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Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 3:21:05 AM   
jzardos


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I'm really not impressed with my IJA Ki27b-Nates and would like to switch production of them to another fighter. I have enough in the pool for the future. What would people recommend? What are the best seaplanes to use in 42-43?

Looks like the Oscars are a good choice?

Thanks

< Message edited by jzardos -- 10/4/2012 3:23:06 AM >
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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 3:58:52 AM   
SqzMyLemon


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Oscar's are pretty much the only army fighter you can produce until the Tojo IIa becomes available. You certainly don't need to produce Nate's anymore. As you upgrade air units to Oscar's, the Nate's will be returned to your pool. You'll have plenty to use in rear area training units and enough to replace Ops losses for the remainder of the war.

I generally produce about 100-150 Oscar's a month to try and upgrade Nate units quickly. They also get shot down in droves, so you'll need to produce a lot of them until better fighters become available to you.

You'll get tons of advice on airframes to produce, but if you do some hunting there are numerous threads already that go into great detail about Japanese air production and the best models to produce.

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 6:25:45 AM   
Numdydar

 

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Anything else

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 8:30:44 AM   
Chris H

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Oscar's are pretty much the only army fighter you can produce until the Tojo IIa becomes available. You certainly don't need to produce Nate's anymore. As you upgrade air units to Oscar's, the Nate's will be returned to your pool. You'll have plenty to use in rear area training units and enough to replace Ops losses for the remainder of the war.



Change the small factory to Oscars and increase it's size to 30. Keep the larger and produce them until the engines run out by which time the Tojo will be on line. Use the Nates in China, Manchukuo, Japan and as raid defense in the DEA. Replace any other Nate units with Oscars.

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 9:13:24 AM   
GreyJoy


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KI-43 Ic is the only way you have to chose. Nates simply suck in anything that is now point defence. But i suggest to not overproduce Oscar Ic too much. Soon the Oscar IIa and b will become available and they will outclass the Ic model. If you overproduce the Ic model you're gonna find your pools swimming with this plane which becomes useless (even for Kami attacks!) from 9/42 on...

The Tojo IIa will be your main Army fighter for a while, while the Oscars will be used mainly for escort duties...

Clearly depends on how hard you press on during the first months, but i'd say 100 Oscars/month are more than enough to be produced

In my game against QBall i'm in 6/42 and, producing 88 oscars/monthly i even stopped the production in may, having in pool more than 288 Oscars (after having converted some 200 of them to Tojos obviously)

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 9:45:06 AM   
Chris H

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

KI-43 Ic is the only way you have to chose. Nates simply suck in anything that is now point defence. But i suggest to not overproduce Oscar Ic too much. Soon the Oscar IIa and b will become available and they will outclass the Ic model. If you overproduce the Ic model you're gonna find your pools swimming with this plane which becomes useless (even for Kami attacks!) from 9/42 on...

The Tojo IIa will be your main Army fighter for a while, while the Oscars will be used mainly for escort duties...

Clearly depends on how hard you press on during the first months, but i'd say 100 Oscars/month are more than enough to be produced

In my game against QBall i'm in 6/42 and, producing 88 oscars/monthly i even stopped the production in may, having in pool more than 288 Oscars (after having converted some 200 of them to Tojos obviously)


After changing one Nate to Oscar I'm producing 70 Oscars Ic a month and have only 9 in the pool. I've still got a few 1a and 1b going so I'm not really producing enough 1c. Your 88 seems about right, a 100 is too many I think. Once the Tojo comes on line I'll switch the Nate to it and contemplate switching the largest Oscar factory (40) as well. This would give me 100 Tojo.

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 10:23:11 AM   
koniu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

KI-43 Ic is the only way you have to chose. Nates simply suck in anything that is now point defence. But i suggest to not overproduce Oscar Ic too much. Soon the Oscar IIa and b will become available and they will outclass the Ic model. If you overproduce the Ic model you're gonna find your pools swimming with this plane which becomes useless (even for Kami attacks!) from 9/42 on...


Maybe KI-43 Ic is not good as kami because have no bombs but I think they are still good enough to use as ablative armor in escort missions. There is no big difference between Ic and IIa or IIb when flying as escort, they all will die very fast.

even if overproduced they can be use in escort role until poll will be empty.


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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 10:25:01 AM   
castor troy


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I wouldn't produce Nates at all, not even as long as you have engines. Better to waste those engines instead of wasting those engines AND wasting additional HI for it (not to talk about the pilots dying in those flying deathtraps).

I would just go with the same route all ppl suggest, Oscar, then Tojo.

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 10:34:54 AM   
Empire101


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I used to run along the lines of not wanting to waste the stockpiled engines you have at the start of the game, but I now just switch all Nate production to Oscar Ic, and produce around 120 a month.

This gives me 4-5 Oscars everyday, as there are alot of Nate Squadrons to replace in active theatres, and op losses and combat losses start to mount up over time.

I just use the Nate as a trainer in Japan and Manchuria.

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 10:47:33 AM   
Historiker


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Nates can be used with some effect for strafing troops in China. I got acceptable results out of this.

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 10:47:46 AM   
Puhis


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Usually I'm producing about 150 Ic Oscars. It's not too much, because:
1) you can always turn off factory if planes are piling in pool
2) later you can upgrade factories for free, and IIa and especially IIb Oscar is much better planes, and I need them more anyway (playing PDU off).

IMO there's absolutely no point producing a single Nate. In the begining Japan have about 400 Nates, that's more than enough to run flight schools...

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 10:53:35 AM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

Usually I'm producing about 150 Ic Oscars. It's not too much, because:
1) you can always turn off factory if planes are piling in pool
2) later you can upgrade factories for free, and IIa and especially IIb Oscar is much better planes, and I need them more anyway (playing PDU off).

IMO there's absolutely no point producing a single Nate. In the begining Japan have about 400 Nates, that's more than enough to run flight schools...


Puhis was the one that changed my mind about Nate production in an earlier thread on this subject, and he is absolutely right.

Hmmmm....150 a month......I think I'm going to change up from 120 to 150 a month, now I come to think about it in my current PBEM.

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but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 11:13:24 AM   
GreyJoy


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Well the production numbers may differ. It all depends on what kind of game you're playing. However from 80 to 150 oscars produced everymonth means 80k supplies spent just to repair those factories, not counting the HIs spent to enlarge them.
On escort role the KI-43 Ic isn't good as the IIb model, because it has smaller range (12 with drop tanks) and has no armour.

But again, is all about tastes. I tend to be a lot more conservative when it's about supply wasting (but i'm playing DBB scenarios, so very little supply everywhere on the map). I treat my pilots as they were real men, so i tend not to throw them away. That's probably why i've lost so few oscars so far.
However i do prefer to keep my production numbers down for the Oscars Ic and, eventually (if i'll have the means in terms of supply) expand those factories once they can upgrade to IIa model

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 11:25:05 AM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Well the production numbers may differ. It all depends on what kind of game you're playing. However from 80 to 150 oscars produced everymonth means 80k supplies spent just to repair those factories, not counting the HIs spent to enlarge them.
On escort role the KI-43 Ic isn't good as the IIb model, because it has smaller range (12 with drop tanks) and has no armour.

But again, is all about tastes. I tend to be a lot more conservative when it's about supply wasting (but i'm playing DBB scenarios, so very little supply everywhere on the map). I treat my pilots as they were real men, so i tend not to throw them away. That's probably why i've lost so few oscars so far.
However i do prefer to keep my production numbers down for the Oscars Ic and, eventually (if i'll have the means in terms of supply) expand those factories once they can upgrade to IIa model



I play stock, although for my next PBEM I'm thinking of dipping my toe into DBB.
My reasoning runs along the lines that I'm going to capture a fair shedful of HI in China, as I've always advocated a 'Kick China over a cliff strategy'.

Success in China means I can afford to be a little more extravagant, although it depends on very much on if the Allied player can formulate a coherent response to Japanese aggression in China.

In my last PBEM it was'nt a problem, but my current opponent ( Dirty Harry ) is another matter.
China will be much harder to 'kick over a cliff'

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but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
- Michael Burleigh


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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 12:10:07 PM   
CV 2

 

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One would hope that this whole discussion is based on PDUs being off. Because if they are on, you are better off not producing ANYTHING until the Tojo is out. Fight the early war with the Oscars you got and Zeros.

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/4/2012 9:47:14 PM   
inqistor


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Problem with converting NATE factories to something else, is that it will be damaged, and have to be repaired, and you need army fighters NOW, not in 2 months.

So, if you convert Maebashi factory into OSCARS, you will make maybe 10 planes during December, but if you leave NATEs in place, you will have 30 (or more, if you expand).


Not, that NATEs are any good (although they seems to work good against unarmored planes). However, you need to destroy as many early Allied planes, as you can, before he rebase them to rear, and wait for reinforcements to employ them again.
So, either few OSCARS, and many NATEs now, or converting SEVERAL factories into OSCARS, to get them immediately.

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/5/2012 3:04:00 PM   
Shark7


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I know a lot of people don't, but I do go ahead and produce both Ki-44 and Ki-61. Each has its uses.

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/5/2012 3:24:33 PM   
CV 2

 

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As do I

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/5/2012 5:30:03 PM   
btbw

 

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IJA
120 Ki-43-1c - sweep, escort, cap
45 Nates (for use engine pool)- strafe, train
60 Sally 2a
30 Ann - bomb, train
30 Mary (for use engine pool) - bomb, train
30 Dinah 2 (for use engine pool) - recon, train
60 transport Sally
30 Ida (freeze till Mary produced) - train
IJN
90-120 Zero
0-30 Claude (for use engine pool) - train
15-30 Kate 1 (for use engine) - train
60-120 Kate 2
60-90 Val
60 Jake
60 Betty (optional 30 Betty+30 Nell converted in G3M3)
30 Glen
15 Babs
15 Tina
15 Mavis


Development
A6M2-N Rufe (when repaired convert in A6M5)
A6M3 Zero (...in A6M3a)
A6M5d-S Zero
A7M2 Sam
B6N1 Jill
B7A2 Grace
C6N1 Myrt
D4Y1 Judy
H8K1 Emily
J7W1 Shinden
N1K1-J George
P1Y1 Frances
Ki-44 Tojo (... in -44c)
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah
Ki-49-Ia Helen (... in 49-2a)
Ki-49-IIa Helen
Ki-67-Ia Peggy (... in -1b)
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy
Ki-83
Ki-84a Frank


< Message edited by btbw -- 10/5/2012 5:32:33 PM >

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/5/2012 5:39:32 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

I know a lot of people don't, but I do go ahead and produce both Ki-44 and Ki-61. Each has its uses.


Just curious, why produce the Tony? In the old days of WITP there were whole threads devoted to Tojo v Tony, but with data changes, etc, it seems to me the pendulum has swung to the Tojo. Why?

--Tojo is slightly faster
--Tojo is more maneuverable
--Tojo has greater range
--Ha-60 engine for Tony is a dead-end; you can't use this engine for anything else, complicating production
--Tojo has better Service rating (big issue for Av-starved japanese)

About the only advantage of the Tony is armor, and even that advantage goes away with the Tojo II-c. And they also do look kind of cool, like the Italian Macchi 202 and 205s

Maybe I'm missing something?

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 10/5/2012 5:43:53 PM >


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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/5/2012 6:00:41 PM   
CyrusSpitama


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I have had good luck using the Tonys for CAP turtling. I think it is the armor that makes the Tonys worth of production. I do not produce anything before the Tony-c though! Luckily, my needs for Tonys are minimal and the factories are mostly in place requiring no major tweaking of these industrial assets in the early game(just a little bit of expansion). Yes, the Ha-60 is a dead end but I can easily switch these factories later and we do start with a bunch of them already researching. It is not efficient(to me) to change those factories early due to the already pressed supply needs for changes and expansions elsewhere. Also, I never produced the KAI Tony(yet) since that service rating of 4 is a real hindrance. With the recent patch changes for large airfields, this is a possibility though.

P.S. I know my experiences are limited so far... hope to see more good forum feedback. My experiences are limited to AI only...


edit: meant to add with the stockpiling of engines boosting research, the Tony has even more appeal. It is a simple thing to pool a horde of engines which can allow you to disable the production for them later, once the research has been completed.

< Message edited by CyrusSpitama -- 10/5/2012 6:02:45 PM >


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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/5/2012 6:03:46 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

I know a lot of people don't, but I do go ahead and produce both Ki-44 and Ki-61. Each has its uses.


Just curious, why produce the Tony? In the old days of WITP there were whole threads devoted to Tojo v Tony, but with data changes, etc, it seems to me the pendulum has swung to the Tojo. Why?

--Tojo is slightly faster
--Tojo is more maneuverable
--Tojo has greater range
--Ha-60 engine for Tony is a dead-end; you can't use this engine for anything else, complicating production
--Tojo has better Service rating (big issue for Av-starved japanese)

About the only advantage of the Tony is armor, and even that advantage goes away with the Tojo II-c. And they also do look kind of cool, like the Italian Macchi 202 and 205s

Maybe I'm missing something?


I realize the arguments against it, but they are still useful for point defense. I generally use them in the Home Islands where you have plenty of AV support and bigger bases. I don't produce a lot of them, but I do like to use the ones that you do get in that manner.

It's just been my experience that using not only different altitudes, but different airframes helps in intercepting the strategic 4E raids.

As with everything WiTP, experiences will vary.

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RE: Japanese what should I siwtch Nates to? - 10/5/2012 8:43:35 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

I know a lot of people don't, but I do go ahead and produce both Ki-44 and Ki-61. Each has its uses.


Just curious, why produce the Tony? In the old days of WITP there were whole threads devoted to Tojo v Tony, but with data changes, etc, it seems to me the pendulum has swung to the Tojo. Why?

And they also do look kind of cool, like the Italian Macchi 202 and 205s

Maybe I'm missing something?


There's also the ability to research the Ki-100 along the Ki-61 upgrade path. From what I hear, the Ki-100 is a decent aircraft to have late war. I've never reached the late war period so I have no personal experience with it though.

I like the cool factor of the Ki-61. So it is part of my air arsenal.


< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 10/5/2012 8:45:05 PM >


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