What to do with KB after t1?

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What to do with KB after t1?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> What to do with KB after t1?

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What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 7:17:59 PM

jzardos

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I'm sure that this question has been answer many times, so I apologize for asking again. But I'm a relative noob when it comes to WitP:AE so point me to previous posts if you can.

Just wanted to know what to do with the KB task force after t#1. Seems like I could stay and hit Pearl for another round and not have to worry about US CV TFs.. too far to reach if I maneuver KB to east of Pearl? So here's my list of choices:

- stay and hot Pearl again.. curious what I can accomplish without surprises edge.
- hunt for US CV TFs
- help protect Wake and other landings in central pacific.

Thanks in advance for any advice! Very surprised and impressed with how thorough some of the players are on this forum with there thoughts and AARs.

< Message edited by jzardos -- 9/24/2012 7:19:35 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 7:34:18 PM

Commander Stormwolf

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park between WC and Hawaii , and sink saratoga or troop convoys

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"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

(in reply to jzardos)

Post #: 2

RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 7:41:09 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 1825
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

I'm sure that this question has been answer many times, so I apologize for asking again. But I'm a relative noob when it comes to WitP:AE so point me to previous posts if you can.

Just wanted to know what to do with the KB task force after t#1. Seems like I could stay and hit Pearl for another round and not have to worry about US CV TFs.. too far to reach if I maneuver KB to east of Pearl? So here's my list of choices:

- stay and hot Pearl again.. curious what I can accomplish without surprises edge.
- hunt for US CV TFs
- help protect Wake and other landings in central pacific.

Thanks in advance for any advice! Very surprised and impressed with how thorough some of the players are on this forum with there thoughts and AARs.

I would say it depends on if you are playing against the AI or not!

Staying a second or even third day at PH is pretty much the norm I think.

But hunting the US CV I think would be considered a bit "gamey" as historically you wouldn�t have known where they are!

If you are playing against the AI I suggest you do what the Japanese did historically. Return home! The AI needs every bit of help it can get. No need to smack it about!

(in reply to jzardos)

Post #: 3

RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 7:41:09 PM

btbw

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t2 - attack PH with moving between PH-Midway-Johnston area
t3 - start search enemy CVs
t4 - repeat PH attack with moving to Palmyra if dont foind before CVs

in next turn you can detach 1-2 CV with low sorties left and clean up east from PH (AK, TK, AO and reinforce CV can be found, also possible withdrawn crippled ships from PH moving to SD/SF)
P.S. Of course if you play PBEM, against AI dont need any that action.

< Message edited by btbw -- 9/24/2012 7:43:59 PM >

(in reply to Commander Stormwolf)

Post #: 4

RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 8:04:43 PM

jzardos

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Joined: 3/15/2011
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Well it's against AI for now, but I will probably playing against a Human very soon. So would like advice against human opponent.

What should I set my CV fighter, DB, and TB planes to with respect to CAP and TARGET? Would a human player leave stuff at Pearl or try and run it away in many different TFs? I know there's lots of planes on the AF, should I being doing AF attacks too?

So I have max CV sorties before I have to return to a base? Or just per turn (12 hrs)? Will try and look through manual to determine this aspect of game.

Thanks for any/all advice.

< Message edited by jzardos -- 9/24/2012 8:05:53 PM >

(in reply to btbw)

Post #: 5

RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 8:06:33 PM

Gr�fin Zeppelin

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If this is your first game I would move it to the DEI to support the landings there. Dont do AF attacks with the KB. The pilots are to valuable. Port attacks also only if some really valuable stuff is in the port.

< Message edited by Gr�fin Zeppelin -- 9/24/2012 8:08:11 PM >

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RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 8:22:44 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 14899
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From: Twin Cities, MN
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I generally will opt for a Manila strike on turn one. If you do this, KB is there to help exploit the attacks in the DEI right off. Hitting PH after several (alerted) turns may get painful to your OPS / pilot losses. Furthermore, afterwards, you're a long ways away from affecting anything useful in the DEI if you hit PH.

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RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 9:13:58 PM

dr.hal

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I must say that folks seem to be awfully eager to hit Pearl a number of times. This may seem stupid, but I don't think that's as wise as it seems on the surface (pun intended). First you are risking your elite aircrews at the very start of the game. These folks can not be replaced very easily and certain not anytime in the near future. Once Pearl is awake, it's defenses can hit back. Does the Japanese player really need to risk these aircrews on ships that might be raised anyway (AND are of questionable value to begin with)? What you certainly want to do is sink ships at sea, where they can't be raised (like the Nevada almost did!). But it seems to me that every aircrew that is lost is a win for the allies in those first dark days (or Sunny ones if you are the Japanese player!). So hitting Pearl many times might have appeal in the near term, does it stand up to long term review? I'm not sure. Just a thought... Hal

(in reply to Chickenboy)

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RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 9:29:07 PM

jzardos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I must say that folks seem to be awfully eager to hit Pearl a number of times. This may seem stupid, but I don't think that's as wise as it seems on the surface (pun intended). First you are risking your elite aircrews at the very start of the game. These folks can not be replaced very easily and certain not anytime in the near future. Once Pearl is awake, it's defenses can hit back. Does the Japanese player really need to risk these aircrews on ships that might be raised anyway (AND are of questionable value to begin with)? What you certainly want to do is sink ships at sea, where they can't be raised (like the Nevada almost did!). But it seems to me that every aircrew that is lost is a win for the allies in those first dark days (or Sunny ones if you are the Japanese player!). So hitting Pearl many times might have appeal in the near term, does it stand up to long term review? I'm not sure. Just a thought... Hal

This response seems to make sense to me. I'm not sure what the loses (avg) will be in a 2nd strike at the port, but if I'm going to lose several elite pilots then maybe it's not worth it? How much AA will the ports throw up at me? Also, the allied AF going to be damaged enough so that no fighters can fly CAP? These are answers are probably key to know if I should attack again... or just move to other areas like DEI/PH as people have suggested already. Thanks... nice reads.

Ok from the below and since Pearl has AF of size 10, it sounds like I need to do at least 100 damage to the runway for no CAP to be able to fly?

9.4.1 AIRFIELD DAMAGE

'Patrol and CAP Missions may
only be launched from bases with runway damage less than 50+(Airfield Size *5).'

< Message edited by jzardos -- 9/24/2012 9:51:26 PM >

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 9

RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 9:36:11 PM

adsoul64

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As Japanese you want hit the main asset of the enemy. So the big question is what's the main asset? The easier answer is his CVs but no decent Allied player will give the Japanese the chance to locate one of his CVs. So what? If your main goal is - like it should be - delay USN counteroffensive in Central Pacific you should hit enemy cargo and transport TFs. If those ships cannot reach PH not to mention OZ with their vital assets every US offensive is impossible. So move your CVs between WC and PH and just start the slaughter.

(in reply to dr.hal)

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RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 9:45:38 PM

dr.hal

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Pearl's AA is considerable. The fighter problem depends upon the dice... so to speak. Certainly your allied pilots are no match for the Japanese, that's a given, yet even a bad pilot can get lucky and keep in mind that if a fighter gets through the escort, the Kates and Vals are dead meat even for poor pilots. So my first thought would be to do some calculations by viewing the allied side and maybe running the start a few times through turn two and see what happens if you strike again and what damage you get in return. As I indicated on the surface it seems logical to hit Pearl again and again hard. But no matter how hard you hit it, you're not going to get those carriers and by making sure those BBs are done for, you are eliminating a lot of resource and yard problems for the allied player. Bodies can be buried, but casualties have to be cared for.

(in reply to jzardos)

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RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 9:53:38 PM

jzardos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: adsoul64

As Japanese you want hit the main asset of the enemy. So the big question is what's the main asset? The easier answer is his CVs but no decent Allied player will give the Japanese the chance to locate one of his CVs. So what? If your main goal is - like it should be - delay USN counteroffensive in Central Pacific you should hit enemy cargo and transport TFs. If those ships cannot reach PH not to mention OZ with their vital assets every US offensive is impossible. So move your CVs between WC and PH and just start the slaughter.

Well to continue with this logic about any decent allied player, why would he try and move TFs between WC and PH with my KB TF still hanging around to slaughter them? Would he just wait until he has forces to try and push me out of the way?

Thanks

< Message edited by jzardos -- 9/24/2012 9:54:05 PM >

(in reply to adsoul64)

Post #: 12

RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 9:57:03 PM

adsoul64

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First, at the very beginning the area is crowded with Allied TFs. Second, send KB there once and the Allied player will be forced to protect his convoys with huge forces for a while, effectively delaying his deployment in Central Pac / OZ. Please, remember that your goal is delaying Allied moves

< Message edited by adsoul64 -- 9/24/2012 9:58:14 PM >

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RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 10:01:23 PM

Encircled

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You might want to read the AAR with Obvert in, in which he hung around for a second strike, and got caught by the USN going all out for him.

There are dangers to hanging around, but probably not against the AI!

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3101451&mpage=2

(in reply to adsoul64)

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RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 10:56:25 PM

jzardos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

You might want to read the AAR with Obvert in, in which he hung around for a second strike, and got caught by the USN going all out for him.

There are dangers to hanging around, but probably not against the AI!

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3101451&mpage=2

Yikes that is really ugly stuff. What the heck happened? Haven't been able to decipher how allies messed KB TF up so much. They didn't do historical 1st turn... I did. So I know US CV TF are farther away?

Now even more unsure to know what to do against (human) opponent. Guess flipping a coin to stay or go.

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 15

RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/24/2012 11:02:15 PM

btbw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

Well it's against AI for now

Against you need only historical moves or game will be end too fast.
But if you play against human you will meed much more brain and tricks like second strike on PH.

quote:

What should I set my CV fighter, DB, and TB planes to with respect to CAP and TARGET?

Place your CVG in range 7 from PH and some to side from previous position (for decrease chance of surface battle). Order almost all fighters Escort (one group must become CAP with range 0) with range 7 and all Kates port attack range 7, DB must use search range 7 and strike range 4. Groups with high Fatigue and low morale must be used
Fighter - CAP with range 0 60/40 or 70/30.
DB - Naval strike with range 0.
TB - Search in arc to PH, range 7 30/70.
Dont forget set Dont retire for CVG and choose closest friendly base as home port but way to it must dont go close to PH or react and after surface combat will drag you into enemy base.
Move your AO fleet on range 20 from PH and not close to Midway.

quote:

Would a human player leave stuff at Pearl or try and run it away in many different TFs

It depend from experience of player and his agression. Best what can do opponent - it use numerous SCTFs like few CA or DD running on full speed for try catch your CVs.
Your main target is PH with still alive BBs, then CVs (hide in Wake/Palmyra/Suva/Penhrynn/Christmas or somewhere, i send all subs which initially stay around PH and dont have planes to recon enemy bases) and after it incoming supply fleet from SD/SF.

quote:

I know there's lots of planes on the AF, should I being doing AF attacks too?

If you kill hunting TFs around PH then you can try close to range 6 and use your DB on AF attack (especially if you plan continue attack on next day/s and dont know ehere enemy CVs).

quote:

How much AA will the ports throw up at me?

AA on second day very low because almost all units with it have high fatigue and disruption. You will lose only a few planes but sunk a few capital ships. Any BB which left become additional asspain in future invasion because you have not much BB for kill it in surface battle, not much a planes for even hit it (enemy CAP have much more fighters and 1942 AA improve make BBs killing machine for Kates/Vals) and dont have any CD gun for hurt during invasion.

quote:

Also, the allied AF going to be damaged enough so that no fighters can fly CAP?

You can meet 10-40 enemy fighters over target but it not problem for your Zeros. Another trick is use long range sweep (place KB on range 9 and use almost all fighters for sweep on 15k) while other planes hunt enemy SCTFs running to you (DB on naval strike with range 6, TB search range 7 50/50).

< Message edited by btbw -- 9/24/2012 11:13:49 PM >

(in reply to jzardos)

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RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/25/2012 1:46:28 AM

Liebestod

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Can't the allied player just flee the port with all his ships on turn 2? If he does that how will you sink anything with your day 2 port strike besides ships already hit and unable to move?

(in reply to btbw)

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RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/25/2012 2:56:38 AM

ADB123

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Liebestod

Can't the allied player just flee the port with all his ships on turn 2? If he does that how will you sink anything with your day 2 port strike besides ships already hit and unable to move?

Ah, the "roaches with the lights on" approach - my favourite. Make up a couple of dozen TFs according to speed, lead with ASW TFs, send out the PTs in the direction the KB was last seen, and allow the Weather to take care of the rest. Just make certain to send out your TFs in different directions that are generally away from the KB.

Also, move your surviving Cats to every nearby base that has some Air Support and set them to 100% Search - you want to keep an eye on the KB so that you can change directions of the "roaches" as the KB moves.

It leaves an interesting question for the Japanese player - just how much CAP and Naval Attack capability must be left in place, and how much to spend on more Port Attacks?

(in reply to Liebestod)

Post #: 18

RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/25/2012 9:48:19 AM

Miller

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Day 1 & 2 - PH attacks.

Day 3-5 - Move to support Wake invasion.

Day 6-End of Dec - Replenish at Truk, then cover Rabual/Port Moresby/Tulagi invasions/Convoy hunting off Aus/NZ/Pago Pago area.

Jan 42 - Move into SRA area to cover all operations there.

(in reply to ADB123)

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RE: What to do with KB after t1? - 9/25/2012 11:17:46 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Day 1 & 2 - PH attacks.

Day 3-5 - Move to support Wake invasion.

Day 6-End of Dec - Replenish at Truk, then cover Rabual/Port Moresby/Tulagi invasions/Convoy hunting off Aus/NZ/Pago Pago area.

Jan 42 - Move into SRA area to cover all operations there.

+1

After PH strike and the cover of Wake landings, the KB cannot do much in the pacific... the allies will flee all the way south and all you do is burn precious fuel in those useless raiding trips.

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 20