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RE: Axis on the Retreat!!

 
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RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/14/2013 2:57:36 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

TURN 137 - JANUARY 27, 1944 - AGA Part 1


I'm willing to bet that not too many players have seen this before? After last turn I freed the encircled units in such a manner that it allowed my isolated units to isolate 3 Tank/Mech Corps. I used the Rumanians to complete the isolation (I knew there was no hope in hell of it holding, it was just to injure those units the following turn). When the Russians broke the encirclement it pushed the Hungarians and Rumanians together. Needless to say they were re-isolated the following turn..then freed again.




How is the armament and manpower pools doing?

I have 307,000 as of January 1st 1944




< Message edited by Pelton -- 4/14/2013 2:59:48 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Disgruntled Veteran)
Post #: 121
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/14/2013 3:03:07 PM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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TURN 137 - JANUARY 27, 1944 - AGA PART 2


Units freed for the moment. Right now there is 2 Rumanian/ 1 Hungarian/ 1 German unit that's trying to get out. If I can get the Hungarian and German unit out I would feel a lot better. Sadly, The Hungarian infantry is in better shape than their German counterparts right now. I've happily absorbed many of the Hungarian divisions into German OOB's.




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Post #: 122
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/14/2013 3:06:30 PM   
Disgruntled Veteran


Posts: 525
Joined: 2/19/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

TURN 137 - JANUARY 27, 1944 - AGA Part 1


I'm willing to bet that not too many players have seen this before? After last turn I freed the encircled units in such a manner that it allowed my isolated units to isolate 3 Tank/Mech Corps. I used the Rumanians to complete the isolation (I knew there was no hope in hell of it holding, it was just to injure those units the following turn). When the Russians broke the encirclement it pushed the Hungarians and Rumanians together. Needless to say they were re-isolated the following turn..then freed again.




How is the armament and manpower pools doing?

I have 307,000 as of January 1st 1944





Better, but not satisfactory. I am still hovering around 320k manpower but the pool is slowly going down every turn. However, here is some better indicators.

-I'm fielding around 100k men to the front every turn versus the 60k men in 43. (Good)

-I'm fielding appx 3k rifle squads a turn to the front vs 1200-1500 in 43. (Good)

-I'm only fielding 30 (yes thirty) motorized rifle squads to the front per turn. This is absoltely destroying my Mech divisions right now (extremely bad)

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Post #: 123
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/14/2013 3:11:19 PM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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Here is a better illustration Pelton. Can anyone explain why I am building almost 0 Motorized Rifle Squads? My mech forces are in abysmal shape because of this as my tank strength stays at 3500+ every turn. Average Tank CV is between 4-7 average elite CV is about 8-11.




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Post #: 124
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/14/2013 3:14:21 PM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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Another Illustration:






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Post #: 125
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/14/2013 4:34:13 PM   
Blubel

 

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I would try to take 1-3 mech divisions out of the line and only refit them. Also you might want to take more infantry divisions off refit. I would guess that the game produces stuff required for refiting units in some order, which in your case could lead to few mot. rifle squads.
Also, these cavalry squads are extremly expansive. I would take cav units off refit and attack Soviet cavalry formations whenever possible. (This, of course, only makes sense if your oppononet is not hording huge amounts off armament points, which he most likely is...)

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Post #: 126
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/14/2013 6:14:29 PM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blubel

I would try to take 1-3 mech divisions out of the line and only refit them. Also you might want to take more infantry divisions off refit. I would guess that the game produces stuff required for refiting units in some order, which in your case could lead to few mot. rifle squads.
Also, these cavalry squads are extremly expansive. I would take cav units off refit and attack Soviet cavalry formations whenever possible. (This, of course, only makes sense if your oppononet is not hording huge amounts off armament points, which he most likely is...)



Good points!

I never thought about putting only mech units on refit. I have however put mech units on refit while behind the front to no avail, but if the engine is producing rifle squads first then runs out of armaments that may very well be why its running so low. Thanks for the tip..I'll let the infantry bleed a turn so the mech heals and see how it works. I'll let you know.


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Post #: 127
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/14/2013 7:48:58 PM   
gingerbread


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Only the type of which you got 15 into your units is still in production.

Unfortunately, it is expensive to upgrade, but this could actually be what is consuming your ARM. The only way to check is to see how many squads of each type you have in two turns and then do the arithmetic's, taking built numbers into account.

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Post #: 128
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/14/2013 7:50:05 PM   
gingerbread


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Edit: DP

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Post #: 129
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/15/2013 12:53:56 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

Another Illustration:







I would report this, because that simply looks wrong, in the past the mech units were always full even late war.

Something is wrong with the GHC replasement system, but I can't put my finger on it yet.

It is not produsing things it should and producing things it should not, why all the cycle squads and no MoT squads?

The fighting is heavy and your getting ground down, its the same issue of The Wolf and The Bear.

It is killing you every time you counter attack, you can win by 5 to 1 it simply doesn't matter because SHC will never have an issue with armaments or manpower. So even if they attack 50 times and lose every time GHC is still getting ground down way way to fast.

The issue to me is the AI is produsing sh*t units when you need MoT squads, 458 pioneers why? After 42 they are completely usless.

The AI production is meesed up I would say. I still have a 0-0 CV slav unit 26 turns later after I reported the bug. The slavs have manpower and armaments in pool but refuses to make rifle squads.

You have close to 20 divisions that need MoT squads and your making 30 a turn thats a joke.

You have 5 Cav units and AI is making 77 squads?

That is messed up? All I can say is WTH?

< Message edited by Pelton -- 4/15/2013 1:13:18 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

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Post #: 130
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/15/2013 1:13:06 AM   
Pelton

 

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This is my Jan 1st 44 list, everything lags behind a turn so this is really 43 production, but I am making 51 MoT squads before 44 increases.

I also find it odd your not making any sub machine gun squads? These things are uber powerfull ( way over powered).

WTH is up with all the poineers also?

Something looks wrong to me, but what I have no idea.

Also I am only adding 14403 men to manpower pool.

I have all Inf/Mot/Mech/Panzer/MT/Cav/HQ's set to 93% toe. All support units are at 85% toe. I have refit on every single unit other then frozen units. FZ's at 71% and Sec at 95%

I have messed around with these numbers for 2 yrs and 20+ games and these setting for some unknown reason seem to be working the best.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 4/15/2013 1:27:53 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 131
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/15/2013 1:29:12 AM   
Pelton

 

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Here is another August 43 game list. Interesting thing in this game I have 25k men in pool and 45k armaments.

The setting are all the same as far as toe goes.

169 MoT squads and 11 submachine gun.

The rifle squads are different in all 3 games. I am sure there is a reason.

I have messed around with the toe% and that does some how determine what and how much is built.

I would lower your Infantry toe to 89% and put panzer units all at 100%

Turning refit on/off has never worked for me or pulling back units. It has no effect on what is built.

It seems to be if you want more of something up the % and less lower %.

Turn poineer % to 71 or lower mybee that drop that production an drop infantry to 89 and put paz at 100%






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 4/15/2013 1:37:51 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 132
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 2:25:46 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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Just got my turn back from A-Game. Don't have time for a full update but switching refit settings had no positive effect on motor squad production. By turning all infantry off refit and putting all mech on I actually produced less than half the normal rifle squads and still only produced about 25 motor squads. Less men fielded and the manpower reserve grows. Needless to say I'm going to lower TOE's of infantry like Pelton suggested and see if that helps. I've also dropped TOE's on most SU's. Most of the artillery is disbanded but I dropped flak from 100 to 80 TOE. Rockets are all at 50 and pioneers will likely drop to 80 also. On my next update I'll post how that goes.

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Post #: 133
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 9:42:58 AM   
Flaviusx


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It's possible there is some sort of hidden cap here on motorized squads for the Germans. On demand production in this game has its quirks...for the Sovs it is rocket artillery.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

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Post #: 134
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 10:47:57 AM   
morvael


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Exactly, with 200K+ arms and 1.5M men in the pool, the "on demand" production fails to produce guns for my lone artillery division... 5 or 6 weeks on refit and they still have just 60% of required guns.

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Post #: 135
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 10:52:55 AM   
Michael T


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It would be logical to conclude that there are limits on each type of weapon/squad. In reality only so many 122mmm Guns can be pumped out each week. Same for Motorized Truppen.

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'Deus le Volt!'
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Post #: 136
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 11:31:25 AM   
gingerbread


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Did you check upgrades?

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Post #: 137
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 12:13:47 PM   
Walloc

 

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Another thing that might be interresting to try. For 1 turn only put every thing else(than mech units) on max 50% ToE. Assuming every thing else, which it prolly isnt the case, but a good deal would be over 50% ToE. You can examine this first, ofc. In theory if every thing is over 50% ToE and u set the ToE to max 50% they shouldnt request any thing i guess. Then see what the production will be that turn. U could possibly if its a pbem game ask ur opponent ot do a alternate turn apart from the regular turn to test it. For it to work it will ofc require that most other things are 50%+ ToE else they will still request stuff at max 50% ToE, semi invalidating the test.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 4/17/2013 12:14:54 PM >

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RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 1:32:45 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

It's possible there is some sort of hidden cap here on motorized squads for the Germans. On demand production in this game has its quirks...for the Sovs it is rocket artillery.



Not sure what that has to do with what is going on?

The fact is in this case and in both my games I posted, GHC is very very short of MoT rifle units ( MRU).

In the 2 games that are in 1944 MRU production dropped from 170 per turn. range to 30-50 per turn.

In my 44 game on turn 132 production was 111 and turn 134 51. Why is GHC MRU production tanking in 1944?

Its not because of need or lack of armaments.

I am guessing by looking at data and when GHC armament production rams up in 44 there is some kind of bug turning GHC MoT rifle squad production down to next to nothing.

When I go in the field to solve a vibration issue my first question is whats changed?

In this case we can all see a big change in production from Dec 43 to Jan 44. Why the change?

Both players have not changed anything. My model has been the same all 43, but yet my production has magicly 1/2 in a turn. Why?

Why the change and what has changed?


< Message edited by Pelton -- 4/17/2013 1:34:32 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 139
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 1:40:30 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Another thing that might be interresting to try. For 1 turn only put every thing else(than mech units) on max 50% ToE. Assuming every thing else, which it prolly isnt the case, but a good deal would be over 50% ToE. You can examine this first, ofc. In theory if every thing is over 50% ToE and u set the ToE to max 50% they shouldnt request any thing i guess. Then see what the production will be that turn. U could possibly if its a pbem game ask ur opponent ot do a alternate turn apart from the regular turn to test it. For it to work it will ofc require that most other things are 50%+ ToE else they will still request stuff at max 50% ToE, semi invalidating the test.

Kind regards,

Rasmus


The issue is, why is MoT production in 1943 to 44 magicly dropping in 1/2?

If the setting are x in 1943 and x in 1944 and there is a need (DoH), armaments (there is) ect. In other words nothing has changed from 12/43 to 1/44 but MoT rifle squad production magicly drops in 1/2 or more.

What has changed? Nothing the players have done has changed.

What esle could cause a drop in production?

There simply is something wrong with the game late war. We now have 1/2 dozen games in 43+. the manpower pools in all are growing even in the games that have armaments and manpower in the pools.

All the games from 1941 to June 43 do not have issues with manpower/armaments/replasements. The settings are the same but yet the pools grow starting in June and in atleast 2 game Dec 43 to Jan 44 production of MoT squads drops off.

All the players are not changing anything. Chances are we are all playing a little different, but yet the same issue starts snowballing in June 43. Disspite manpower/armaments and need the manpower pool grows.

If the players are not the issue,

What esle could it be?

Whats changing?

< Message edited by Pelton -- 4/17/2013 1:47:57 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 140
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 4:57:33 PM   
gingerbread


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The change is that two types of squads stop producing 1/44.

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Post #: 141
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 6:42:21 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

The change is that two types of squads stop producing 1/44.


What squads stop?

What are they replaced with?

Why do things start snowballing in June 43?

If they are replaced with nothing should all GHC panzer/MoT and Mech units be disbanded?


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 142
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 8:55:37 PM   
gingerbread


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Interesting to know the diff between turns on how many of the currently produced type of squad there are in the units.




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Post #: 143
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/17/2013 11:29:53 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

Interesting to know the diff between turns on how many of the currently produced type of squad there are in the units.





So then the question would be:

Why is prodution 1/2 of what it was?

Still the same issue. Germany desided to 1/2 Mot production because its 44? Sure the squads changed but its causing Panzer/Mech divisions CV to crash for no reason.

Which has no effect on why manpower and armament pools keep growing.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 144
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/18/2013 2:29:23 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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Yah there are 3 types of motor squads for different years but that doesn't explain the main issue. If there was an abundance of 1 type but shortage of another that would help identify the issue. However, there is simply a paltry sum being produced, whereas in some of my older saves from 41 I was producing 100-300 squads a turn. There is definitely something wrong here..either a cap based on the year or some formula that is bugged up due to a multitude of variables. I'll keep checking and I know A-Game will gladly help me do a test. Thanks for the input.

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Post #: 145
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/19/2013 10:27:01 AM   
gingerbread


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If the squads are upgraded in situ, it will not listed in the built/distributed report.

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Post #: 146
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/20/2013 1:17:20 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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Ok so first an update on my motorized problem. I ran two saves with A-Game: One my real turn and another my test where I set all TOE's to 50 except mot/arm to 100 and placed them on refit. My factories produced 180 motorized squads which was decent but not awe inspiring. It also fielded around 60k men instead of the usual 90-100k. So its definitely not something I'm going to seriously consider until possibly a mud turn. I will probably disband a few of the weaker, low morale mech units to keep them from sucking up motor squads...perhaps I will just pull them off the line and use them as diggers. I don't know.

Now for an AAR Update. The Finns are kicking some ass and taking names. With 70k men and 110k armaments remaining it appears playing Conservative with them mid game is paying off. Check out this battle!!




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RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/20/2013 1:21:00 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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And another!




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RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/20/2013 1:25:18 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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TURN 140 - FEBRUARY 17, 1944 - NORTHERN HALF


Picture is self explanatory. I'm slowly being driven back...morale and TOE's are dropping because my reserve men cannot be fielded. I wish I knew the magic formula for armaments. I'll keep disbanding SU's and putting everything on refit and hope for the best. At this point I don't care what kind of squads the AI builds as long as it builds them!




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Post #: 149
RE: Axis on the Retreat!! - 4/20/2013 1:30:06 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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TURN 140 - FEBRUARY 17, 1944 - SOUTHERN HALF


I gave up the idea of fighting for the Crimea. I didn't feel A-Game would send much down there and I'm probably right. Near Krivoi Rog I'm trying to build a reserve line but cannot spare even my skeleton units to help build it. We've hired Nazi witch doctors to bring about a sudden thaw and stop operations. So far they are not performing.




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