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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

 
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/1/2013 7:34:44 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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Re: Americal division - I expect you are aware that the PP cost goes up if it takes on more squads, and have therefore set it to "no reinforcements".
What is your experience with this setting? I started a new game recently [currently at Jan. 11/42] and from day one I set the units I needed to buy to "No Replacements" which automatically sets "No Upgrades" as well. I also did this with all the Permanently Restricted US units to save devices for when I did buy units and remove the "No Replacements" restriction.
Well guess what - all the units are filling out with troops regardless of the NR setting.
Not only has this increased the cost of units I hoped to buy as cheaply as possible before they filled out, it used up devices in the pools to fill out the PR units that will never need those devices!
Am I missing something about how to manage this stuff?

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Post #: 541
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/1/2013 8:00:44 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Re: Americal division - I expect you are aware that the PP cost goes up if it takes on more squads, and have therefore set it to "no reinforcements".
What is your experience with this setting? I started a new game recently [currently at Jan. 11/42] and from day one I set the units I needed to buy to "No Replacements" which automatically sets "No Upgrades" as well. I also did this with all the Permanently Restricted US units to save devices for when I did buy units and remove the "No Replacements" restriction.
Well guess what - all the units are filling out with troops regardless of the NR setting.
Not only has this increased the cost of units I hoped to buy as cheaply as possible before they filled out, it used up devices in the pools to fill out the PR units that will never need those devices!
Am I missing something about how to manage this stuff?


I have Americal set to OFF, not for the better reason you state but only because I'm clueless what all the fancy new ASCII symbols mean (= and such.) I don't want to get to combine time and find I have arty mismatches or something.

I have not seen what you say, but I confess I don't watch for device leaks at all. I assumed if it was OFF it was off. We set all replacements and all base building to Off in the pre-game by agreement. I do watch the aoperationsreport.txt every day and that report gives device flows. I assumed it was complete. If it is I have not seen any leakage.

Upgrades does come Off when replacements are the same. In most cases that doesn't matter since an upgrade is years away. I manage/look for TOE upgrades through Tracker though, not in-game.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/1/2013 8:02:39 PM >


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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/1/2013 8:13:46 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 2386
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From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
It's easy to tell if a unit set to "Off" is getting devices added anyway. They show up first as "disabled", the amount in brackets before the number of active devices of the same type. I could understand if all my units set to accept replacements were already filled out and the other units sitting in bases with lots of supply started to fill out anyway, but that is not the case. I have a couple of unrestricted PAC FLEET Base Forces that just need a couple of infantry squads, a dozen support squads and a few vehicles to be complete, and these devices are going instead to the Permanently Restricted US units that have "no replacements" set. I realize the game only allows a certain number of devices added to a unit per week, but that is no reason to drain the damn pools giving out to units that do not need them!
Ah, well - put it down to the inefficiencies of the supply system vs. what the planners intend.

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 543
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/1/2013 9:20:04 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

It's easy to tell if a unit set to "Off" is getting devices added anyway. They show up first as "disabled", the amount in brackets before the number of active devices of the same type. I could understand if all my units set to accept replacements were already filled out and the other units sitting in bases with lots of supply started to fill out anyway, but that is not the case. I have a couple of unrestricted PAC FLEET Base Forces that just need a couple of infantry squads, a dozen support squads and a few vehicles to be complete, and these devices are going instead to the Permanently Restricted US units that have "no replacements" set. I realize the game only allows a certain number of devices added to a unit per week, but that is no reason to drain the damn pools giving out to units that do not need them!
Ah, well - put it down to the inefficiencies of the supply system vs. what the planners intend.


This might be worth a query to Michael. I don't think any should be going if OFF is set. If they are there might be a hole in the button logic. Or there could be some undocumented thing where permanently-restricted get devices out of thin air in some cases or something similar.

Or it could be a bug he can fix easily with a line of code. You never know.

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Post #: 544
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 1:17:54 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
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February 2, 1942

Groundhog Day

Like the classic Bill Murray movie, today was just like many other days.

1) Lots of bombers get lost on night bombing missions. Johnson, Burma. Those that pressed on do no damage. Chinese bombers try to hit Prome and Toungoo air fields, and do, for no damage.

2) Sweeps at Palembang. One Hurricane lost.

3) Sweeps at Bataan. No P-40s lost. (Yawn.)

4) Bombing at Praboemoelih again. Maybe I should send an LCU to sit there and wait for the paratroops? (Another yawn.)

5) Sabang, Singers, Bataan get bombed. A few Japanese bombers are destroyed, over 20 damaged. Some supplies burn up. The pattern repeats . . .

6) Chinese troops get a rain of steel as they seek a Burmese vacation.

7) Allied daytime bombing of stack moving across countryside near Magwe. Infantry regiment damaged. This is new intel. Have now seen tanks, base force, and infantry. This stack was Oscar CAPed.

8) First AVG CAP trap works over Meiktila. Even though AVG not upgraded, unescorted Bettys are meat.

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 29

Allied aircraft
H81-A3 x 6
Buffalo I x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 6 destroyed, 4 damaged

9) Vacant Shaoyang taken by single regiment. Chinese former defenders about 50 miles west. Still, Japan did not move the Changsha stack forward to do this. Yet.

Give several Chinese units in mountains between Paoshan and Lashio orders to move into mountains and dig. Continue redeployment of Mandalay hordes into jungle, mostly to SE and SW. Begin upgrades on about half DD force eligible, and 1/3 of CAs. Scores of merchants as well.

Singers goes to Forts 4. Will stop there and focus on supply build.

Where's that toaster? It needs to go for a dip in my bathwater as I see if I can break this neverending cycle . . .


< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/2/2013 5:14:07 PM >


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Post #: 545
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 2:28:30 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 2386
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
Won't work Moose!
You need to start learning to play piano and do ice scultures with a chainsaw. Oh, and get some neighbourhood kids to climb trees so you can catch them when they fall.

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 546
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 2:49:24 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17862
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Won't work Moose!
You need to start learning to play piano and do ice scultures with a chainsaw. Oh, and get some neighbourhood kids to climb trees so you can catch them when they fall.

That won't work either! [shifts nervously, straightens loud tie] Moose never was popular. Or attractive. I tell ya-when he was a kid, his mother had to tie pork chops to his ears, so that the dog would play with him! No respect!

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Post #: 547
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 5:15:57 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Won't work Moose!
You need to start learning to play piano and do ice scultures with a chainsaw. Oh, and get some neighbourhood kids to climb trees so you can catch them when they fall.


Wasn't that a great movie? Except for the Sonny and Cher song?

The piano bit made me think he was in the loop for at least five years, his time. Did Paux. have a shrink?


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Post #: 548
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 5:16:56 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Won't work Moose!
You need to start learning to play piano and do ice scultures with a chainsaw. Oh, and get some neighbourhood kids to climb trees so you can catch them when they fall.

That won't work either! [shifts nervously, straightens loud tie] Moose never was popular. Or attractive. I tell ya-when he was a kid, his mother had to tie pork chops to his ears, so that the dog would play with him! No respect!


You forgot [rimshot.]

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Post #: 549
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 5:24:06 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Status report






Attachment (1)

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 7:00:09 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 2386
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
Looks like you have taken a good toll of his torpedo bombers already. That always brightens an AFB's day!

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 551
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 7:26:08 PM   
Lomri

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 2/6/2009
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I have device issues too although I really only focus on infantry squads. When '42 inf squads started upgrading in BFs all over the place I went into the ground forces menu and fiddled around there turning all upgrades off. For instance clicking through the "restricted" list and turning those off. Then engineers and turning those off. I thought this was a slam dunk.

But it hasn't been. Somehow BFs still got upgrades sucking precious modern squads. I'm in summer 43 and the same thing still seems to happen. I don't look frequently enough so really I start to question my sanity. "Didn't I turn these OFF??". I'm starting to think that maybe game patches or some other process flips them on again when I'm not looking.

What HAS worked is using the stockpile functionality in the pools menu. Turn everyone off, turn stock pile on, then watch your levels, pick your favorite unit, turn them on, turn stock pile off, hope things work the way you expect. And usually it doesn't happen right away so I forget to flip things back the way they were until I see some random BF upgrade. (Didn't I turn that BF upgrade off? aaah!).


As for how many days he spent in Groundhog Day, the creator said ten years, but this guy thought otherwise:
http://whatculture.com/film/just-how-many-days-does-bill-murray-really-spend-stuck-reliving-groundhog-day.php

But I think even HE is too low.

< Message edited by Lomri -- 1/2/2013 7:27:00 PM >

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 552
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 9:09:25 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Looks like you have taken a good toll of his torpedo bombers already. That always brightens an AFB's day!


Yeah, but mostly early.

The Mavis ops losses are interesting too. A lot of long-range transporting going on?

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Post #: 553
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 9:13:14 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17862
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Looks like you have taken a good toll of his torpedo bombers already. That always brightens an AFB's day!


Yeah, but mostly early.

The Mavis ops losses are interesting too. A lot of long-range transporting going on?


No. The H6K4 Mavis losses you see on your screen are the patrol / scout / recon version of the plane. The H6K4-L version is the one capable of significant transport. More likely the Mavises were lost because they are dogs in the air and they tend to OPS loss a lot, even after a routine long-range naval search mission.

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Post #: 554
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 9:13:36 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lomri

I have device issues too although I really only focus on infantry squads. When '42 inf squads started upgrading in BFs all over the place I went into the ground forces menu and fiddled around there turning all upgrades off. For instance clicking through the "restricted" list and turning those off. Then engineers and turning those off. I thought this was a slam dunk.

But it hasn't been. Somehow BFs still got upgrades sucking precious modern squads. I'm in summer 43 and the same thing still seems to happen. I don't look frequently enough so really I start to question my sanity. "Didn't I turn these OFF??". I'm starting to think that maybe game patches or some other process flips them on again when I'm not looking.

What HAS worked is using the stockpile functionality in the pools menu. Turn everyone off, turn stock pile on, then watch your levels, pick your favorite unit, turn them on, turn stock pile off, hope things work the way you expect. And usually it doesn't happen right away so I forget to flip things back the way they were until I see some random BF upgrade. (Didn't I turn that BF upgrade off? aaah!).


As for how many days he spent in Groundhog Day, the creator said ten years, but this guy thought otherwise:
http://whatculture.com/film/just-how-many-days-does-bill-murray-really-spend-stuck-reliving-groundhog-day.php

But I think even HE is too low.


I think you guys should bring this up in Tech. It's possible Michael nicked the Replacements code when he put in stockpiling, or something similar. Base forces have always been a trapdoor ready to devour infantry squads needed in combat formations if one were not careful. In my first AI game the USMC squads went to base forces and forevermore refused to fill out the 2nd Marine Division until I was pointed in the right direction by a dev (I think it might have been Symon.)

I read the Groundhog Day link. I think his estimate is too long, moslty because he thinks learning French takes twelve years! Even if it was five years, or ten, would many of us still be showing up for work every day at the hollow stump? I sure wouldn't be.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/2/2013 9:15:06 PM >


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Post #: 555
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/2/2013 9:14:32 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Looks like you have taken a good toll of his torpedo bombers already. That always brightens an AFB's day!


Yeah, but mostly early.

The Mavis ops losses are interesting too. A lot of long-range transporting going on?


No. The H6K4 Mavis losses you see on your screen are the patrol / scout / recon version of the plane. The H6K4-L version is the one capable of significant transport. More likely the Mavises were lost because they are dogs in the air and they tend to OPS loss a lot, even after a routine long-range naval search mission.


Well, even so, 25 lost (100 engines!) in seven weeks is stiff.

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Post #: 556
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 2:24:35 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17862
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Well, even so, 25 lost (100 engines!) in seven weeks is stiff.


Yes, it is. I reckon that a high importance on naval search plus long-range aerial reconnaisance of strategic targets in and around the Hawaiian islands has put these guys on overtime. Mavis no likee overtime.

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Post #: 557
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 2:41:12 AM   
bigred


Posts: 2862
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lomri

I have device issues too although I really only focus on infantry squads. When '42 inf squads started upgrading in BFs all over the place I went into the ground forces menu and fiddled around there turning all upgrades off. For instance clicking through the "restricted" list and turning those off. Then engineers and turning those off. I thought this was a slam dunk.

But it hasn't been. Somehow BFs still got upgrades sucking precious modern squads. I'm in summer 43 and the same thing still seems to happen. I don't look frequently enough so really I start to question my sanity. "Didn't I turn these OFF??". I'm starting to think that maybe game patches or some other process flips them on again when I'm not looking.

What HAS worked is using the stockpile functionality in the pools menu. Turn everyone off, turn stock pile on, then watch your levels, pick your favorite unit, turn them on, turn stock pile off, hope things work the way you expect. And usually it doesn't happen right away so I forget to flip things back the way they were until I see some random BF upgrade. (Didn't I turn that BF upgrade off? aaah!).


As for how many days he spent in Groundhog Day, the creator said ten years, but this guy thought otherwise:
http://whatculture.com/film/just-how-many-days-does-bill-murray-really-spend-stuck-reliving-groundhog-day.php

But I think even HE is too low.


I think you guys should bring this up in Tech. It's possible Michael nicked the Replacements code when he put in stockpiling, or something similar. Base forces have always been a trapdoor ready to devour infantry squads needed in combat formations if one were not careful. In my first AI game the USMC squads went to base forces and forevermore refused to fill out the 2nd Marine Division until I was pointed in the right direction by a dev (I think it might have been Symon.)

I read the Groundhog Day link. I think his estimate is too long, moslty because he thinks learning French takes twelve years! Even if it was five years, or ten, would many of us still be showing up for work every day at the hollow stump? I sure wouldn't be.

IIRC w/ beta 1121:
1. if a 42 inf unit is at full strength, and upgrade is on, then this unit will upgrade to next(43) at no cost of inf(43) strength points from the pool.
2. Over a period of 6 months, all 42 inf pool points will slowly become 43 points, then 44 points. Someone said : "all they are doing is opening crates w/ new weapons".
3. For the upgrade to occur:
a. This will happen faster if the unit is at rest.
B. In a base w/ 20000supply.
c. Also next to a parent corp/Army HQ.
D. IIRC I have seen the upgrade occur in the field in a hex w/enemy units, but not often.
E. At least one point of the year sqd must be in the pool for the upgrade to occur w/ stockpiling turned off. So be careful. If u try to upgrade a less then full strength unit then you may get screwed!!!

all said and I may be off topic,sorry.

< Message edited by bigred -- 1/3/2013 2:54:29 AM >


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Post #: 558
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 8:37:37 AM   
Commander Cody


Posts: 847
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline
Surely we can all agree that the plural of "Mavis" is "Mavi?"

Cheers,
CC

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Post #: 559
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 1:32:26 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lomri

I have device issues too although I really only focus on infantry squads. When '42 inf squads started upgrading in BFs all over the place I went into the ground forces menu and fiddled around there turning all upgrades off. For instance clicking through the "restricted" list and turning those off. Then engineers and turning those off. I thought this was a slam dunk.

But it hasn't been. Somehow BFs still got upgrades sucking precious modern squads. I'm in summer 43 and the same thing still seems to happen. I don't look frequently enough so really I start to question my sanity. "Didn't I turn these OFF??". I'm starting to think that maybe game patches or some other process flips them on again when I'm not looking.

What HAS worked is using the stockpile functionality in the pools menu. Turn everyone off, turn stock pile on, then watch your levels, pick your favorite unit, turn them on, turn stock pile off, hope things work the way you expect. And usually it doesn't happen right away so I forget to flip things back the way they were until I see some random BF upgrade. (Didn't I turn that BF upgrade off? aaah!).


As for how many days he spent in Groundhog Day, the creator said ten years, but this guy thought otherwise:
http://whatculture.com/film/just-how-many-days-does-bill-murray-really-spend-stuck-reliving-groundhog-day.php

But I think even HE is too low.


I think you guys should bring this up in Tech. It's possible Michael nicked the Replacements code when he put in stockpiling, or something similar. Base forces have always been a trapdoor ready to devour infantry squads needed in combat formations if one were not careful. In my first AI game the USMC squads went to base forces and forevermore refused to fill out the 2nd Marine Division until I was pointed in the right direction by a dev (I think it might have been Symon.)

I read the Groundhog Day link. I think his estimate is too long, moslty because he thinks learning French takes twelve years! Even if it was five years, or ten, would many of us still be showing up for work every day at the hollow stump? I sure wouldn't be.

IIRC w/ beta 1121:
1. if a 42 inf unit is at full strength, and upgrade is on, then this unit will upgrade to next(43) at no cost of inf(43) strength points from the pool.
2. Over a period of 6 months, all 42 inf pool points will slowly become 43 points, then 44 points. Someone said : "all they are doing is opening crates w/ new weapons".
3. For the upgrade to occur:
a. This will happen faster if the unit is at rest.
B. In a base w/ 20000supply.
c. Also next to a parent corp/Army HQ.
D. IIRC I have seen the upgrade occur in the field in a hex w/enemy units, but not often.
E. At least one point of the year sqd must be in the pool for the upgrade to occur w/ stockpiling turned off. So be careful. If u try to upgrade a less then full strength unit then you may get screwed!!!

all said and I may be off topic,sorry.


Yeah, the questions are coming from situations where it looks like units with replacements OFF are still drawing them.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to bigred)
Post #: 560
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 1:33:24 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Well, even so, 25 lost (100 engines!) in seven weeks is stiff.


Yes, it is. I reckon that a high importance on naval search plus long-range aerial reconnaisance of strategic targets in and around the Hawaiian islands has put these guys on overtime. Mavis no likee overtime.


Blowing some up in Bombardment might have stressed the survivors. I also wonder if he's still looking for non-existent Oz-bound convoys?

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Post #: 561
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 1:36:41 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Surely we can all agree that the plural of "Mavis" is "Mavi?"

Cheers,
CC


I get the humor, but I always struggle with this as a sometimes word-purist. I render the plural of the Betty model as Bettys and not Betties. In American usage the latter would be the plural for the woman's name. Judy/Judies as well, and probably others. But Bettys offers more clarity to me in war-reporting terms.

Edit: re Mavis/Mavi, it seems to come most directly from a modification of the name of the Irish queen, Mab, who was a popular subject of Elizabethian playwrights. The original Latin etymology is from malo (present, active voice, indicative) (malle, infinitive) which means "to prefer." The derivation coming from Queen Mab gives "Mavis" as "song thrush." The English plural is "Mavises."

Side note: Latin "malo" is the subject of a classic Latin mnemonic, illustrating why the language led to me failing the only course I ever failed in college.

Malo: I would rather be
Malo: In an apple tree
Malo: Than a naughty boy
Malo: In adversity

Now tell me, what other AAR offers this kind of stuff?! (Interrobang there; non-standard punctuation!)

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/3/2013 1:49:13 PM >


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Post #: 562
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 2:26:59 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17862
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Surely we can all agree that the plural of "Mavis" is "Mavi?"

Cheers,
CC


I get the humor, but I always struggle with this as a sometimes word-purist. I render the plural of the Betty model as Bettys and not Betties. In American usage the latter would be the plural for the woman's name. Judy/Judies as well, and probably others. But Bettys offers more clarity to me in war-reporting terms.

Edit: re Mavis/Mavi, it seems to come most directly from a modification of the name of the Irish queen, Mab, who was a popular subject of Elizabethian playwrights. The original Latin etymology is from malo (present, active voice, indicative) (malle, infinitive) which means "to prefer." The derivation coming from Queen Mab gives "Mavis" as "song thrush." The English plural is "Mavises."

Side note: Latin "malo" is the subject of a classic Latin mnemonic, illustrating why the language led to me failing the only course I ever failed in college.

Malo: I would rather be
Malo: In an apple tree
Malo: Than a naughty boy
Malo: In adversity

Now tell me, what other AAR offers this kind of stuff?! (Interrobang there; non-standard punctuation!)


Can we agree on Mavum then? Or why not have the deer / deer plural phenemonon? In which case, the plural of Mavis is Mavis.

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(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 563
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 2:37:57 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Surely we can all agree that the plural of "Mavis" is "Mavi?"

Cheers,
CC


I get the humor, but I always struggle with this as a sometimes word-purist. I render the plural of the Betty model as Bettys and not Betties. In American usage the latter would be the plural for the woman's name. Judy/Judies as well, and probably others. But Bettys offers more clarity to me in war-reporting terms.

Edit: re Mavis/Mavi, it seems to come most directly from a modification of the name of the Irish queen, Mab, who was a popular subject of Elizabethian playwrights. The original Latin etymology is from malo (present, active voice, indicative) (malle, infinitive) which means "to prefer." The derivation coming from Queen Mab gives "Mavis" as "song thrush." The English plural is "Mavises."

Side note: Latin "malo" is the subject of a classic Latin mnemonic, illustrating why the language led to me failing the only course I ever failed in college.

Malo: I would rather be
Malo: In an apple tree
Malo: Than a naughty boy
Malo: In adversity

Now tell me, what other AAR offers this kind of stuff?! (Interrobang there; non-standard punctuation!)


Can we agree on Mavum then? Or why not have the deer / deer plural phenemonon? In which case, the plural of Mavis is Mavis.


Wiki seems to give the noun form as 2nd declension, so I think a Latin plural of "Mavi" would be correct if my 35-YO memory still works. An -um ending would I think indicate 3rd declension. But as a proper noun all bets are off.

If Mrs. Mavis Smith and her friend Mrs. Mavis Jones were having tea one would say that two Mavises were present. Mavis in this context is an English proper noun, not Latin.

If I, myself, me, moi, the writer here, were speaking of two dastardly Japanese patrol planes out to ruin the Good Guys' war effort I would render it as two Mavises since that is the plural of the woman's name. Similarly, Nell and Nells. Names ending in "y" such as Betty and Judy are the ones which seem odd to me.

In other "war" news I just ran the movie for today and the siege of Singapore is on. I'm not sure what to make of the attack structure, so I would appreciate any JFB input. FWIW, the city did not fall on the first day.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/3/2013 2:38:49 PM >


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The Moose

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 564
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 3:38:28 PM   
Lomri

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

1. if a 42 inf unit is at full strength, and upgrade is on, then this unit will upgrade to next(43) at no cost of inf(43) strength points from the pool.



Sorry to hi-jack again. But bigred, what do you mean by full strength in the above? Do you mean 0 disabled squads (or 0 any disabled devices) or full TOE? For instance if the unit is at 53/100 it won't upgrade, but if it is at 86/86 will it?

(in reply to bigred)
Post #: 565
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 4:10:56 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17862
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I'm not sure what to make of the attack structure, so I would appreciate any JFB input.


Show us whats you gots.

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(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 566
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 4:19:00 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 2386
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Surely we can all agree that the plural of "Mavis" is "Mavi?"

Cheers,
CC


I get the humor, but I always struggle with this as a sometimes word-purist. I render the plural of the Betty model as Bettys and not Betties. In American usage the latter would be the plural for the woman's name. Judy/Judies as well, and probably others. But Bettys offers more clarity to me in war-reporting terms.

Edit: re Mavis/Mavi, it seems to come most directly from a modification of the name of the Irish queen, Mab, who was a popular subject of Elizabethian playwrights. The original Latin etymology is from malo (present, active voice, indicative) (malle, infinitive) which means "to prefer." The derivation coming from Queen Mab gives "Mavis" as "song thrush." The English plural is "Mavises."

Side note: Latin "malo" is the subject of a classic Latin mnemonic, illustrating why the language led to me failing the only course I ever failed in college.

Malo: I would rather be
Malo: In an apple tree
Malo: Than a naughty boy
Malo: In adversity

Now tell me, what other AAR offers this kind of stuff?! (Interrobang there; non-standard punctuation!)


Can we agree on Mavum then? Or why not have the deer / deer plural phenemonon? In which case, the plural of Mavis is Mavis.


Wiki seems to give the noun form as 2nd declension, so I think a Latin plural of "Mavi" would be correct if my 35-YO memory still works. An -um ending would I think indicate 3rd declension. But as a proper noun all bets are off.

If Mrs. Mavis Smith and her friend Mrs. Mavis Jones were having tea one would say that two Mavises were present. Mavis in this context is an English proper noun, not Latin.

If I, myself, me, moi, the writer here, were speaking of two dastardly Japanese patrol planes out to ruin the Good Guys' war effort I would render it as two Mavises since that is the plural of the woman's name. Similarly, Nell and Nells. Names ending in "y" such as Betty and Judy are the ones which seem odd to me.

In other "war" news I just ran the movie for today and the siege of Singapore is on. I'm not sure what to make of the attack structure, so I would appreciate any JFB input. FWIW, the city did not fall on the first day.

Sez the Moose, whose plural is still Moose!

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 567
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 5:28:34 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8325
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
February 3, 1942

The Curtain Opens . . .


To me, the two worst days of the war do not include 12/7/41. That one is going to happen, you're fresh to the new game, eager to see what's to be. It's almost never as bad as history and most of the ships will survive to be yardbirds. No, for me the two worst, the two which make that Tracker chart line in the VP section do an 80 degree power shift, are when Singers and Bataan fall. An Allied player riding along at 1.8:1 or so in the core ratio is suddenly drowning, with ten months to go until auto-vic lottery draw day. To add to the misery, unlike Pearl which is over in one bad combat replay session, both Singers and Bataan usually take days, or weeks, of viewing before the inevitable.

Today the twin stadium shows started as the Japanese hordes crossed the causeway and hit Singers like a bull. The base was battened down. One day past a key Forts 4 milestone, it had not had time to build organic supply without engineers holding their hands out. Inventories were at about 12,000 points. Three Fast Transport missions from Palembang had come and gone with 1000 each load, but the Full speed needed to ensure the TF could make the round-trip in one turn had already taken some of the APDs into mid-teens system damage. Singers had no planes present, so there was no warning of the crossing. Only one harbor defense launch was there to see it either. The shipyard was empty. Every LCU was in combat mode, and at least somewhat prepped; a few were at 100%. All COs had been upgraded, some lavishly. And then the assault . . .

But first, the day's other news.

1) ASW air patrol fly-fly boys are the biggest liars in the game. Based on their reports the Allies have already sunk 87 IJN subs. I always pass over their claims that every time they see a sub and drop on it there's a sunk sub there. But today that report was accompanied by the deep-water sunk sub breaking-up noises and a report that I-9 was down. The next turn's opening screen shows no icon north of Pearl where one had been. So, in this case, I believe the lying fool. Well done, Army.

2) Dutch sub attacks APD SW of Balikpapan. Don't know if this is ASW barrier patrol or a piece of a landing force going for the Celebes or southern Borneo. Still no sight of the TF attacked and wounded three days ago. Soerbaja raider TF headed home to fuel today.

3) Heavy, sustained attacks on Sabang again. There is a good AA unit there from CT, so the attacks are usually 10,000 ft., and do little. But this is more evidence Japan is thinking fuel and oil and might see Palembang as a tougher nut.

4) Another day of bombing at Praboemoelih. Multiple days got my attention and this turn a Dutch infantry unit leaves Palembang to go sit there. If it meets paras so much the better. Oosthaven has three TFs in port today unloading multiple aircraft groups (Aircobras and B-26) as well as loading fuel to run to Cocos. A landing force there in the next three days would make me unhappy.

5) The last Singers bombing day before the attack does a lot of damage again to IJA planes:

apanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 20
Ki-27b Nate x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 18 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed by flak

And then the Main Event . . .

6) First, the raw results:

Ground combat at Singapore (50,84)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 59539 troops, 597 guns, 353 vehicles, Assault Value = 2026

Defending force 46131 troops, 582 guns, 367 vehicles, Assault Value = 1307

Japanese adjusted assault: 541

Allied adjusted defense: 6799

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 12 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
9362 casualties reported
Squads: 304 destroyed, 1163 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 110 disabled
Engineers: 11 destroyed, 218 disabled
Guns lost 76 (26 destroyed, 50 disabled)
Vehicles lost 26 (1 destroyed, 25 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
1997 casualties reported
Squads: 15 destroyed, 190 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 40 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 30 disabled
Guns lost 61 (4 destroyed, 57 disabled)


Assaulting units:
56th Infantry Regiment
113th Infantry Regiment
23rd Ind. Engineer Regiment
56th Recon Regiment
55th Infantry Regiment
15th Ind. Engineer Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment
12th Engineer Regiment
148th Infantry Regiment
21st Infantry Regiment
42nd Infantry Regiment
4th Ind. Engineer Regiment
Imperial Guards Division
11th Infantry Regiment
16th Infantry Regiment
5th Recon Regiment
56th Engineer Regiment
114th Infantry Regiment
24th Infantry Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st RF Gun Battalion
25th Army
56th Field Artillery Regiment
20th AA Regiment
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th Field Artillery Regiment
18th Mountain Gun Regiment
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
34th Field AA Battalion

Defending units:
27th Australian Brigade
22nd Australian Brigade
3rd Cavalry Regiment
1st Malay Battalion
1st Manchester Battalion
SSVF Brigade
2nd Loyal Battalion
2/17 Dogra Battalion
3rd SSVF Battalion
5/14th Punjab Battalion
1st Hyderabad Battalion
1st Mysore Battalion
2nd Malay Battalion
11th Indian Division
9th Indian Division
1st ISF Base Force
FMSV Brigade
1st Indian Heavy AA Regiment
Singapore Base Force
223 Group RAF
110th RAF Base Force
3rd Heavy AA Regiment
1st HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
AHQ Far East
112th RAF Base Force
2nd ISF Base Force
Singapore Fortress
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
111th RAF Base Force
3rd ISF Base Force
Malaya Army
3rd HK&S Light AA Regiment
III Indian Corps
24th NZ Pioneer Coy
Malayan Air Wing
109th RAF Base Force
22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
109th RN Base Force

On balance these results make me ecstatic.

1) His infantry is not formed into divisions. Is this normal for human JFBs? The AI would have 7-8 full divisions in this effort, and very few non-combined formations.

2) Forts held at 4. I was very afraid I would lose one, or maybe two, levels and I can't afford to rebuild now.

3) The casualty ratios speak for themselves considering I have only three premium infantry units (the two Aussies and the Indian 11th division), no AFVs to speak of, and a lot less arty than I'd like.

4) I watched the attack animation in full, which I almost never do. The Guards Division began at 441 on the number next to its line in the stack, and ended at 332. All of the infantry regiments but one ended at 0. That one was at 6.

5) Ending Allied conditions are good. Still have about 11,800 supply. Disruption accrual was nil, as was fatigue. Here are about half the Allied LCUs sorted by fatigue.








6) Japanese VPs lost due to troop loss 12/7 through today was 80. After today: 122. It was a "black" day overall for Allied VP ratios.

So, any comments?

Question for the ground combat experts out there: is it worth the supply usage to bombard him after this? I expect he already has max experience in his LCUs so that isn't much of a consideration to me, but is the disruption hit worth the supplies and counter-battery risk to me?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/3/2013 5:39:04 PM >


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The Moose

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 568
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 5:39:49 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 2607
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
Wow .. every bit of attrition on these units means a delay and/or reallocation of forces to attack Burma. Since you are in a knife fight with no home rules .. that front is going to be very interesting to watch unfold ... The scenario #2 games I have followed all has HR's forcing the Commonwealth to either buy units or wait for the onslaught in INdia. You have a great opporunity to have that contest along the Kayelmo -- Wazzup line ..maybe in the Irrawaddy Valley which I propose would be absolutely disasterious for the IJ given you can unleash that Indian Armor into the LOC's w/o paying PP's ..

I will supppose since you are up agasint scenario #2 .. it will not be as decisive as my current PBEM game [scenario #1] but 5 straight days of these levels of loses ended up causing total havoc in Burma ... and eventually Thailand and China ..

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(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 569
RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwin... - 1/3/2013 5:51:32 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17862
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
Comments re: Singapore:

1. Yes-he should have recombined as many LCUs as possible into Divisions. Regiments are 'fragile' comparatively. This was a mistake.
2. Not nearly enough IJ artillery and support. Why isn't "Southern Army" HQ here?
3. He should have been bombing Singapore's airfield daily to prevent forts from being built. Having Singapore forts=4 is a huge uphill climb for the Japanese.
4. I count ~1600 destroyed / disabled Japanese 'units' capable of producing an assault value unit. This will take extensive rest / refurbishment / reinforcement and remodeling.
5. I wonder if his units were set on "move" instead of "combat". This would yield lopsided unit disruption if it did. Sure, it's a rookie move, but still possible.
6. I wonder about his prep levels. Have these LCUs been prepping accordingly since the outbreak of hostilities?

Upshot: Good show. You've blunted his offensive capabilities here for at least a month. Maybe longer. His preparation and forethought was not what it could have been and it will cost him. Make 'im pay!

Can you get more supplies into Singapore now? Would you consider some fighter cover into the city in order to import supplies? Realistically, you only need the fighter commitment for 3-4 days, just to cover incoming convoys during their most exposed period.

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