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German Armored Car Production - seems suspiciouly low

 
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German Armored Car Production - seems suspiciouly low - 10/4/2012 11:43:22 PM   
DorianGray

 

Posts: 114
Joined: 8/2/2008
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Gentlemen,

One glaring issue I seem to encounter when playing as the GHC is the almost universal short-fall of German Armored Car production. (i.e. SdKfz-XXX variants.) It is highly common to see German formations sitting at a 0% TOE allowance indefinately.

These vehicles seem to have been designed for recon / counter-recon roles and I am a bit skeptical rather these excessive universal shortages (as currently modeled in the game) would not have been addressed at some point.

I am wondering if perhaps:

1. Loss rate is calculated too high?
2. Production rate is calculated too low?

Historic production rate data seems to be rather sketchy at best and so I am not able to reliably fact-check (2) above.


The in-game production rate for the SdKfz-222 and SdKfz-231 is set at 3 / week. I believe that this would equate to a yearly production rate of 156 armored cars for each of these types - or 624 total for 4 years of production. (I don't believe GHC is allowed 4 years of production though, so 624 is probably way too high, but will go with that figure anyways for the time being...)

I have found some production data at http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/armored-cars/sdkfz231-8-rad.asp , but cannot vouch for its accuracy. Following is same sample data taken from this source:

Panzerspähwagen SdKfz 222: 989, 1,000, 1,801
◦Production: 1936 - 1945, 1936 - June 1943, 1938
◦Manufacturer: Weserhütte2, Schichau, MNH2, Büssing-NAG2, Horch

•schwerer Panzerspähwagen SdKfz 231 (8-Rad): 1,235
◦Production: 1937 - 1942

•Schwere Panzerspähwagen (7.5cm) (SdKfz 231): 600, 607
◦Production: 1936 - ? , 1936 - September 1943
◦Manufacturer: Deutsche Werke, Schichau1


Never-the-less, the in-game production rate does not seem to line up with this data either.

I personally suspect an error in the in-game German armored car production rates and am wondering if this issue has been previously observed or raised by other players, testers?

Post #: 1
RE: German Armored Car Production - seems suspiciouly low - 10/5/2012 12:08:33 AM   
Denniss

 

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From: Germany, Hannover (region)
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The 231 production data shown there is somewhat strange, what they listed as 7.5cm 231 should actually be the 2cm 231 8-rad production. The 1200 may be all 231 8-rad variants altogether although we have the 233 separated.

1000 should be somewhat correct for the whole 222 production, don't know how many 221/223 had been produced without checking my books.

Problems for many german armored cars (and other vehicles/AFC) is scrapping: 221 starts with 1940 end date and are eligible for scrapping if more than 9 are in pool. Once the german inf divs upgrade their TOE and remove the light armored cars most of them go this route (light armored cars are rarely used in other TOE). The others start scrapping the year after their production ended.

(in reply to DorianGray)
Post #: 2
RE: German Armored Car Production - seems suspiciouly low - 10/5/2012 7:48:19 AM   
Jakerson

 

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Joined: 8/15/2006
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I think those low number are only basic version armoured cars that are produced for recon purpose. You have to note that most of armoured cars in the production system comes out as AA-platforms, mortar or mg platforms. They have hull of same armoured car that is modified for various purpose.

If you count all aa version, mortar and other variate versions armoured car together production numbers are a lot higher.

Some armoured cars are even converted to tank destroyers and come out as TD.

< Message edited by Jakerson -- 10/5/2012 7:49:38 AM >

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 3
RE: German Armored Car Production - seems suspiciouly low - 10/5/2012 12:48:20 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 5505
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
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Mixing-up armored cars and half-tracks?!?

_____________________________

WitE dev team - (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08 project dev team (data/scenario changes)
WitW dev team (aircraft data)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)

(in reply to Jakerson)
Post #: 4
RE: German Armored Car Production - seems suspiciouly low - 10/5/2012 12:49:15 PM   
jaw

 

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Joined: 7/24/2009
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Trey and I are working on an overhaul of Axis AFV production in WitE which hopefully will go to the testers within a week or two. I can't say how long it will be before the changes make it into an official upgrade.

(in reply to DorianGray)
Post #: 5
RE: German Armored Car Production - seems suspiciouly low - 10/5/2012 2:34:10 PM   
DorianGray

 

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This is good news indeed!

(in reply to jaw)
Post #: 6
RE: German Armored Car Production - seems suspiciouly low - 10/5/2012 2:54:18 PM   
DorianGray

 

Posts: 114
Joined: 8/2/2008
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Following is a more complete chart as taken from site listed above:

Germany's Vehicle Production - Armored Cars Total
-------------------------------------------------
Maschinengewehrkraftwagen M.G. Kw Kfz 13 - 147, 150

Kfz 14 - 403

SdKfz 221 - 339, 340

SdKfz 222 - 989

SdKfz 223 - 117, 550

SdKfz 231/232 (6 Rad) - 123, 1,000

SdKfz 247 (6 Rad) - 10

SdKfz 263 (6 Rad) - 28

SdKfz 231/232 (8 Rad) - 600, 607, 928, 1,235

SdKfz 247 (8 Rad) - 58

SdKfz 263 (8 Rad) - 84, 240

SdKfz 233 - 109

SdKfz 234 Fgst - 15

SdKfz 234/1 - 200

SdKfz 234/2 - 94, 101

SdKfz 234/3 - 88

SdKfz 234/4 - 89, 98

SdKfz 260/261 - 493



(in reply to DorianGray)
Post #: 7
RE: German Armored Car Production - seems suspiciouly low - 10/5/2012 3:36:01 PM   
Omat


Posts: 1881
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline
Hello

Maybe this is interesting and helpful:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/panzerspahfahrzeuge.htm

Omat

< Message edited by Omat -- 10/5/2012 3:37:00 PM >


_____________________________

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
Bertrand Russell

(in reply to DorianGray)
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