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RE: Death of the Caucasus Front

 
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RE: Death of the Caucasus Front - 2/12/2013 1:22:08 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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Turn 90 - March 4, 1943


Here is the final culmination of the Southern Drive. The lengthening flank, the onset of mud, and the growing attack further North have convinced me tis time to end this drive. I did manage to pocket 8 divisions and a tank brigade before it ended but Grozny will not likely fall. The Elite I Corps is being railed out to bolster AGC.




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RE: Death of the Caucasus Front - 2/17/2013 6:31:38 PM   
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T94 - April 5, 1943


Mud strikes most of the front for a much needed rest. Now I will pull as many units off the line as possible to get refit with replacements. I have about 130k men in reserve and I imagine these will be quickly absorbed.

In the Center Front shown here my Elite I Corps and II SS Panzer Corps smashed up an offensive and isolated 2 Rifle Corps but A-game broke the pocket. Hard to keep pocket sealed when he can muster 250k men in a single battle.




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RE: Death of the Caucasus Front - 2/17/2013 6:37:01 PM   
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I'm also seriously thinking of surrendering a lot of space in the Center Front. This will shorten the front line by about 20 hexes and allow me to both:

A.) Incorporate the Hungarians into my front line OOB (behind the Don of course)

B.) Allow greater concentration of strength to counter A-Game's blows

C.) Allow me to pull units off the line to refit.

Right now I can't pull units off without ensuring A-Game will attack. If I do withdraw I will wait until early June as to keep the rail lines wrecked as long as possible. If I don't withdraw I fear he will just hammer the road to Smolensk and I will be unable to counter.




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RE: Death of the Caucasus Front - 2/17/2013 7:18:48 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

I'm also seriously thinking of surrendering a lot of space in the Center Front. This will shorten the front line by about 20 hexes and allow me to both:

A.) Incorporate the Hungarians into my front line OOB (behind the Don of course)

B.) Allow greater concentration of strength to counter A-Game's blows

C.) Allow me to pull units off the line to refit.

Right now I can't pull units off without ensuring A-Game will attack. If I do withdraw I will wait until early June as to keep the rail lines wrecked as long as possible. If I don't withdraw I fear he will just hammer the road to Smolensk and I will be unable to counter.




I would start with drawing 1 or 2 hexes per turn. You could pull out a few units to start digging and mybee send a panzer Corp to help out in center for a few months. There is a minor river line from Stalino north to Oka, but I would not let SHC get to it until the first summer turn. The mud clear mud turns make it about impossible to clear out a hex.

Thats always the question to give some ground to shorten lines or stand and fight.


< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/17/2013 7:20:05 PM >


_____________________________

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8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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RE: Death of the Caucasus Front - 2/17/2013 10:44:36 PM   
morvael


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Due to map limits the front also shortens when you capture Astrakhan and go further north :-) but without clearing the troops in the Caucasus first it's hard to do it.

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RE: Death of the Caucasus Front - 2/18/2013 12:11:15 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Due to map limits the front also shortens when you capture Astrakhan and go further north :-) but without clearing the troops in the Caucasus first it's hard to do it.



Its possible but it makes for an incredibly long Front until you succeed. I opted not taking the risk of overextending myself before mud hit. In all honesty I was very surprised by my successes. I know when I wiped out a dozen divisions in the mountains it was unexpected for A-game and I.

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RE: Death of the Caucasus Front - 2/23/2013 12:05:31 AM   
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T99 - May 6, 1943


Not too much going on right now. I'm noticing more and more Corps from A-Game but his overall Front line manpower numbers are not terribly high. He is at the point where he can punch through almost any spot in the line where he concentrates but he is either unable or unwilling to exploit. He's basically testing the waters. Probably a smart idea on his part. Last turn he probed the long Center Salient (probably thinking it was hollow) and I isolated 2 rifle divisions. Otherwise I'm kind of disappointed at the lack of mud this spring. Its May and we have some clear no freeze in the South with snowy level 9 freeze in the North. Random weather for sure.





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RE: Death of the Caucasus Front - 2/23/2013 12:14:18 AM   
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T99 - May 6,1943


This is the seem between 4th Army and 2nd Army. I'm not sure if A-game is either reluctant to attack it with some serious firepower or he doesn't have he strength to do so. This is his first major assault in the area. The Cavalry are just taking up the empty hexes to undoubtedly prepare for another major strike. Notice the SS are holding much of the line to get forts built up so infantry can man it alone.






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A-Game on the attack - 2/23/2013 12:15:57 AM   
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Some numbers before Summer.




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RE: A-Game on the attack - 2/23/2013 1:26:34 AM   
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T99 (After German Moves) - May 6, 1943

Here is the turn after my moves. I abandoned Saratov and have began the withdraw to the fortified Summer Positions. I also moved the SS Corps to backstop the shoulder of my large salient.




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RE: A-Game on the attack - 2/26/2013 11:00:24 PM   
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TURN 103 - JUNE 3, 1943 (AFTER GERMAN MOVES)


So it takes until June 3 till we receive our first mud in the North zone. Kind of relieved to be honest. Its now almost fully in A-game's hands. The dreaded grinding trench warfare has overtaken the front. If you look at the seem where there is some recently converted ZOC's you'll see the sillyness of trying to fight Soviet Corps this game. I think A-game was expecting mud so he left 2 Guards Tank Corps exposed with little flank support right in the bend of the Salient. It was a lvl 9 frozen snow and I had 15 mech divisions within fighting distance..so I unleashed everything I had. I isolated the 2 Corps and created 2 belts of defenses around it with the best German divisions in the game. Every division had an armored battalion and 2 other SU's directly attached. He defeated all of them and committed at least 100k men in nearly a dozen battles in a row. Some of them had 300k. Not bad for a 10 mile front. Too bad I cannot create Super Corps and field 1 million men in a ten mile front!! Why not 4 million? ...Trying not to be gripey but it seems silly that the Reds can commit more men on a ten mile front as was involved in many major offensives historically. I wouldn't have launched that counter attack had I known that....but this is my first real game so tough lesson learned.

To the East my withdraw was overran by multiple Corps and a lone division was isolated in Tambov. Not too huge a loss all things considered. The bulk of the withdraw goes according to plan and the mud assures that no more divisions will get isolated..hate to leave the poor bastards there but any attempt to relieve the garrison would have left too many forces exposed. When the division respawns I'm sure they will get assigned to construction duty for the remainder of the game.







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RE: A-Game on the attack - 2/26/2013 11:06:43 PM   
smokindave34


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I'd be careful about giving up ground too fast. Your battling the clock from here on out and the farther he is from Berlin the better your chances of winning. You want to hold a line east of the Dnepr river past June '44 if possible and don't count on the major river being much of an obstacle to A-game in 1944.

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RE: A-Game on the attack - 2/27/2013 12:32:13 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

I'd be careful about giving up ground too fast. Your battling the clock from here on out and the farther he is from Berlin the better your chances of winning. You want to hold a line east of the Dnepr river past June '44 if possible and don't count on the major river being much of an obstacle to A-game in 1944.


That's the idea. I had to give up the salient stretching out to Saratov and Tambov though. Without that shortening of the lines he would have ripped me to pieces. The way I consider it I was lucky to deny him those manpower centers for nearly a year...same with the Caucasus (which is also being surrendered a bit at a time).

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RE: A-Game on the attack - 2/27/2013 1:30:14 AM   
Pelton

 

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I think is more important to conserve manpower/morale as long as possible. Land is a buffer you can trade for time/manpower/morale.

If your front is short your stronger and therefor its harder to crack the line. Winning as GHC is basicly impossible in most cases, but a draw is likely and in this case 75% more then likely. You do have a shot at a minor win, but once the lines crack SHC can run west very quickly as tarhunnas and smokendave know first hand.

Tarhunass was much farther east and barely hung on for a draw.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2792361


Thing have changed for sure, but still very hard to hang on once rifle squads get below 16k.

I think the key again is the snow ball effect that happens once GHC starts losing troops to pockets. The logistics system really sucks, once you throw in surrendered units taking 70% or more of replasements front line units get NOTHING and the front simply disappears by design.

I think your better off disbanding divisions once the front gets really short late game as another player has shown in his game.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/27/2013 1:35:30 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

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RE: A-Game on the attack - 3/2/2013 4:37:01 PM   
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TURN 105 - 6/17/1943


Well, a grand total of 2 mud turns from January till the end of mud season in mid June. While that's a bummer I've been blessed with good news across the front.

-9.Army's trapped division was busted out of Tambov by a daring rescue from 2. Panzer Army. I feared it may leave me very vulnerable, but either A-game is unable or unwilling to push too aggressively.

-In the North I scored 6 powerful holds against overwhelming odds. 3 Luftwaffe divisions in the rough held up 2 powerful attacks in a row. So while I was griping about masses of Soviet men on a small front, my front line troops were gritting their teeth and fighting to the death.

-Finally, A-Game's OOB dropped by about 100k men from last turn. The holds he gets are bleeding him out. Plus, I guess all those manpower centers lost really hurt him. Having never played the Soviets I really don't know but this was an encouraging turn nonetheless.




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RE: A-Game on the attack - 3/8/2013 10:26:11 PM   
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TURN 109 - JULY 15, 1943 - NORTHERN FRONT


Here in the North the picture pretty much sums it up. Both sides remain stagnant and look at each other.




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RE: A-Game on the attack - 3/8/2013 10:32:19 PM   
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TURN 109 - JULY 15, 1943 - VIAZMA AREA


Here the Front has remained fairly steady giving a few hexes per turn. As long as my reinforcements and replacements can hold out like they have been I think I could hold him back for quite some time. Its still early in the Summer though, so its a toss up right now.




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RE: A-Game on the attack - 3/8/2013 10:37:39 PM   
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TURN 109 - JULY 15, 1943 - DON/DONETZ FRONT


Here we see the textbook backhand blow against an aggressive over extension. In the last few turns I pulled away from the Don bend and fell back to shorten my lines and create reserves. A-Game sent a host of tank Corps to stay right on my heels and quickly convert ZOC's. Well he left a lot of his infantry behind and the 6th army and 1st Panzer Army made him pay. That's 3 Tank Corps and a rifle division that won't be missed by me. :)




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Axis on the Defense!! - 3/12/2013 11:52:29 PM   
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AUGUST 26, 1943 - CAUCASUS/KUBAN FRONT


Here is the remains of the Caucasus effort. While I had hoped to delay him longer I had simply stripped the area of too much and nearly lost the entire force. Half a dozen Tank Corps slipped behind the front and actually encircled my mech reserves a few turns back. While I was easily able to break the pocket it proved the defense of Volshinek not plausible.




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RE: Axis on the Defense!! - 3/12/2013 11:58:55 PM   
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AUGUST 26 1943 - SOUTHERN FRONT


I initially considered the South to be my strongest front, but nothing is safe from monster Guards Corps and massed artillery. The entire 1st Panzer Army is burned out and around 50-60% TOE. I'm going to have to retreat in the next turn or two. I was really hoping to make it to mud.




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RE: Axis on the Defense!! - 3/13/2013 12:15:19 AM   
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AUGUST 26, 1943 - CENTER FRONT


Here is where the German Heer is taking a beating. I've lost 4k guns in 3 turns and about 190k armaments. Kind of in a predicament. I really need to shorten the line to free up troops but I'm really hoping to ride out the Blizzard to the East of the Dnepr. A-Game is putting the bulk of his forces on the shortest route to Berlin. Mud can't come soon enough.

And what I wouldn't do for more AP points!

Current strength:
3.9m (3.64)
38k guns
3900 tanks
2800 planes

7.8 (7.49)
109k guns
9500 tanks
17500 planes






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RE: Axis on the Defense!! - 3/17/2013 4:19:54 PM   
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So a question for some of you out there. Last night I was struggling to get this turn done to keep up our tempo. I sent in a turn where I withdrew my Southern line....except in my hurry I forgot to move 2 of my divisions...which are now of course isolated.

Would it be indecent to ask A-Game to redo the turn? I have a save right before I submitted. I mean small errors are one thing but this really sucks. I'm asking here as to not put him on the spot. Would you ask someone this?




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RE: Axis on the Defense!! - 3/17/2013 7:22:27 PM   
carlkay58

 

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I would accept it and put it down as lost orders. Mistakes happen in games and real life - so you have to live with it! Next time be more careful and thorough! At least, that is my opinion.

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RE: Axis on the Defense!! - 3/17/2013 9:24:23 PM   
smokindave34


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I would ask to re-play the turn. I've almost done this same thing myself a few times and I would certainly ask for a re-do. Two divisions lost is a big deal at this point for the axis.

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RE: Axis on the Defense!! - 3/17/2013 10:47:03 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

I would ask to re-play the turn. I've almost done this same thing myself a few times and I would certainly ask for a re-do. Two divisions lost is a big deal at this point for the axis.


I did. A-Game quickly agreed.

Although I would surely mention this at the end of the game I am going to say it now.. A-Game has been an outstanding opponent that anyone would be glad to play against. I don't know if we'll do a flip game or not when this is over but I could not recommend a better sportsman than A-Game! Always prompt and always agreeable.

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RE: Axis on the Defense!! - 3/23/2013 3:02:35 PM   
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TURN 120 - SEPTEMBER 30, 1943


Altogether the Summer of 43 has been a sobering experience of Soviet power resurgent. I have had the Wehrmacht beaten to a pulp and violently shoved out of its defensive positions. Front Line commander's are desperate for reinforcements and rain can't come soon enough. The "Random" weather has been randomly dry except for 41. Net Losses since since July 1:

Men: Appx 300k
Manpower Reserve: Appx 200k
Guns: 0
Tanks: 200
Armaments: 520k

As you can see my guns and tanks haven't really dropped but my armament points have plummeted. I am hoping for a decent mud season to rebuild stocks and prepare a defense in depth. This is probably the hardest lesson I've learned from this game...that of having multiple rows of fall back lines to absorb losses. Once he unhinged one part of the line he has battered me to pieces. If we get a good mud season, I should be able to recover.

This is AGN's right flank.





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RE: Axis on the Defense!! - 3/23/2013 3:09:05 PM   
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TURN 120 - SEPTEMBER 30, 1943 - AGC


I've expended a lot of blood to hold the line in front of Smolensk. So far probably half my summer casualties have been on the Vyazma-Smolensk highway.




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RE: Axis on the Defense!! - 3/23/2013 3:15:35 PM   
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TURN 12 - SEPTEMBER 30, 1943 - SOUTHERN FRONT


The Southern Front has always been better off than the others but unfortunately its weakness is the Left Flank which always gets beaten back. Once the Don was flanked in the North I have to slowly peel the line back regardless of how strong it is. 2 turns ago I tried to hold the Don with a screen and send strength North but it ended terribly. A-Game busted through the regiments and encircled one of my best ID's. I was unable to break the siege so a full withdrawal was ordered. Here we see a Romanian division that's 50/50 of getting cut off.




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RE: Axis on the Defense!! - 3/31/2013 2:58:04 AM   
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TURN 126 - NOVEMBER 11, 1943 - NORTH FRONT


The disappointingly few mud turns are over and the combat is back on. Random weather gave me 3 mud turns in North/Center Zones denying me a given period of retrenching. A-Game is doing what a good attacker should do: Leave a threadbare force where he's static and send everything to the schwerpunkt. In AGN's region he's prying open the area south of Lake Ilmen. If this line is opened up I'll be forced to abandon the Volkhov and begin retreating to the Panther Line. However, I have dispatched several infantry divisions from 16. Army and OKH along with the newly arrived SS Panzer Division and 2nd Parachute Division to reinforce this joint.




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RE: Axis on the Defense!! - 3/31/2013 3:07:37 AM   
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TURN 126 - NOVEMBER 11, 1943 - CENTER FRONT


In the center I decided to weaken the flanks and make sure I'm always defending the shortest route to Berlin. I've almost managed to create 3 layers of troops so hopefully I can slow down his drive a bit. A-Game has done well by keeping many of my elite units out of the main schwerpunkt. Not anymore.

From Bryansk down to Kharkov its largely single regiments or weak divisions manning the line with only small Russian infantry divisions to counter.

I've also started experimenting with a tactic Pelton mentioned: Deleting Corp HQ and using Army HQ to manage the Front. I hate to say it but its the way to go. It's gamey but it makes everything much more efficient on defense and when the front gets smaller. I deleted 10 Corps HQ's this turn...50k back in the bank.




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