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RE: Night bombing status update?

 
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RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 4:41:45 PM   
AW1Steve


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Why is it that the 1st thought that always strikes me whenever I read one of these "this game is borked" threads (which this did NOT start out as one , merely CB soliciting information) is "why do we bother playing?" .

Reading this thread also raises a lot of questions to me. For example..."how borked is it?". I've not seen anyone citing recent "this happened to me examples". Another question is "were you overstacked?". We've seen just how deadly this can be. "Atomic bombardments" are devastating. They are also quite plausible. So can daytime bombings. Why wouldn't night? In a small field , a lucky bomb would be devastating to crammed together aircraft. You don't need a 500-1000 pound bomb. A monkey with a hand grenade could do it.

Another complaint is that B-17's are devastating to Japanese fighters at night. Well, they certainly were in daytime. (I suggest one read Saki's account in Samuri of his unit attacking Colin Kelly's B-17D and the frustration they had in trying to bring down this single , underarmed plane. ) Imagine attacking a box of B-17E's at night, where NOT having the advantage of being able to plan your attack, you suddenly blunder into range of 20-30 50 cal MG's. In an Oscar. Sounds like flying confetti to me.

The point I want to make is have we really exaimined the "problem" to make sure that there is , indeed, a problem? And by problem , I don't mean an unpleasant result from our point of view. Or are we , once again visualizing a problem because "it's always been there". Just because someone got his behind "toasted" in UV ten years ago doesn't mean 1) that there is necessarily a flaw in the game or 2) that it hasn't been fixed in the litterly thousands of fixes,patches, and other adjustments to the game.

Has anyone recently done a study or experiment on this issue? Was one ever done?

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

(in reply to Schanilec)
Post #: 31
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 5:03:24 PM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Why is it that the 1st thought that always strikes me whenever I read one of these "this game is borked" threads (which this did NOT start out as one , merely CB soliciting information) is "why do we bother playing?" .


Because your being way too serious. This isn't a "ITS BORKED" thread. CB asked a question. He got an answer. The Devs have known for a long time that Night Bombing has some issues. It was improved a bit. However game "development" ended long ago. Bug fixes are now pursued on a strictly volunteer basis by MichaelM. Occasionally he'll throw in an easter egg or two and tweak things minorly. However major game changes. No.

As such, "player" views on Night bombing have variance. Hence some use House rules, some don't. And amongst the HR's....approaches can and are different from player to player. As long as both sides are satisfied with how their playing, its all good.

AE will never be perfect. But its overall a good product. Otherwise people wouldn't play it.

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 32
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 5:40:42 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
The point I want to make is have we really exaimined the "problem" to make sure that there is , indeed, a problem? And by problem , I don't mean an unpleasant result from our point of view. Or are we , once again visualizing a problem because "it's always been there". Just because someone got his behind "toasted" in UV ten years ago doesn't mean 1) that there is necessarily a flaw in the game or 2) that it hasn't been fixed in the litterly thousands of fixes,patches, and other adjustments to the game.


It's a fair question to ask, Steve. I haven't had a major problem with my limited experience in the game. I think that's in large part to the fact that my long-term opponent and I have heeded the observations and recommendations of others that preceeded us.

Early on, it was uber-PT boats (we didn't experience it, but others vocalized their concerns to devs and this got 'fixed' tootsweet). Then it was artillery (we didn't experience it-OK maybe a little-but others vocalized their concerns to devs and this got 'fixed' tootsweet). There have been other changes championed by well-intentioned players and implemented by well-intentioned programmers / developers.

I didn't come up with the suggestions to HRs, but have been responsive to the observations of those that preceeded me. If their logic and experiences match mine own, perhaps their implementation of HRs for gameplay balance may be worth considering. At least that's the way I approach this.

Now, I *HAVE* experienced huge mega-sized Allied 4EB daytime raids on my airfields, turning my planes and base personnel into grease spots. I'm OK with that. I mean, as a JFB player, I hate getting my airfields nuked, but that's a feasible outcome that is (reasonably) well modeled in the game to which I have some potential defenses.

If the bombing outcome is consistently less well modeled at night (as expressed by the opinion of some of the other posters above), and designer / programmer interdiction is unlikely, then a game-by-game decision by well-intentioned partners may needs be considered.

I think this discussion hinges on what one's definition of a 'problem' is-first and foremost. Is your definition of a problem limited to that which a developer / programmer gives the nod to? Or is it one that is a 'problem' for gameplay as experienced by others? Aye-therein lies the rub, mate.

_____________________________


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Post #: 33
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 5:47:54 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Why is it that the 1st thought that always strikes me whenever I read one of these "this game is borked" threads (which this did NOT start out as one , merely CB soliciting information) is "why do we bother playing?" .


Because your being way too serious. This isn't a "ITS BORKED" thread. CB asked a question. He got an answer. The Devs have known for a long time that Night Bombing has some issues. It was improved a bit. However game "development" ended long ago. Bug fixes are now pursued on a strictly volunteer basis by MichaelM. Occasionally he'll throw in an easter egg or two and tweak things minorly. However major game changes. No.

As such, "player" views on Night bombing have variance. Hence some use House rules, some don't. And amongst the HR's....approaches can and are different from player to player. As long as both sides are satisfied with how their playing, its all good.

AE will never be perfect. But its overall a good product. Otherwise people wouldn't play it.



Well , the opening line worked, as it got your attention. I'm sorry the rest of the post didn't hold it. I said that it didn't start out as one. (A borked thread). I suggested it was turning into one. Let me be less subtle. It is turning into one.

what I was asking was basically, HAS THIS PROBLEM BEEN CONFIRMED? And also WHAT RESEARCH HAS BEEN DONE ON IT?

The questions have nothing to do with "Your being too serious". It has everything to do with "IS IT REALLY A PROBLEM"? You say that the "Dev's have long known" about this problem. OK. Is there any discussion on the forum , that you are aware of that is pertinent to this issue? Or are you speaking as one of the developement team? (I'm not being a smartass, I really don't know. Were you a developer? --If so , let me divert for a second and say Thank you!).

Basically I'm only asking the same question that I ask everytime someone complains about an issue...Is this still an issue? And what do we know about it? Or rather , how can I find out more about what has been said/done/researched/explored already?

< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 9/18/2012 5:49:19 PM >


_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

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Post #: 34
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 5:49:44 PM   
aaffins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
Another complaint is that B-17's are devastating to Japanese fighters at night. Well, they certainly were in daytime. (I suggest one read Saki's account in Samuri of his unit attacking Colin Kelly's B-17D and the frustration they had in trying to bring down this single , underarmed plane. ) Imagine attacking a box of B-17E's at night, where NOT having the advantage of being able to plan your attack, you suddenly blunder into range of 20-30 50 cal MG's. In an Oscar. Sounds like flying confetti to me.


My previous comment wasn't meant as a complaint, just an observation of where the results were very different from what I was expecting. Intercepting 4E's during daylight with A6M2s seems to yield about a 1:1 kill ratio. Intercepting with Ki-45s seems to improve that to about 2.5:1. So when I intercepted at night and lost 4 Ki-45s and 6 A6M3s (flown by 75+ exp pilots) without downing a single bomber I thought that seemed odd. Now granted I have not experimented with this, it could be I just had one very unlucky result, but it was one of the stranger results I've gotten in several years of playing this game.

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 35
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 6:24:04 PM   
Puhis

 

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I did not mean to turn this into Borked thread. I feel that night bombing have issues. For example it was too effective, and players could easily fly massive night raids even in 1942. Latest patch changed night bombing. Now there's coordination penalty, and planes can get lost and miss the target. Because we are now using HR limiting night bombing, I don't know how latest patch can handle massive night raids.

I feel that with HR night bombing works fine and more historical way. In my game night bombing is usually rather ineffective, but sometimes there's some success. Nothing too serious.

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 36
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 6:28:57 PM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

what I was asking was basically, HAS THIS PROBLEM BEEN CONFIRMED? And also WHAT RESEARCH HAS BEEN DONE ON IT?

The questions have nothing to do with "Your being too serious". It has everything to do with "IS IT REALLY A PROBLEM"? You say that the "Dev's have long known" about this problem. OK. Is there any discussion on the forum , that you are aware of that is pertinent to this issue? Or are you speaking as one of the developement team? (I'm not being a smartass, I really don't know. Were you a developer? --If so , let me divert for a second and say Thank you!).

Basically I'm only asking the same question that I ask everytime someone complains about an issue...Is this still an issue? And what do we know about it? Or rather , how can I find out more about what has been said/done/researched/explored already?



I'm speaking as myself. Since I was a developer, you can take that as "speaking as a developer" I've also been playing working modding the game since Uncommon Valor days so its all wrapped into one where I am concerned. I am not at liberty to speak on behalf of the ENTIRE Dev team nor am I an official spokesperson. (the closest to that would be Joe Wilkerson) As with players, opinions vary somewhat between dev members. You've heard me mention "Joe" JoeWilk was a dev and Project manager. He and I both came up with the HR on nightbombing together. If Joe didn't share similar feelings about NB then there would have been no house rule in our games since we only HR'd items we mutally agreed needed them. So you have at least two devs who felt NB had some "issues" I can disclose this because its public knowledge. The last AAR we did together clearly lists our HR's on page one. I've not discusssed it in depth with Ian, the air team lead though IIRC he also wanted to "do" things about NB but there were only so many items that could be addressed when AE was in pre-release development. NB took a low position on the totem pole in favor of greater concerns. You can email him for his views if you like. Yes i have done homework on the issue. I've done alot of homework in the past few years on air ops in general. Partially for WitP. Partially for my own interest. That doesn't make my views God like, but i'd like to think they are at least "informed"

Hence.....I do play with a HR to curb night bombing in the game.


(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 37
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 6:52:45 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

what I was asking was basically, HAS THIS PROBLEM BEEN CONFIRMED? And also WHAT RESEARCH HAS BEEN DONE ON IT?

The questions have nothing to do with "Your being too serious". It has everything to do with "IS IT REALLY A PROBLEM"? You say that the "Dev's have long known" about this problem. OK. Is there any discussion on the forum , that you are aware of that is pertinent to this issue? Or are you speaking as one of the development team? (I'm not being a smartass, I really don't know. Were you a developer? --If so , let me divert for a second and say Thank you!).

Basically I'm only asking the same question that I ask everytime someone complains about an issue...Is this still an issue? And what do we know about it? Or rather , how can I find out more about what has been said/done/researched/explored already?



I'm speaking as myself. Since I was a developer, you can take that as "speaking as a developer" I've also been playing working modding the game since Uncommon Valor days so its all wrapped into one where I am concerned. I am not at liberty to speak on behalf of the ENTIRE Dev team nor am I an official spokesperson. (the closest to that would be Joe Wilkerson) As with players, opinions vary somewhat between dev members. You've heard me mention "Joe" JoeWilk was a dev and Project manager. He and I both came up with the HR on nightbombing together. If Joe didn't share similar feelings about NB then there would have been no house rule in our games since we only HR'd items we mutally agreed needed them. So you have at least two devs who felt NB had some "issues" I can disclose this because its public knowledge. The last AAR we did together clearly lists our HR's on page one. I've not discusssed it in depth with Ian, the air team lead though IIRC he also wanted to "do" things about NB but there were only so many items that could be addressed when AE was in pre-release development. NB took a low position on the totem pole in favor of greater concerns. You can email him for his views if you like. Yes i have done homework on the issue. I've done alot of homework in the past few years on air ops in general. Partially for WitP. Partially for my own interest. That doesn't make my views God like, but i'd like to think they are at least "informed"

Hence.....I do play with a HR to curb night bombing in the game.





You might not consider being a devloper as being God-like, but to we , your worshippers.... I would consider your view to be much more than informed, I'd consider you an authority! (And be forewarned! Now I know who to contact when I need an "informed" opinion! ). And again, thank you , both for your work on this game that means so much to us, and for your continued assistance!

Andre and I came up with rule. No large scale night bombing till 30 June 1943.After that no restrictions. Prior to that , no more than 24 planes , only bombing when moon is 50% or greater. Does that sound reasonable to you?

As I hadn't been convinced that it was a problem (I am now) I'd argued that the RAF had been doing strategic night bombing since 1941 en masse , there was no reason they couldn't do it by 1943 in the IO. I also intended it to be Night strategic bombing (Although airfields are pretty easy to hit , so air fields could be hit). I had in mind Wellingtons, Liberators, B-24's and later B-29s. Andre and I try to be as "historically reasonable" (that is , not to do the same thing that was historically done, but what was reasonably historically possible). Would that fit in with what you would consider a reasonable house rule?

< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 9/18/2012 7:02:15 PM >


_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 38
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 7:03:10 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
Another complaint is that B-17's are devastating to Japanese fighters at night. Well, they certainly were in daytime. (I suggest one read Saki's account in Samuri of his unit attacking Colin Kelly's B-17D and the frustration they had in trying to bring down this single , underarmed plane. ) Imagine attacking a box of B-17E's at night, where NOT having the advantage of being able to plan your attack, you suddenly blunder into range of 20-30 50 cal MG's. In an Oscar. Sounds like flying confetti to me.


My previous comment wasn't meant as a complaint, just an observation of where the results were very different from what I was expecting. Intercepting 4E's during daylight with A6M2s seems to yield about a 1:1 kill ratio. Intercepting with Ki-45s seems to improve that to about 2.5:1. So when I intercepted at night and lost 4 Ki-45s and 6 A6M3s (flown by 75+ exp pilots) without downing a single bomber I thought that seemed odd. Now granted I have not experimented with this, it could be I just had one very unlucky result, but it was one of the stranger results I've gotten in several years of playing this game.


Out of curiousity , what were the moonlight conditions?

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 39
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 7:45:58 PM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
You might not consider being a devloper as being God-like, but to we , your worshippers.... I would consider your view to be much more than informed, I'd consider you an authority! (And be forewarned! Now I know who to contact when I need an "informed" opinion! ). And again, thank you , both for your work on this game that means so much to us, and for your continued assistance!



Aww......warm fuzzy feelings.

quote:



Andre and I came up with rule. No large scale night bombing till 30 June 1943.After that no restrictions. Prior to that , no more than 24 planes , only bombing when moon is 50% or greater. Does that sound reasonable to you?


Yes. a number of players have similar rules. I know Joe wanted a tighter restriction because in some of our games we saw very metholodical destruction of assets (death by slow attrition) by even small numbers of planes (particularily B-17's with their large bomb loads). For example, daily NB visits to Rabaul would many times often hit the airfield enough to destroy a plane or two. By itself that wasn't much, but repeated night by night it added up and gave him coniptions.

quote:


As I hadn't been convinced that it was a problem (I am now) I'd argued that the RAF had been doing strategic night bombing since 1941 en masse , there was no reason they couldn't do it by 1943 in the IO. I also intended it to be Night strategic bombing (Although airfields are pretty easy to hit , so air fields could be hit). I had in mind Wellingtons, Liberators, B-24's and later B-29s. Andre and I try to be as "historically reasonable" (that is , not to do the same thing that was historically done, but what was reasonably historically possible). Would that fit in with what you would consider a reasonable house rule?


Yes, the RAF had been doing it actually since 1939-40 after it was deemed too costly to stage [unescorted] day raids. However the 39-41 period was one largely of learning the hard way and the attacks, against city sized targets, was largely ineffective. Tactical targets were out of the question. WitP makes tactical targeting of airfields, ports, anchored ships and LCU's (night or day) [basically anything coupled with a "Base"] far more easy than it was in RL in general. If you'd like a taste of this, read Fortress Against the Sun. Its very enlightening to see how and why the B-17's in the SRA were used and how effective they "thought" they were being bombing stationary targets, even in the daytime much less at night. In reality it was extremely difficult, variable in actual rsults (claiming was consistant) and exhausting to both men and machines.

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Post #: 40
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 9:41:21 PM   
aaffins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
Another complaint is that B-17's are devastating to Japanese fighters at night. Well, they certainly were in daytime. (I suggest one read Saki's account in Samuri of his unit attacking Colin Kelly's B-17D and the frustration they had in trying to bring down this single , underarmed plane. ) Imagine attacking a box of B-17E's at night, where NOT having the advantage of being able to plan your attack, you suddenly blunder into range of 20-30 50 cal MG's. In an Oscar. Sounds like flying confetti to me.


My previous comment wasn't meant as a complaint, just an observation of where the results were very different from what I was expecting. Intercepting 4E's during daylight with A6M2s seems to yield about a 1:1 kill ratio. Intercepting with Ki-45s seems to improve that to about 2.5:1. So when I intercepted at night and lost 4 Ki-45s and 6 A6M3s (flown by 75+ exp pilots) without downing a single bomber I thought that seemed odd. Now granted I have not experimented with this, it could be I just had one very unlucky result, but it was one of the stranger results I've gotten in several years of playing this game.


Out of curiousity , what were the moonlight conditions?


Is there a way to check that from the ops reports and/or combat reports? It does say clear sky, but I believe that's weather related, not moonlight.

Here is the combat summary:

Night Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 33
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 13



Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 8


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 3 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 3 damaged



Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Tainan Ku S-1 with A6M3 Zero (33 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
33 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 6000
Raid is overhead
13th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (13 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Raid is overhead

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 41
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/18/2012 9:58:39 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

Is there a way to check that from the ops reports and/or combat reports? It does say clear sky, but I believe that's weather related, not moonlight.


Moonlight status should be on the front (main) map page-on the status bar below the buttons, near the top.

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Post #: 42
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/19/2012 4:10:26 AM   
aaffins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

Is there a way to check that from the ops reports and/or combat reports? It does say clear sky, but I believe that's weather related, not moonlight.


Moonlight status should be on the front (main) map page-on the status bar below the buttons, near the top.


Right, but this turn is from a few weeks ago, any way to check without reloading that save?

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 43
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/19/2012 6:35:23 AM   
aztez

 

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Night bombing is working just fine.

Well, at least if you target only manpower and NOT specific factories etc.

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Post #: 44
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/20/2012 6:16:31 PM   
Lecivius


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And to follow up, is fire bombing still pretty much ineffective ?

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RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/20/2012 7:54:21 PM   
Numdydar

 

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We are in March '44 (I am Japan) and after both us us used night raids for a while, came to the conclusion that night bombing is too messed up to even bother with. So we just agreed to not use it at all. Makes things simpler all around Neither of us has missed having it and really do not see it as having a major impact on the game.

Also remember, the reason that night bombing was used at all was so the planes and crews would have less losses than daylight raids would have had. As we do not have to write letters home, this is not an issue for us. So for my oppenet and I it was much easier to just ban the whole concept. In a game of this complexity, reducing an aspect of it that neither of us seems to have that much of an impact helps move the game along. Of course others may want to do things differently

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Post #: 46
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/20/2012 9:06:45 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

We are in March '44 (I am Japan) and after both us us used night raids for a while, came to the conclusion that night bombing is too messed up to even bother with. So we just agreed to not use it at all. Makes things simpler all around Neither of us has missed having it and really do not see it as having a major impact on the game.

Also remember, the reason that night bombing was used at all was so the planes and crews would have less losses than daylight raids would have had. As we do not have to write letters home, this is not an issue for us. So for my oppenet and I it was much easier to just ban the whole concept. In a game of this complexity, reducing an aspect of it that neither of us seems to have that much of an impact helps move the game along. Of course others may want to do things differently


I don't have a dog in this fight, but I would only insert that you're early. Night bombing has, in my experience, a great effect when strat bombing the HI in the late game. Also completley historical, night bombing manpower at 9000 feet to start fires is much less suicidal than doing the same thing by day.

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Post #: 47
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/21/2012 5:00:00 PM   
Numdydar

 

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In RL this was done to reduce losses. Our pixils, bits and bytes do not care As Japan. I really canot see whether I get bombed at night or durning the day really matters lol.

As I said, other may wish to do things different but for us worrying about moonlight levels, only a certain number of planes etc. seems to over complicate and already complex game for very little real in game benefit. Other than it was doen in RL so we must do it in the game even if we have to create even more rules to do so . That just did not work for us.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 48
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/21/2012 5:45:08 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

In RL this was done to reduce losses. Our pixils, bits and bytes do not care

As the Allied player with a fixed number of B-29s delivered during the war/game you care very much.

As Japan. I really canot see whether I get bombed at night or durning the day really matters lol.

As I said, other may wish to do things different but for us worrying about moonlight levels, only a certain number of planes etc. seems to over complicate and already complex game for very little real in game benefit. Other than it was doen in RL so we must do it in the game even if we have to create even more rules to do so . That just did not work for us.

I'm on record many times as not being in favor of HRs. I only made my comment to illustrate that not many players on either isde ever see 1945. Some things are very different then.



< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 9/21/2012 5:46:17 PM >


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(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 49
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/21/2012 5:53:06 PM   
aphrochine


Posts: 187
Joined: 3/24/2008
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

The results of night bombing are not a problem imo, however the fact the Allied bombers shoot down any night fighters at a rate of 5:1 is...........



I've not seen that. As long as you're not sending Oscars and Zeros against 4Es, IJ shouldnt see those kinds of ratios day or night. Use your heavier bombers.

I've found that since the last patch, night bombers are much less likely to sortie and have a harder time coordinating as well as the 'stray due to night' event that affects them.

Effectiveness depends on a few factors. Airfield strikes devastate overstacked or near limit airfields. Port strikes dont typically do much imo. Strategic bombing is OP, day or night. Our game doesnt have any house rules but it's not very difficult to drop 100-200 points of industry in 2-3 days with a couple dozen 4Es.


Of the note of balance, after the last patch sweeps have been trimmed back a lot. I've seen one (1) coordinated sweep since last patch...making sweeps much easier to deal with for the defending CAP.

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(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 50
RE: Night bombing status update? - 9/21/2012 5:58:59 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8021
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aphrochine

Effectiveness depends on a few factors. Airfield strikes devastate overstacked or near limit airfields. Port strikes dont typically do much imo. Strategic bombing is OP, day or night. Our game doesnt have any house rules but it's not very difficult to drop 100-200 points of industry in 2-3 days with a couple dozen 4Es.



I don't see numbers like this. I just bombed Miri POL from Singapore with 70+ 4Es, B-17s and B-24s, and got 60 points of damage over four days. When I've used B-29s over the HI in previous games I can get 100-200 points with a full effort with my B-29s, say 150 planes, escorted, in two days, but they then need a maintenance stand-down.

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The Moose

(in reply to aphrochine)
Post #: 51
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