle squad to the '43 rifle squad. I'm drained on armaments but I'm getting 3 or 4 divisions per turn to upgrade. I expect to see better results once the mud hits in April. Have you just picked out units with the old rifle squads and disbanded them? I appreciate any help you can give me although the odds are slim that I'll make it to '45.




Well its a bit different for me. 95% or more of my rifle units upgraded in a decent fashion. My problem was my motorized units. None of them upgraded. The only units I have that contain 43-45 motor squads are the divisions that arrived in 44. So my 99 morale Gross Deutschland division is a roadbump along with all my SS divisions. They would accumulate support gear and tanks but without rifle squads they would get 3-5 CV and really just be a drain. So by disbanding them my industry focuses only on building infantry gear. Once the panzer brigades start arriving I'll get some of my mobility back


You probably started the game ,as I did with cpt flam - on a version when there was no upgrade path for the panzergrenadier squads. They added it in a later patch (to generic data), but before 1.7.07, so the upgrade path is not fixed in on-going games by the procedure included with 1.7.07. Therefore there will be problems with GD getting their PzGen boys, unless you fix it in the save on your own, as I did for our game with cpt flam.

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A seriously bad day! - 5/14/2013 12:26:10 AM   
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TURN 166 - AUGUST 17, 1944

I can't remember if this is the 4th total catastrophe in as many months or the 5th. I lost count.




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