RE: Manual Download

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RE: Manual Download

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RE: Manual Download - 10/10/2012 9:50:33 PM

Missouri_Rebel

Posts: 1475
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cad908

Mo Reb,

1) Rules as Coded (RAC) Some 98% of RAC is directly from RAW. It provides clarifications to the rules and the transition form a paper game to the computer one.
Players Manual (PM) Details sequence of play and all the forms used in MWIF, along with many other goodies are part of MWIF... The timing of their release is up to Matrix.

-Rob

1) Did you get permission to post percentages? Again, posting opinions/reviews is not allowed. I can't post mine you can't post yours.

Actually, I have seen this before. It was posted by Steve, percentages and all. I see no reason to jump on this guy who is trying to help out a new player.

3-16-2012

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3061509

' (RAC). It contains changes that reflect the transition of World in Flames (WIF) from paper maps and cardboard counters to a computer screen, with keyboard and mouse. Yet, 98% of the text is directly from RAW. The changes to RAW can be divided into cosmetic, essential, clarifying, and deviations.'-Steve

Post #2 first paragraph. Not trying to rehash an argument, but I do believe apologies ARE in order. You were wrong Extraneous. Seems simple to me.

mo reb

< Message edited by Missouri_Rebel -- 10/10/2012 9:52:52 PM >

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to Extraneous)

Post #: 91

RE: Manual Download - 10/10/2012 11:14:58 PM

paulderynck

Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel
I'm not sure where I stand right now. As it is I'm searching the net for any info about WiF and the conclusion I have come to is that most of the sites that were around at one point and are linked to in the few fan sites I come across are dead. Surprisingly, there is not much out there.

I plan on reading up on the rules and trying to apply it in VASSAL along with any aids I can find. I wish I could find a cheap copy of the boardgame so I have both the scenario rules and the scenario setups.

All in all pretty early. I want to take my time and as expected, life goes on in between. Plus, I have some great games to play as it stands. As a matter of fact, I have too many games on my hard drive that don't get the right attention before another comes out. Been some good releases this year IMO.

I'm open for suggestions.

mo reb

I am giving myself permission to post the following:

You can get the scenario rules and set-ups off ADG's site: http://www.a-d-g.com.au/

Rules are in: Scenariotxt.doc
Set-up is in: 30setup.zip - which is slightly out of date as it has the US convoys starting in the US, from which they cannot possibly reach all the sea zones they need to be in for the US-Japan Trade Agreement. The revision that was made was to allow the US to start 15 convoy points in Honolulu, but for unknown reasons this file never was updated.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)

Post #: 92

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 12:30:33 AM

Missouri_Rebel

Posts: 1475
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline

Thanks Paul. WoW, that spreadsheet is a mess. Talk about information overload.

What was rule 23. ? My Raw goes to 22 and the scenario txt has rule 24.

Seeing that they release the scenario set ups, does anybody have those for VASSAL? But maybe it would be better getting used to setting up the pieces myself?

For another discussion; while virtual wargames are great and help the bookkeeping so much I have to admit I long for the days of standing over a table for hours at a time. Nothing can replicate the acting and purposeful misdirection keeping an evident self blunder unnoticed.

Don't stare at the troubled area for long.

mo reb

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 93

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 12:47:50 AM

Empire101

Posts: 1896
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

For another discussion; while virtual wargames are great and help the bookkeeping so much I have to admit I long for the days of standing over a table for hours at a time. Nothing can replicate the acting and purposeful misdirection keeping an evident self blunder unnoticed.

Don't stare at the troubled area for long.

mo reb

The halcyon days of my youth before work/marriage/real life etc, impinged on me playing WiF......The triumph as your troops enter Paris...the elation!!

And then the mounting horror as your opponent slowly overcomes your painstakingly constructed Axis armies after you nearly pull off Sealion/Barbarossa/North Afrika/Case Blue/The Pacific/Citadel .....
you just want to strap him in the chair and push the eject button ( metaphorically of course!! ),... as he smugly crushes you into the ground.

Another song...Another Stalingrad.......Happy days!!!

< Message edited by Empire101 -- 10/11/2012 12:50:22 AM >

_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy. - Michael Burleigh

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)

Post #: 94

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 2:02:20 AM

Cad908

Posts: 1020
Joined: 10/9/2009
Status: offline

Mo Reb,

Board Game Geek has a page for World in Flames

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1499/world-in-flames

I stop by once a week or so. There are session reports, rules issues and is an interesting source. Some of the games use newer expansions, Factories in Flames etc, that I had to look into as I was reading. Still a very good reference on the board game.

-Rob

(in reply to Empire101)

Post #: 95

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 4:07:33 AM

paulderynck

Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Thanks Paul. WoW, that spreadsheet is a mess. Talk about information overload.

It looks OK when printed.

quote:

What was rule 23. ? My Raw goes to 22 and the scenario txt has rule 24.

Seeing that they release the scenario set ups, does anybody have those for VASSAL? But maybe it would be better getting used to setting up the pieces myself?

For another discussion; while virtual wargames are great and help the bookkeeping so much I have to admit I long for the days of standing over a table for hours at a time. Nothing can replicate the acting and purposeful misdirection keeping an evident self blunder unnoticed.

Don't stare at the troubled area for long.

mo reb

NOTICE: In the following, I am not talking about MWiF.

23 is the Index and Glossary.

The Vassal module comes with a set-up for all the scenarios but only for the "Classic" version. It also has two Super Deluxe Global War set-ups - one that was done with all the extra POLiF, AiF etc. units and one that was built for the latest version (7.00) of the module, and excludes a lot of the add-on kits (but does have SiF, PiF, MiF, AfiF)

But when setting up you have lots of leeway so it's not as though every at-start unit is on the map when you open those scenarios.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 10/11/2012 4:08:23 AM >

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)

Post #: 96

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 1:03:40 PM

abj9562

Posts: 786
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

For those who do not know The nice thing about Vassal is you can play the game; but, you are suppossed to own a copy of the game you are playing. However unlike MWiF rules are not enforced, supply is not checked etc.... So MWiF will be the only way to go for computer play.

_____________________________

Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 97

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 1:27:58 PM

Extraneous

Posts: 1104
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel
I'm not sure where I stand right now. As it is I'm searching the net for any info about WiF and the conclusion I have come to is that most of the sites that were around at one point and are linked to in the few fan sites I come across are dead. Surprisingly, there is not much out there.

I plan on reading up on the rules and trying to apply it in VASSAL along with any aids I can find. I wish I could find a cheap copy of the boardgame so I have both the scenario rules and the scenario setups.

All in all pretty early. I want to take my time and as expected, life goes on in between. Plus, I have some great games to play as it stands. As a matter of fact, I have too many games on my hard drive that don't get the right attention before another comes out. Been some good releases this year IMO.

I'm open for suggestions.

mo reb

I am giving myself permission to post the following:

You can get the scenario rules and set-ups off ADG's site: http://www.a-d-g.com.au/

Rules are in: Scenariotxt.doc
Set-up is in: 30setup.zip - which is slightly out of date as it has the US convoys starting in the US, from which they cannot possibly reach all the sea zones they need to be in for the US-Japan Trade Agreement. The revision that was made was to allow the US to start 15 convoy points in Honolulu, but for unknown reasons this file never was updated.

paulderynck

But you could have just linked to the thread I started from wayyyyyy back (also there more information in the thread).

The RaW 7 Aug 04 and Scenario RTF

< Message edited by Extraneous -- 10/11/2012 1:37:10 PM >

_____________________________

It's not worth doing something unless you were doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to abj9562)

Post #: 98

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 6:32:59 PM

paulderynck

Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
But you could have just linked to the thread I started from wayyyyyy back (also there more information in the thread).

The RaW 7 Aug 04 and Scenario RTF

Somebody named 'Mziln' started that thread.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Extraneous)

Post #: 99

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 8:39:23 PM

warspite1

Posts: 10828
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

For those who do not know The nice thing about Vassal is you can play the game; but, you are suppossed to own a copy of the game you are playing. However unlike MWiF rules are not enforced, supply is not checked etc.... So MWiF will be the only way to go for computer play.

warspite1

Why do you need a copy of the game abj9562? How exactly does Vassal work?? I don't understand

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.

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Post #: 100

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 8:58:07 PM

Orm

Posts: 3808
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
But you could have just linked to the thread I started from wayyyyyy back (also there more information in the thread).

The RaW 7 Aug 04 and Scenario RTF

Somebody named 'Mziln' started that thread.

Extraneous was previously known as Mziln.

_____________________________

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment."

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 101

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 9:15:17 PM

Orm

Posts: 3808
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

For those who do not know The nice thing about Vassal is you can play the game; but, you are suppossed to own a copy of the game you are playing. However unlike MWiF rules are not enforced, supply is not checked etc.... So MWiF will be the only way to go for computer play.

warspite1

Why do you need a copy of the game abj9562? How exactly does Vassal work?? I don't understand

Why don't you look it up at http://www.vassalengine.org/

As I understand it most companies demand that you own the game in order to play it online using free engines such as vassal. Otherwise people could play WIF for free and ADG would make less sales.

_____________________________

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment."

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 102

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 10:14:23 PM

warspite1

Posts: 10828
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

For those who do not know The nice thing about Vassal is you can play the game; but, you are suppossed to own a copy of the game you are playing. However unlike MWiF rules are not enforced, supply is not checked etc.... So MWiF will be the only way to go for computer play.

warspite1

Why do you need a copy of the game abj9562? How exactly does Vassal work?? I don't understand

Why don't you look it up at http://www.vassalengine.org/

As I understand it most companies demand that you own the game in order to play it online using free engines such as vassal. Otherwise people could play WIF for free and ADG would make less sales.

warspite1

Thanks for the link.... that looks waaaaay too complicated for little old me

Ho hum.... the wait for MWIF continues.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 103

RE: Manual Download - 10/11/2012 11:30:40 PM

paulderynck

Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
But you could have just linked to the thread I started from wayyyyyy back (also there more information in the thread).

The RaW 7 Aug 04 and Scenario RTF

Somebody named 'Mziln' started that thread.

Extraneous was previously known as Mziln.

Really??? Why would anyone do that?

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 104

RE: Manual Download - 10/12/2012 3:13:33 AM

Extraneous

Posts: 1104
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
But you could have just linked to the thread I started from wayyyyyy back (also there more information in the thread).

The RaW 7 Aug 04 and Scenario RTF

Somebody named 'Mziln' started that thread.

Extraneous was previously known as Mziln.

Really??? Why would anyone do that?

It was handled by email between Steve and myself.

Or you can read the Beta Testers threads for a clue.

Or you can ask Steve in the Beta Testers threads.

Or you can ask Patrice in the Beta Testers threads. He was involved in the emails too.

But I can't tell you because it is covered by the NDA.

_____________________________

It's not worth doing something unless you were doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 105

RE: Manual Download - 10/12/2012 5:13:02 PM

abj9562

Posts: 786
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

For those who do not know The nice thing about Vassal is you can play the game; but, you are suppossed to own a copy of the game you are playing. However unlike MWiF rules are not enforced, supply is not checked etc.... So MWiF will be the only way to go for computer play.

warspite1

Why do you need a copy of the game abj9562? How exactly does Vassal work?? I don't understand

Vassal is an engine used to recreate wargames for play on a PC. It has many modules (games) that can be played. Some are very very good. VG's The Civil War (not to be confused with AH's earlier Civil War) is a good example. It has no AI, does not enforce rules, calculate supply etc... As previously stated bu Orm ownership is required by publishers to use the game otherwise it would be an infringement of the publisher's and author's work. At least that is the way I understand it. I am not a lawyer or a rules lawyer either

_____________________________

Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 106

RE: Manual Download - 10/13/2012 4:37:12 AM

Missouri_Rebel

Posts: 1475
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cad908

Mo Reb,

Board Game Geek has a page for World in Flames

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1499/world-in-flames

I stop by once a week or so. There are session reports, rules issues and is an interesting source. Some of the games use newer expansions, Factories in Flames etc, that I had to look into as I was reading. Still a very good reference on the board game.

-Rob

Thanks for the heads-up. A lot of good information and clarifications.

quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

For those who do not know The nice thing about Vassal is you can play the game; but, you are suppossed to own a copy of the game you are playing. However unlike MWiF rules are not enforced, supply is not checked etc.... So MWiF will be the only way to go for computer play.

That only seems right. I'm looking at the ADG site now and I think I am going to get the 2007 Deluxe game. I see it doesn't contain the addons of CLif nor CoiF. Does the ruleset that come with the deluxe, which I assume are RAW7, contain the rules to play those additions but just not the counters?

I see snippets of rules in the RAW7 that deal with these expansions but wonder if those expansions contain specific rulesets.

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to Cad908)

Post #: 107

RE: Manual Download - 10/13/2012 2:45:48 PM

abj9562

Posts: 786
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

That only seems right. I'm looking at the ADG site now and I think I am going to get the 2007 Deluxe game. I see it doesn't contain the addons of CLif nor CoiF. Does the ruleset that come with the deluxe, which I assume are RAW7, contain the rules to play those additions but just not the counters?

I see snippets of rules in the RAW7 that deal with these expansions but wonder if those expansions contain specific rulesets.

Latest WiF FE components and in which kit they can be found: http://www.a-d-g.com.au/download/componentsfe.zip

Also, from ADG's site 2007 WiF Super Deluxe Package

"The 2007 WiF Super Deluxe Package has been upgraded to contain all the latest hiqh quality kits and games and now includes World in Flames Deluxe, Days of Decision III, America in Flames, Patton in Flames, Convoys in Flames, Cruisers in Flames, Carrier Planes in Flames, the Millenium WiF Annual and the 2008 WiF Annual"

_____________________________

Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)

Post #: 108

RE: Manual Download - 10/13/2012 4:04:53 PM

Missouri_Rebel

Posts: 1475
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline

$449

for the super deluxe with curb feelers and kitchen sink. Well that aint gonna happen. They sure are proud of their products.

But as to the rules question....?

Believe me, if I thought that the MWiF player aid was going to be released this year or sometime early next year I might wait.

mo reb

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to abj9562)

Post #: 109

RE: Manual Download - 10/13/2012 4:13:55 PM

Orm

Posts: 3808
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

That only seems right. I'm looking at the ADG site now and I think I am going to get the 2007 Deluxe game. I see it doesn't contain the addons of CLif nor CoiF. Does the ruleset that come with the deluxe, which I assume are RAW7, contain the rules to play those additions but just not the counters?

I see snippets of rules in the RAW7 that deal with these expansions but wonder if those expansions contain specific rulesets.

If you just want to play WWII then World in Flame Deluxe Game might be a better choice. The package you are considering includes 3 other complete games that can be combined with WIF. The three games are: Days of Decision III is about the Global political from 1936 leading to WWII. Patton in Flames is a what if USA and USSR went to war, at once, after winning WWII. And America in Flames is a what if Axis won WWII and is about to invade US.

The reason I mention this is because it is a significant diference in price between the two packages.

I think you are correct that RAW7 contain all the rules so you just miss out on the counters.

Edit: I notice I was a bit late with this post. The package I suggested instead is $199.00 and that is a lot as well but much less than $449.

Edit 2: World in Flames has at times been refered to as "Dollars in Flames"....

< Message edited by Orm -- 10/13/2012 4:17:53 PM >

_____________________________

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment."

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Post #: 110

RE: Manual Download - 10/13/2012 9:04:23 PM

abj9562

Posts: 786
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

It is very easy to add to WiF over time. Vassal and the cheapest game version would give you an approach that is affordable and allow you expand as you see fit.

_____________________________

Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 111