Matrix Games Forums

Join the Matrix Team at Historicon!Recruiting Privates for Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941!Ageod takes you back to the Civil War Battle Academy iPad and PC 50 per cent off!Close Combat Last Stand Arnhem v5.60.53 update Allied Corps Walkthrough playlist and AARConflict of Heroes: Ghost Divisions Released!Pandora Beta Playthrough VideosGermany at War: Barbarossa 1941 Announced!Great Battles Medieval coming to your tablet with a 50 per cent off launch sale!		 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

WEEK 11

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> WEEK 11 Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
WEEK 11 - 10/29/2012 1:47:39 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 794
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online 		WEEK 11 - 8/28/41

The AAR is now updated to the current situation.

Things are continuing to go in Saper's favor. Overall Red Army losses surpass 2 million and 80 rifle divisions destroyed. His advance to Leningrad is slowed a bit but the Germans are moving ever closer to the vital rail link supplying Leningrad.



North of Moscow, he continues to hold his pocket and threatens to envelop Moscow.



The worst blow is that he raids the rail lines behind Tula by driving north and cuts off the evacuation of the 29 arms factories there. As a small consolation, I pull all 15 vehicle factories from Moscow that should insure adequate tank and mech corps down the road (assuming we get that far )

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 31
RE: WEEK 10 - 10/29/2012 1:52:10 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 794
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

You fighting at all in the south? To be that far south that early is not possible unless you simply are not fighting?

If he can push on to Stalingrad then hes found a way around .13 for sure. As the railhead on turn 8 is 270 miles west of D-town.

I have seen in one of my games and I have to check the others now 3 panzer HQ's with 500+ fuel in them(42), which is not possible even after build ups now if .13 is working.

Mybee something is just plain broken as the railheads in the south are way past 20 hexes from the front, so fuel should be very low under normal .13.

But if for some reason HQ's are holding more then 200 pts of fuel now then muling is back and so are run away 41's again.




Yes, I am fighting in the south. In fact I've made some successful attacks north, center and south. But with my thinning units, I risk encirclement with these units. Here is a shot of his units and in some cases I've indicated the Off Rail MP and Off Rail Range next to some of his units in order to give you an idea how far ahead of his railheads he is operating.


(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 32
RE: WEEK 10 - 10/29/2012 4:03:19 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4379
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		To look at this and not think something is "odd" one would have to be a complete moron.

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 33
RE: WEEK 10 - 10/29/2012 5:52:39 AM   
Baelfiin

 

Posts: 1252
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		How much air supply is flying in for those guys way out on the point?

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 34
RE: WEEK 10 - 10/29/2012 6:17:24 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 761
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

How much air supply is flying in for those guys way out on the point?



Excellent question Baelfiin, I would like to know the answer to this myself. Saper and I are wrapping up our current game and about to start a new one and I must admit I am very worried.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 35
RE: WEEK 10 - 10/29/2012 6:25:38 AM   
76mm


Posts: 1706
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline 		Yikes, he is really moving...

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 36
RE: WEEK 10 - 10/29/2012 10:13:38 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 1931
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		Perhaps Goring traveled to the future and brought back large transport planes that can carry panzers.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 37
RE: WEEK 10 - 10/29/2012 3:53:42 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 794
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online 		Here are the air missions he has flown for the last three turns. You can see he actively attacks airfields and is even bombing Stalingrad.


(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 38
RE: WEEK 7 - 10/29/2012 4:24:40 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 794
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

HQs caught in pockets are supposed to displace, not get destroyed.

Maybe you can look at the list of destroyed units, turn by turn, and list the HQs from there.


I reviewed the logs, and they were all miscellaneous air commands, i.e. Volga, Black Sea Fleet, etc.


< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 10/29/2012 4:25:16 PM >

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 39
RE: Turn 1 - 10/29/2012 7:28:52 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 761
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

North



Center



South







I have now received my first turn from Saper and, in my opinion, he has slightly improved on his above opening aginst you, particularly in the south. For example he has already captured not only Rovno, but also Proskurov.

Looking at the screen shot above it looks like you were able to move the 57th tank division which is usually frozen 5 hexes ESE of Rovno. How were you able to do this?

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 40
RE: Turn 1 - 10/30/2012 12:03:04 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 794
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online 		The 57th Tank Division assigned to STAVKA was in a reserve state and not frozen. I don't recall ever seeing units frozen in that area before.

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 41
RE: Turn 1 - 10/30/2012 1:09:41 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 761
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Really, my experience in all my games is that the 57th tank division (yes it is assigned to STAVKA) is always frozen in place (ie 0 mps) on the first turn. I thought maybe it was activated in your case because he ended his turn with a unit only 3 hexes away. In my case I think he converted a hex within 3 of the unit, but his nearest unit was 4 hexes away. I'll have to check when I get home from work.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 42
RE: Turn 1 - 10/30/2012 11:31:22 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 1143
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

[





I have now received my first turn from Saper and, in my opinion, he has slightly improved on his above opening aginst you, particularly in the south. For example he has already captured not only Rovno, but also Proskurov.

Looking at the screen shot above it looks like you were able to move the 57th tank division which is usually frozen 5 hexes ESE of Rovno. How were you able to do this?


I used to be able to do that opening but I thought that had been stopped by T1 rule changes a while back. I haven't played as german for a while so have not tested it. I thought I saw a recent AAR of Michael T's where he scaled back from this after the rule change but no doubt he can correct/confirm if he reads this.



It would appear rule changes did not do a good enough job. M60 is no noob, and it is taking the piss a bit if germans can still do this sort of thing; Pelton please note - but I see that he has..................

_____________________________

web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 43
RE: Turn 11 - 10/31/2012 12:05:23 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 794
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online 		Well he's making me feel as though I'm in noob school again.

Maybe I'll give him something to think about if he bombs Stalingrad again. 150 fighters on two bases are now waiting nearby.



The STAVKA Strategic Reserve is being held back near Saratov despite the need for front line divisions.


(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 44
RE: Turn 11 - 10/31/2012 12:41:27 AM   
smokindave34


Posts: 397
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline 		I've never seen anything quite like this. The closest thing was when Michael T pushed me all the way back to Stalingrad in '41 - but that was a while back when muling was still allowed. Even then I don't believe he was at Rostov on turn 11! And with infantry as well!

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 45
RE: Turn 11 - 10/31/2012 1:36:46 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1575
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online 		Under the most up to date version of the game such advances are possible if you throw every LB and Transport at one PzGp (and use them for nothing other than refuelling) and rotate Pz Cp HQ's (a form of chaining, but more involved) in a complex and AP hungry method. But I don't see how it could be maintained for so long on so many axis' of advance. I cannot explain it.

The opening in the south is possible. It is the scaled back version. Albeit an inefficient one.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to smokindave34)
Post #: 46
RE: Turn 11 - 10/31/2012 2:18:27 AM   
forsyth

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 12/23/2011
Status: offline 		It's most likely from using most of the Luftwaffe for refueling like Michael T said. Check out these turn 10 screenshots from a current game.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by forsyth -- 10/31/2012 6:57:11 PM >

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 47
RE: Turn 11 - 10/31/2012 2:25:02 AM   
forsyth

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 12/23/2011
Status: offline 		second shot




Attachment (1)

(in reply to forsyth)
Post #: 48
RE: Turn 11 - 10/31/2012 9:23:27 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4379
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Under the most up to date version of the game such advances are possible if you throw every LB and Transport at one PzGp (and use them for nothing other than refuelling) and rotate Pz Cp HQ's (a form of chaining, but more involved) in a complex and AP hungry method. But I don't see how it could be maintained for so long on so many axis' of advance. I cannot explain it.

The opening in the south is possible. It is the scaled back version. Albeit an inefficient one.


Not sure thats even possible MT. If you look at rail head and where units were (turn 8), the airbases would be out of reach of supplies also. To be withen 20 Mp's, the distance from the airbase to front line HQ's is to far to beable to drop enough supplies to matter.


_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 49
RE: Turn 11 - 10/31/2012 9:24:03 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 1931
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		Suppose you can trying bombing the Luftwaffe HQ's? ( if you agreed to allowing HQ bombing )

(in reply to forsyth)
Post #: 50
RE: Turn 11 - 10/31/2012 9:29:24 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4379
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Same goes for forsyth screen shot, airbases are far past railheads. Planes dont have the fuel to fly more then a single mission, in M60 game your talking next to Rostov turn 8. Which only means 7 turns of rail conversion.

Even with muling ect before .13 I was able to just make Stalino with a single raiding panzer unit, then follow up with more on turn 8 to clear a path to it.

Up until this screen shot, I beleive I was the only AAR posted that had anyone getting to Stalion on turn 7.

After .13 its easyer? Just doesn't fly in my book as possible after .13 and sht even before very hard.

Also next to Moscow turn 8? The best I have seen was several guys next to Moscow on turn 9 before .13.

M60 is a solid SHC player also, so its not like he let GHC just run wild.

Whats going on is hardly even possible doing muling/airbase depots ect ect, under current .13 ruleset its not possible.

Its kinda like when you play someone and they win 18-0 battles in 1942 as SHC for 6 turns in a row.

18-0
13-0
19-0
15-0
17-0
21-0

I am stupid, but not that stupid.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/31/2012 9:40:35 AM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 51
RE: Turn 11 - 10/31/2012 9:50:07 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 1143
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: London
Status: offline 		@ M60 I hope you play the next game ( if you still want to play him again) on the server. It can be accessed from Russia so you can allay any concerns Saper has about that

_____________________________

web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 52
RE: Turn 11 - 10/31/2012 12:43:26 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 1173
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Lund, Sweden
Status: offline 		M60: Why not simply ask Saper222 how he is doing it?

(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 53
RE: Turn 11 - 10/31/2012 12:50:03 PM   
TulliusDetritus

 

Posts: 3810
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Back to Reality :(
Status: offline 		This is simply ridiculous. I would give up. And yes, at least Saper is doing something positive: something should be fixed.

_____________________________



"Block is very important. If you think block is useless now it's ok. If you don't like block, why don't you take it with your face...?" -- Kung Fu master

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 54
Collapse - 10/31/2012 12:59:51 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 794
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online 		Well I held out a couple more turns than Speedy.

Moscow was surrounded and the rail to Leningrad cut. He's pretty much gotten around 75-80% of my army.

I've offered to surrender as there's no point continuing.

How he's doing it, I don't know. Using the Luftwaffe as a flying gas station is the right strategy when the ground units already have such a superiority in combat values. Adding them to ground support missions is almost superfluous.

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 55
RE: Collapse - 10/31/2012 1:11:13 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 794
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online 		After moving a few units...

Leningrad



Moscow


(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 56
RE: Collapse - 10/31/2012 2:00:53 PM   
forsyth

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 12/23/2011
Status: offline 		Regarding Pelton's comment about airbase distance from railhead:

Level bombers can only fly one resupply/refuel mission per turn anyway, right?



(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 57
RE: Collapse - 10/31/2012 4:01:03 PM   
Baelfiin

 

Posts: 1252
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		I dont think it matters where your airbases are in relation to the railhead anyway for flying fuel and supply somewhere else

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha

(in reply to forsyth)
Post #: 58
RE: Collapse - 10/31/2012 4:14:45 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 761
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: forsyth

Regarding Pelton's comment about airbase distance from railhead:

Level bombers can only fly one resupply/refuel mission per turn anyway, right?




forsyth,

In reference to your screen shots above showing your German forces by turn 10 at or near Rostov and Tambov, would you be willing to give more information on how this was done? Was it really accomplished by just the extensive use of the Luftwaffe for refueling or were their some other tricks you're willing to share? Was the game played aginst the AI or a human opponent? If the latter was he competent? How were you able to overcome the problem of the level bombers only being able to fly one resupply mission per turn, or was this a problem? Were the aircraft themselves flying from bases more than 20mp from a railhead? If so was this a problem? Were you making similar progress from Moscow north using the same tactic, or were you limited to just just being able to do this in one area? Is there any way your opponent could have prevented this? Since I am now up against the same thing myself any advice you can give would be appreciated.

(in reply to forsyth)
Post #: 59
RE: Collapse - 10/31/2012 5:20:48 PM   
forsyth

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 12/23/2011
Status: offline 		The game is against a human.

I have done 4 buildups (only 1 for 1st Panzer Group and that was around turn 4). The level bombers work even with only 1 mission because there are so many more of them than Ju52s.

I try to keep the airbases within 10 hexes and 25mp of railheads for maximum supply but you have to go further as the front moves. By turn 10 the airbase supply/fuel levels in unit have fallen to 50-70%. The missions were flown from lots of different airbase supply distances. I have often thought it is sort of silly how a unit can have little fuel but if in the same hex as an airbase with plenty of fuel the planes can transfer it fine (very inefficiently) but the unit at the airbase couldn't get it otherwise. On the flipside, how much fuel/supply should an airbase be able to carry around?

My progress in the north is as good or better.

Regarding stopping it I will say this far from the railheads the pace is brutal to maintain. I have ideas on what to do though :)








< Message edited by forsyth -- 10/31/2012 6:05:46 PM >

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> WEEK 11 Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.102