Matrix Games

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

Prior to his ejector seat shenanigans, Empire looks on in disbelief as his Flagship disappears

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

What makes WiF shine in you guys' opinion? What has been its secret of longevity especially compared to the obscure A3R?

mo reb

warspite1

Mo Reb I never played Advanced 3rd Reich (although did try 3rd Reich). In my opinion, 3rd Reich and WIF simply do not compare.

There are a number of reasons for WIF being simply the best game ever.

1. I believe it has the right mix of playability and complexity.
2. It is fun without being in any way a "beer and pretzels" game.
3. There are no sure-fire strategies - variable weather, variable turn-length, a degree of luck when picking reinforcements plus of course good old fashioned dice, all go together to ensure that no two games are alike.
4. For those expecting a 100% accurate OB and unit factors, then this is not the game for them. However, what WIF does is give each player an accurate feel for their country's armed forces; the benefits and the problems that go with them - e.g. Commonwealth a small, mobile army - the Commonwealth army must be used sparringly; decent aircraft with a large variety of types giving a good degree of flexibility; and a lot of ships - by no means the best quality (except HMS Warspite of course) and massively overstretched.
5. The ruleset gives the game a proper historical context, but within that framework a player is not strait-jacketed in terms of players being able to try loads of different strategies.
6. A really important element for me with any game is the "look" of the game. WIF looks fantastic (except for the Final Edition maps ) but the superb MWIF map sorts that little problem out . The counters are exceptionally good - NATO symbols for the army, silhouettes for the ships, and full colour camoflagued aircraft. Playing with SIF and PIF is a must for me as these excellent counters really add to gaming experience.

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Great. Like I was saying earlier, I've always wanted to learn WiF since the days of being in the hobby shop buying whatever ASL module it was at the time and asking the guy in front of me what he was purchasing. He said 'Wallet in Flames' and I laughed. Surely there wasn't more add-ons than ASL. My next trip there the owner was out of WiF so I picked up Advanced Third Reich although my time was committed to ASL and I never fully learned that system

I think I am going to like the more detailed units of WiF as opposed to A3R, although it would seem that the latter had a far more detailed diplomacy aspect. For instance, there were situations and country specific rules and forced actions for almost every nation in the conflict. That has always intrigued me. In hindsight, and while skimming the RaW's, I'd say that A3R and its sister game, Empire of the Rising Sun, were much more complex systems, the naval battles notwithstanding. Of course complexity doesn't always correlate to being superior.

Is this a fair assessment? What are your thoughts and how would you direct a noob to learn the system?

What makes WiF shine in you guys' opinion? What has been its secret of longevity especially compared to the obscure A3R?

mo reb



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I'm gonna put this up again because I think we got a little sidetracked. I appreciate the answers so far, but please understand that I'm not asking about MWiF, but the system itself. I think we can discuss what is common knowledge of an existing system without delving into the computer version and compromising anyone's NDA or principles.

Sorry for the confusion.

mo reb

PS. I want a snazzy avatar; What do you think about one of these?

edit: the pic keeps disappearing?

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April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

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ORIGINAL: warspite

The thing I found most difficult to understand was the naval rules - not because they are particularly complicated, but because the whole sea-box concept was completely new to me. No way I could read the manual and understand what was going on - I had to set up the game and work through...but then I'm not exactly brain of Britain

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As for the avatars - they look cool - you can't really go wrong with the Panzer IV or the Panther. Sure you wouldn't prefer a WIF counter instead though?

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ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

Warspite1

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April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

(Only to find Decima Flottiglia MAS had boobytrapped the harbor resulting in the capture of Warspite & all its crew)!!!

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

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ORIGINAL: warspite

The thing I found most difficult to understand was the naval rules - not because they are particularly complicated, but because the whole sea-box concept was completely new to me. No way I could read the manual and understand what was going on - I had to set up the game and work through...but then I'm not exactly brain of Britain

Thanks for the input. I was typing the above post while you were responding.

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As for the avatars - they look cool - you can't really go wrong with the Panzer IV or the Panther. Sure you wouldn't prefer a WIF counter instead though?

Yes I would. Brother could you spare an avatar?

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

I look forward to it Empire. I can see the AAR now:

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

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ORIGINAL: warspite1
I can ask Patrice to let you have one - any requests?

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

I would assume the U.K has to be one of the harder countries to play. Them and maybe Japan.

1) Which country would be the easiest to play as? I would also assume Russia early on as long as the player discovers how to slow the Germans thrust just enough.

2)I guess a noob such as myself should stay away from any global game if there are only a couple of players. Are there a good mix of 2 nation scenarios that would be easiest to begin at?

3) (and most important at this juncture) What are the suggestions for learning the system? How would you direct a potential newcomer?

Read the rules front to back? Concentrate on a certain set of rules? Start with ____ section? Read this article_________? Buy the boardgame to use their examples on map? Use VASSAL?

Please be specific.

I think I might have CWiF on some hard drive. Would you suggest trying to use that as a player aid?

Again,
thanks from a future opponent.

mo reb

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

I look forward to it Empire. I can see the AAR now:

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

With great respect, it would appear from the stats that any competent Japanese commander of Yamato could dispatch Warspite without incurring any serious damage.

The Yamato was 3 kts faster and could fire shells 42 km while the Warspite's record hit with her 15 inchers was at a distance of less than 24 km. The Yamato would have an 18 km "safety zone" whithin which she could fire at the Warspite without danger of being hit herself.

The Warspite would only have a chance if she appeared out of a fog bank or morning mist and was within range of Yamato. Otherwise the Yamato just stays out of range with her superior speed and pummels Warspite with complete impunity.

Sorry.

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AAR: May 1st 1942

Warspite returned to Singapore at the end of the turn for tea and medals, only to find that the Italian X MAS had got there first. However, after quickly recovering from the shock of seeing enemy ships barring his way, Captain F.E.P Hutton devised a cunning plan.

Hutton pretended to surrender his fleet to the Italian sailors and invited them aboard the Flagship; seemingly to offer his sword in surrender. But Hutton had no such intention. As the Italians came aboard the crew of the Warspite shouted Boo! at the top of their voices; frightened by the noise, the Italian sailors immediately put their hands up and found themselves surrendering to Hutton and his men.

Pleased with his work, Hutton then ordered Warspite to enter the port to get some well earned rest. After all, tomorrow was going to be a busy day, Warspite had the rest of the IJN to sink before heading back to the Mediterranean, where, within a couple of weeks, she had also forced the surrender of Mussolini and Italy.

After Italy's exit from the war in July 1942, Hutton formulated his next plan... "time for me to visit the Baltic and deal with that pesky Mr Hitler".

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

I look forward to it Empire. I can see the AAR now:

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

With great respect, it would appear from the stats that any competent Japanese commander of Yamato could dispatch Warspite without incurring any serious damage.

The Yamato was 3 kts faster and could fire shells 42 km while the Warspite's record hit with her 15 inchers was at a distance of less than 24 km. The Yamato would have an 18 km "safety zone" whithin which she could fire at the Warspite without danger of being hit herself.

The Warspite would only have a chance if she appeared out of a fog bank or morning mist and was within range of Yamato. Otherwise the Yamato just stays out of range with her superior speed and pummels Warspite with complete impunity.

Sorry.

warspite1

[whispers] paulderynck, I know .

It's just a bit of harmless banter between myself and my fellow member of the landed-gentry Mr Empire101.

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

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ORIGINAL: warspite1
I can ask Patrice to let you have one - any requests?

Let me take a look at the counters and find one. Thanks, even if you can't do so.

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel
Is the Missouri available?

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Be carefull to keep it in GIF file format, so that the transparency of the corners is not lost.

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ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

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AAR: May 1st 1942

Warspite returned to Singapore at the end of the turn for tea and medals, only to find that the Italian X MAS had got there first. However, after quickly recovering from the shock of seeing enemy ships barring his way, Captain F.E.P Hutton devised a cunning plan.

Hutton pretended to surrender his fleet to the Italian sailors and invited them aboard the Flagship; seemingly to offer his sword in surrender. But Hutton had no such intention. As the Italians came aboard the crew of the Warspite shouted Boo! at the top of their voices; frightened by the noise, the Italian sailors immediately put their hands up and found themselves surrendering to Hutton and his men.

Pleased with his work, Hutton then ordered Warspite to enter the port to get some well earned rest. After all, tomorrow was going to be a busy day, Warspite had the rest of the IJN to sink before heading back to the Mediterranean, where, within a couple of weeks, she had also forced the surrender of Mussolini and Italy.

After Italy's exit from the war in July 1942, Hutton formulated his next plan... "time for me to visit the Baltic and deal with that pesky Mr Hitler".

(That would have been a clever ruse on the part of Hutton & Crew had it not been for the one clue that was completely overlooked; Decima Flottiglia MAS sailors lacked a penis;

After assembling the Italian Crew-women on deck for roll call to remove their wetsuits & facemasks the crewmen of Warspite fell into a deep deep trance as their libidos shifted acutely higher thereby nullifying all resistance to Secret Weapon Italian control. The Warspite fell lovingly into the hands of Decima Flottiglia MAS & floated into captivity to Pitcairn Island & remained as slaves for the rest of their lives. Happy Ending complete).

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel
Is the Missouri available?

This one ?

Be carefull to keep it in GIF file format, so that the transparency of the corners is not lost.

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

<------------------- I like it. Thanks.

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"That incredibly handsome, suave, sophisticated warspite1 bloke was right all along".....

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ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

<------------------- I like it. Thanks.

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ORIGINAL: Cad908

Mo Reb,

Here is a link to the final edition rules with the examples included. The one on ADG's website for some reason does not include the graphics. It was done by a fan, and I would give credit if I knew his / her name.

http://manlig.org/wif/RaW-7mAug2004.pdf

This RAW forms the basis of the game.

Two other documents:

Rules as Coded (RAC) Some 98% of RAC is directly from RAW. It provides clarifications to the rules and the transition form a paper game to the computer one.
Players Manual (PM) Details sequence of play and all the forms used in MWIF, along with many other goodies are part of MWIF... The timing of their release is up to Matrix.


-Rob

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

Mo Reb I never played Advanced 3rd Reich (although did try 3rd Reich). In my opinion, 3rd Reich and WIF simply do not compare.

There are a number of reasons for WIF being simply the best game ever.

1. I believe it has the right mix of playability and complexity.
2. It is fun without being in any way a "beer and pretzels" game.
3. There are no sure-fire strategies - variable weather, variable turn-length, a degree of luck when picking reinforcements plus of course good old fashioned dice, all go together to ensure that no two games are alike.
4. For those expecting a 100% accurate OB and unit factors, then this is not the game for them. However, what WIF does is give each player an accurate feel for their country's armed forces; the benefits and the problems that go with them - e.g. Commonwealth a small, mobile army - the Commonwealth army must be used sparringly; decent aircraft with a large variety of types giving a good degree of flexibility; and a lot of ships - by no means the best quality (except HMS Warspite of course) and massively overstretched.
5. The ruleset gives the game a proper historical context, but within that framework a player is not strait-jacketed in terms of players being able to try loads of different strategies.
6. A really important element for me with any game is the "look" of the game. WIF looks fantastic (except for the Final Edition maps ) but the superb MWIF map sorts that little problem out . The counters are exceptionally good - NATO symbols for the army, silhouettes for the ships, and full colour camoflagued aircraft. Playing with SIF and PIF is a must for me as these excellent counters really add to gaming experience .

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

I look forward to it Empire. I can see the AAR now:

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

With great respect, it would appear from the stats that any competent Japanese commander of Yamato could dispatch Warspite without incurring any serious damage.

The Yamato was 3 kts faster and could fire shells 42 km while the Warspite's record hit with her 15 inchers was at a distance of less than 24 km. The Yamato would have an 18 km "safety zone" whithin which she could fire at the Warspite without danger of being hit herself.

The Warspite would only have a chance if she appeared out of a fog bank or morning mist and was within range of Yamato. Otherwise the Yamato just stays out of range with her superior speed and pummels Warspite with complete impunity.

Sorry.

pauld

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ORIGINAL: Extraneous

I thought I might bring this to your attention (unless your NDA is different than mine).

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Beta Tester Agreement

3. Confidential Information

You shouldn't be giving your opinions of the game (which could be considered a review). I would suggest you re-read your NDA.

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ORIGINAL: Extraneous

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

I look forward to it Empire. I can see the AAR now:

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

With great respect, it would appear from the stats that any competent Japanese commander of Yamato could dispatch Warspite without incurring any serious damage.

The Yamato was 3 kts faster and could fire shells 42 km while the Warspite's record hit with her 15 inchers was at a distance of less than 24 km. The Yamato would have an 18 km "safety zone" whithin which she could fire at the Warspite without danger of being hit herself.

The Warspite would only have a chance if she appeared out of a fog bank or morning mist and was within range of Yamato. Otherwise the Yamato just stays out of range with her superior speed and pummels Warspite with complete impunity.

Sorry.

pauld

Nothing wrong with mentioning an AAR or opinion on a ships actual abilities.