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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

 
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/4/2013 5:05:51 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

It is neat to be able to look back at what seems to be insignificant decisions like shifting bombing targets creating a chain of events that will affect the entire war ... I do think this is what makes this particular game worth investing a lifetime ... despite some particularities ...


True, and thanks to the makers once again for Tracker.

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/4/2013 5:08:36 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Well done, Sir.

Would a deliberate attack be worth it here? I guess with 1/1 detection across the causeway that would be too risky. A couple of fresh divisions could be coming over.



Any sort of attack which gives up Forts and turns the terrain bonus 180 degrees is fatal for me. My troops stay in their fighting holes, sip tea, and try to forget how hungry they are.

Just ran the movie for the next day and he did not attack again. Bombed Singers as usual wiht usual results.


Right you are. Dig. Sip tea. Clutch stomach in hunger pangs. Rinse, lather, repeat. No attacks to squander your superior defensive position.

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/4/2013 5:24:25 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Here are the combat reports beginning with Day 50 (1/25/42) where it looks like he didn't bomb. My memory could be off; I'm very, very old. He did shift to Palembang a lot in there. I'll try to be succinct:


What I see here is a myriad of targets attacked at Singapore: Port, ground units and airfield. Airfield attacks are pathetic in terms of damage wrought.

This explains a lot in my book-he didn't focus on keeping the airfields consistently damaged. As a result, your engineers were able to quickly repair the minor airfield damage and keep on keeping on with the fort construction. Big mistake for him.

ETA: For you JFBs noobs out there reading this: Hit Singapore early and often. Daily. Once aerial fighter resistance ceases, the Singapore airfield should be the preeminent target of your Malay IJAAF bomber forces. You can / should be able to field 100+ airfield raids almost every day and keep the airfield damage in the teens-thirties. This will prevent additional construction of forts.

Don't fritter away your opportunities here by attacking other facilities and certainly don't attack ground units, unless and until the a/f is 100.0% damaged. Like the Allies will learn in future game sieges: bomb, bomb and bomb some more.


I think you make good points. But I would push back a bit in defense of my opponent. Some things in this game are different than Standard:

1) If you look at the first and second screens of daily results you see different deltas in fort building progressions day-to-day, in some cases with forts stalled for a couple of days. If I had left engineers up-country trying to defend those stalls would have stretched for even more days.

2) He bombed the port while I had a lot of ships there. I had merchants in TFs at the pier the first week while I tried to evac troiops, before I understood that PBEM air management is different than AI. Also, up until the last week I always had multiple ships in the yards, usually at least two CLs and almost every day at least one sub. In the first week I probably had seven ships on some days in the yards.

3) I evacced most of the bombers and all the TBs in mid-month to Palembang, which he got after in order to take my pools to nothing and get VPs. Maybe not the best strategy, but not a terrible one for somebody playing a first-time PBEM opponent. When playing the AI I've never had my fighter pools as low as they've been.

4) The China big bug-out has given him dozens of huge, defenseless road-marching formations to feast on, and he has. Not only gaining a huge amount of bombing training, he has made a "good" Chinese corps be one with 40% of its TOE. I stopped reporting on these attacks because they were so numerous, but they have hurt the Chinese army a lot. Again, maybe Singers would have been a better use for the planes, but OTOH Chinese don't have AA and the ooportunities to get at the formations were perishible.

5) I think his biggest mistake was splitting effort between Singers and the PI. Pick one and finish it. He has bombed and bombed and bombed in the PI: Manila, Clark, and Bataan all three. If I were playing amateur shrink I'd say his background as a soldier, like mine as a submariner, makes him leery of wasting units like the ones he came from. He bombs a lot and doesn't take risks with his troops. Which costs time and focus. In the past two days his transmission e-mails with the turns and movies, normally full of cheer and thoughts on the NFL and family stuff, have been terse to the point of just a "Here it is." I think Singers results were shocking to him as they were to me in the opposite direction.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/4/2013 5:31:12 PM >


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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/4/2013 6:38:35 PM   
V I Lenin

 

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Interesting situation you have created at Singapore. You will get some supply production as long as your stockpile of resources lasts. 120000 resources = +- 10000 supply given a mix of heavy and light industry as at SP. Takes time, takes time...but 100t per day, is good to have. It is unfortunate that Japanese control Tanjung Pinang as the 80 resources there would be a big help in feeding industry. I think resources from there move automatically to Singapore past 'narrow strait'.

Good that you are shipping in on fast transports. I suggest once your opponent notices you are running these ships in and out that you take one - only one - and use it to land a raiding force on Tanjung Pinang. Resource production will be ongoing while the Japanese hold it, they are unlikely to be moving any out and you will only need to hold it for a day or two to move the resource movement to occur. There is no hurry to do this. Also you could use one of the big American submarines to land troops. This all depends on, no Japanese on TP (I don't know, probably you do) and my being right about supply movement, which I am not sure. Keep it in your head, though, please.

Other options... no ships past South Sumatra is obvious, too dangerous. No big escort force for big convoy, too much to risk for what you gain. But, you have ships at Sabang. No Japanese up the Strait of Malacca? One or two ships could shuttle between Madras and Singapore by direct route. Dangerous, can be attacked by aircraft from Malaya or submarines, or ships in Singapore hex. But might not be, and it is worth the risk. Take 4 smaller 14kts ships - no more - and do whole run at full speed, one ship every 3-4 days. The difference between their cruise and full is not great, so they take only little engine damage. If they are sunk, no matter, but if one makes it that's equivalent to 4 days of fast transports, or a whole month of local production. It matters now, find volunteer ships!

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 12:08:15 AM   
erstad

 

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quote:

5. I wonder if his units were set on "move" instead of "combat". This would yield lopsided unit disruption if it did. Sure, it's a rookie move, but still possible


That would show as an "op mode(-)" in the combat report

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 12:26:15 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: V I Lenin

Interesting situation you have created at Singapore. You will get some supply production as long as your stockpile of resources lasts.



The manual says Resources and Oil shut down with enemy hex occupation, but is silent on LI/HI. All logistics at Singapore are shut down, presumably due to enemy occupation of the hex. Both the in-game Industry report and Tracker show "Failed" for Manpower, Resources, HI, and LI. Repair Shipyard is not shown as Failed. The numbers for the four Failed categories in the Industry screen have shifted to a blue/purple color.


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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 4:16:39 AM   
crsutton


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If I recall my LI was still producing when Chungking was surrounded and contested.

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 4:45:46 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

If I recall my LI was still producing when Chungking was surrounded and contested.


Two turns now and all production at Singers is off. If anyone has any ideas I'm listening.

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 4:47:49 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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This is the Industry screen for the turn I just got:






Attachment (1)

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 5:28:56 AM   
Alfred

 

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Secondary industry has always been able to continue production if the necessary feedstock is available (either in local stockpile or via imports). The presence of enemy troops has not previously been a factor.

Your screenshot is a bit suspicious with so much stockpiled resources. Therefore I would like to see screenshots of


  • Singapore base
  • Singapore factories (accessed via base screen)


I am suspicious that you have toggled Singapore to "stockpile". That may be preventing the release of thr necessary feedstock to power the secondary industry.

Alfred

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 9:10:24 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

If I recall my LI was still producing when Chungking was surrounded and contested.


That's what I thought was supposed to happen, but Chungking has "slash supply" of 400 to go along with LI of 180, so sometimes it's hard to detangle the sources in the Chinese slash-supply cities.

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 9:19:36 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Secondary industry has always been able to continue production if the necessary feedstock is available (either in local stockpile or via imports). The presence of enemy troops has not previously been a factor.

Your screenshot is a bit suspicious with so much stockpiled resources. Therefore I would like to see screenshots of


  • Singapore base
  • Singapore factories (accessed via base screen)


I am suspicious that you have toggled Singapore to "stockpile". That may be preventing the release of thr necessary feedstock to power the secondary industry.

Alfred


Hi, Alfred. Just back from the mall with a new iPhone 5. Haven't been on-line since last night. Singers has been bothering me all day.

I read the manual, and I went back and read your Logistics 101 post. That says clearly there should be HI/LI production in an occupied hex. Since the manual doesn't say either way, and knowing you, I figured you'd tested it. So I then went to all the patch notes since the Logistics 101 date and didn't find anything that said this feature ahd been patched or changed. I know DBB has changed the refinery supply feature, and that can be done in the editor since it's global to all refineries, but a hex-occupied check would be an If-Then situation and to my way of thinking would need to be in the EXE. IOW, I don't think it could be a Scenario 1 versus 2 issue.

The issue being stockpiling is interesting; I will test that on the turn I have in the box now. I turned stockpiling on at Singers on 12/8/41 I believe, as I knew I was going to retreat and dig in there. Now of course there's no need for it as there are no out-flow possibilities. That might be the trick.

I will post screen shots in a moment. I looked and Singers base has lots of resources and lots of fuel. The individual industry screens have the "ON" in red letters for the four items which are failing in the Industry summary screen. The shipyard is ON in gray. There is nothing in the yards, but that tells me if there were it woud be repaired.

FTing 1000 per turn has me treading water. If I could get HI and LI on I could make good headway to getting to x2 and some replacements on losses and disabled squads.

Last night I also loaded my only other game save, an old AI DBB Lite game, to see if I could test a different base with production and an occupying force. But I have no hexes in that game even close to that status and I didnt want to run lots of turns to get one arranged.

If turning stockpiling off doesn't work I'm stumped.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/5/2013 9:22:14 PM >


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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 9:28:22 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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These screens are for the turn in the box. I have not processed it yet. It is the February 5 turn.






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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 9:29:32 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Manpower






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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 9:30:34 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Resources






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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 9:31:55 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Heavy Industry






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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 9:32:58 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Light Industry






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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/5/2013 9:34:37 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Shipyard






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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/6/2013 5:57:30 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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February 5, 1942

Dark Night in the Sea of Japan

Mike has the flu, so turns will be a little shaky, although he insists he's able to play. It's also the start of the NFL playoff season, so attention by both sides is a little "off." The Vikings were eliminated last night with dispatch by the hated Packers, but I still have favorites and villains.

1) In what the Allies hope is the first of many, a sub attack in the Sea of Japan demonstrates that A) Japan is using the inshore routes and B) they are not escorting all of these TFs. Although the attack failed, it serves notice that no water is safe.






Allied ASW has recently picked up IJN subs near Sydney and off the coast of North Island in NZ, so their efforts are also expanding. So far no subs have been encountered on the CT--Perth routes, but it's only a matter of time. Very few of these are escorted either. This will change as low-mix escorts come on-line. For now they go naked.

2) No action at Singers except light troop bombing by Japan. Intel picks up heavy transmissions at Cam Ranh, which normally means loading and launching TFs if the radio traffic is at a port. Intel also gives a new engineering LCU prepping for Singers.

Stockpiling was turned off at Singers this turn on all lines, even supply, to test the theory this is why the HI/LI industry there is not producing. Another FT 1000-points is recieved.

3) Dutch sub prosecutes three attacks in mid-South China Sea on what looks like an independent ASW TF. All fail, as do the counter-attacks, but this is the first time Japan has done blue-water ASW zones in what are key oil routes. So far no ship traffic is seen at Balikpapan. Possibnly waiting for fuel to accumulate as well as get better air cover from yet-to-be-taken Celebes AFs.

4) Heavy AF attacks at Palembang destroy a few newly arrived planes coming in from CT through Oosthaven. The Allies plan at least a short-term air effort from there against Djambi as well as the encamped troops at Singers. I'm unsure how well Aircobras can carry any sort of CAP effort. I know they're not good at best, but perhaps they can help over a couple of days' B-26 strikes, then retire to recover at Batavia.

5) 140 bombers hit Bataan. With Singers a bit stalemated I expect Japan will finish off Luzon while Singers readies the next attack.

6) Much route bombing in China. No ground attacks this turn.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/6/2013 6:10:38 PM >


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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/8/2013 1:36:44 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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Just got the Feb 6 turn from the sick room of my opponent. Working it now.

But, to further confuse the Allies, Singapore once again failed to produce anything. All industry and resources/fuel were on no-stockpile.

Any ideas?

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/8/2013 2:29:37 AM   
BBfanboy


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That would suggest that having enemy troops in the hex halts production. Other than that, I have no ideas [some would say "no clues" either].

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/8/2013 2:32:51 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That would suggest that having enemy troops in the hex halts production. Other than that, I have no ideas [some would say "no clues" either].


I'm about there as well. But that is different than many experienced players have told me. I'm close to asking in Tech with a "no 1EyedJacks" on it. It's just a bit important to the Allies.

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/8/2013 2:31:33 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That would suggest that having enemy troops in the hex halts production. Other than that, I have no ideas [some would say "no clues" either].


I'm about there as well. But that is different than many experienced players have told me. I'm close to asking in Tech with a "no 1EyedJacks" on it. It's just a bit important to the Allies.


The answer is in .. No "Red October Factory" producing like all mad while the IJ are shooting for you sir! An interesting game play decision in some respects. Forces the seige situation against the defense for sure .. but I would probably go for more a exponential curve of damage and decreased production modified by die rolls rather than just cut it off completely as the troops reach the city. More for gameplay purposes than any citation of reality ....

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/8/2013 2:58:26 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That would suggest that having enemy troops in the hex halts production. Other than that, I have no ideas [some would say "no clues" either].


I'm about there as well. But that is different than many experienced players have told me. I'm close to asking in Tech with a "no 1EyedJacks" on it. It's just a bit important to the Allies.


The answer is in .. No "Red October Factory" producing like all mad while the IJ are shooting for you sir! An interesting game play decision in some respects. Forces the seige situation against the defense for sure .. but I would probably go for more a exponential curve of damage and decreased production modified by die rolls rather than just cut it off completely as the troops reach the city. More for gameplay purposes than any citation of reality ....


My reaction was along the lines of "Crap . . . and so forth." Singers is in a bad place without it. So is Palembang. I wonder if the change happened in the midst of all the debate about fortress Palembangs and refineries throwing off supply? This to me is very different, as WWII saw many cities under siege continue to make significant amounts of war materiel.

But, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I'll get hurt at Singers and Palembang, but I can use the info myself, certainly in the mid- and late-war.

I can honestly say that had I known I wouldn't have done anything differently. I still would have built Forts 4, and I still wouldn't have sacrificed many ships to get supply into Singers once the air umbrella was in place and the CAP was dead.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/8/2013 3:00:59 PM >


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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/8/2013 3:15:45 PM   
Crackaces


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This also explains the outcry of my most recent opponent. I entered Hong Kong and the industry went to zero. Supply followed quickly. I did not think much of it .. until now ... He was expecting a previous behavior but it had insidously changed ..

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/8/2013 3:27:10 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

This also explains the outcry of my most recent opponent. I entered Hong Kong and the industry went to zero. Supply followed quickly. I did not think much of it .. until now ... He was expecting a previous behavior but it had insidously changed ..


It probably did for me too, but I didn't notice. HK is a goner so fast, and there's so much else to do that week, I don't recall even looking at supply there.

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/8/2013 3:41:31 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Singers is in a bad place without it.


All the more reason to get supply in there STAT. Hazard the cost while you can.

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/8/2013 3:46:57 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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February 6, 1942

"Weeee're heeeeere!"

I don't even recall what movie that line is from, but it's appropriate today.

1) A quick, sudden spike in combat aircraft at Palembang, including some with range to reach Singers, includes the first large Aircoibra unit. Uncrated today, it rises as low-altitude CAP and gives Japan what I hope is a rude surprise. With some high-altitude Hurricanes to keep the Zeros elsewhere Aircobra cannons can mess up some bombers. Some bombs fall, but damage is minor.

Afternoon Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 11
G3M2 Nell x 17

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 3
B-339D x 1
P-39D Airacobra x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 1 damaged
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 4

The next raid, with Oscars, gets a bit roughed up as well.

Afternoon Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 21
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 9

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 3
B-339D x 1
P-39D Airacobra x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 3 damaged
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed on ground
B-26 Marauder: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied ground losses:
3 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 6

2) Five bombing missions at Singers all target the AF. No CAP, but the AA is stiff here and Japan takes more damage which should result in ops losses. The revelations about supply non-generation might shift the Palembang bombers onto Singers. It's what I would do. Still no evidence he knows I'm sneaking 1000 supply per day into the base.

3) Lots of ASW today but no hits. Japan shoots at S-boat in shallow water in the strait NW of Batavia, but misses. DD attacks I-boat off Sydney. S-boat goes into Johnson and sees Fuso is still in residence. With no sightings of the KB and nearly five healthy BBs at Pearl I'm thinking of a raid. But I also worry that's what he wants and taking down the large surface force in Hawaii is a key step to an invasion. At Pearl a DD TF heading for CONUS to pick up the incoming TF carrying the Americal Division fights off an I-boat as it passes.

The sole loss is AK Castor, part of a 3-ship escorted resupply TF for Midway coming out of Pearl. I hate to lose AKs as they have sweet upgrades later on, but Midway has a small port and is still a front-line base with Johnson's situation, etc. Should run resupply in from CONUS, but I got impatient.

4) Near Mandalay the Chinese bombers, with some AVG escort now, hit LCUs and do minor disruption. About half of AVG is riding P-40s, and they kill two Zeros.

5) The land battle here is shaping up to be interesting. Japan takes vacant Tienshui with 3rd Tank Reg. I have seen a base force in trail. I don't think (map not open) this opens the RR up yet. I have Chinese units maneuvering to the east, seeking to get south of this hex and cut the gray road, combined with Chinese bombing. If the base force gets there I may move 4-5 Chinese corps onto the hex (good roads from Mandalay) and see what I can do to kill some tanks. So far Chittagong supply has not flowed anywhere, but it's still building. Even without supply though 30,000 Chinese infantry can hurt one regiment of tanks with no Forts.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/8/2013 3:50:34 PM >


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The Moose

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 628
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/8/2013 3:51:39 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8790
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Singers is in a bad place without it.


All the more reason to get supply in there STAT. Hazard the cost while you can.


Well, if I had KNOWNNNNN . . .

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The Moose

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 629
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/8/2013 3:59:34 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18473
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
"Weeee're heeeeere!"

I don't even recall what movie that line is from, but it's appropriate today.


"Poltergeist". And the quote (by some blonde innocent-looking 5 YO girl) is "They're here..."

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(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 630
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