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Why Microsoft?

 
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Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 3:54:26 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4886
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		Why do we need to throw away all our old software whenever Microsoft comes out with a new edition of windows? This drives me crazy! I have Windows 7 Home Premium edition 64 bit, which is nice but I can't run half my games on it, including some of my favorites! So I looked into the Windows XP virtual machine. But I need to have Windows Professional edition to use it. What imbecile at Microsoft made that decision? I'd really like to kick him in the teeth! This is positively ridiculous! Microsoft can go to hell!

OK I feel better now that I've gotten that out of my system.
Post #: 1
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 4:55:43 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12684
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: online 		ubuntu linux. Free. Most Windows games don't work in Wine but things are changing.

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 2
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 5:00:03 AM   
cpdeyoung


Posts: 2790
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: online 		Gary,

I have Windows 7/64 and am successfully running everything I have tried. This includes War in the East, Armada 2526, all Doomtrader's games, Unity of Command and WiP/AE.

What sort of problems are you experiencing? Are your older games the focus of the problems?

Chuck

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 3
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 5:10:29 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12684
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: online 		Chuck the Home versions of 7 don't have the XP compatibility layer.

(in reply to cpdeyoung)
Post #: 4
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 6:30:44 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 11035
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Why do we need to throw away all our old software whenever Microsoft comes out with a new edition of windows? This drives me crazy! I have Windows 7 Home Premium edition 64 bit, which is nice but I can't run half my games on it, including some of my favorites! So I looked into the Windows XP virtual machine. But I need to have Windows Professional edition to use it. What imbecile at Microsoft made that decision? I'd really like to kick him in the teeth! This is positively ridiculous! Microsoft can go to hell!

OK I feel better now that I've gotten that out of my system.
warspite1

Yep, been there....rubbish isn't it?


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Post #: 5
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 8:32:07 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2518
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Which game in particular?

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Post #: 6
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 8:34:20 AM   
Kineas

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 4/19/2008
From: Hungary
Status: offline 		Try virtualbox, it's free and you can probably run older games in it.

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Post #: 7
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 10:13:22 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2010
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

ubuntu linux. Free. Most Windows games don't work in Wine but things are changing.

Well, there are always virtual machines for it. I don't use them because I have too slow computer, though (9 years old).

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Post #: 8
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 1:15:19 PM   
Chris Merchant


Posts: 1077
Joined: 4/18/2000
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline 		I coded up my own OS. Does everything I want!

cheers

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Post #: 9
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 1:51:07 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12684
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Merchant

I coded up my own OS. Does everything I want!

cheers


linux based?

I tried VirtualBox with XP in it but it limits video ram to 128mb.

(in reply to Chris Merchant)
Post #: 10
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 4:18:00 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

Posts: 391
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline 		I do dislike the fairly artificial pricing tiers on some MS products. Ran into the problem with Visual Studio just the other day, when the version I bought doesn't support remote debugging (which is a pretty critical part of any IDE IMO) - and you often don't find out what you need until after the fact, and if nothing else (ignoring the money) it would mean reinstalling or updating, meaning wasted time and effort.

I get the business case, but it's very annoying as a user.

Linux just isn't ready for primetime yet, and after the mess they made with Unity or whatever they call the horrible new Ubuntu UI I'm not sure it will be. At least its openness means you can grab a proper desktop that falls back to the proper one if you like.

Cheers

Pip

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 11
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 8:38:39 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4469
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: offline 		That pizza pie I had was smashing.

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Post #: 12
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/13/2012 8:41:19 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		Actually you can run virtual PC (the MS one) you just don't get the 'bundled' XP layer... but you can trivially install XP from a 'dead' machine, plus Dos and anything else you want... and get the same result.

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Post #: 13
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/14/2012 12:13:15 AM   
Joe 98


Posts: 3966
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I have Windows 7 Home Premium edition 64 bit, which is nice but I can't run half my games on it,




Rather than WIN 7 being the problem, 64 bit is most likely the problem.

When we switched fro 8 bit to 16 bit, some 8 bit games did not run

When we switched from 16 bit to 32 bit, some 16 bit games did not run.

You have now switched from 32 bit to 64 bit.............

.
.




(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 14
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/14/2012 1:24:39 AM   
Blond_Knight


Posts: 209
Joined: 5/15/2004
Status: offline 		As Pip said Microsoft's licensing scheme is unecessarily complicated; specifically to cause a business to buy many more licenses than are actually needed to be compliant.

I used Ubuntu server for years in production but after the Mysql password debacle a few months ago, where it was discovered Mysql would accept any password about one in ten times, Im frightful of quality control. Plus the Unity desktop is not designed for desktops but obviously aimed at the tablet market.

< Message edited by Blond_Knight -- 9/14/2012 1:28:20 AM >

(in reply to Joe 98)
Post #: 15
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/14/2012 1:50:19 AM   
Joe D.


Posts: 3177
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Chuck the Home versions of 7 don't have the XP compatibility layer.


So you can't go to "start, all programs, exec file, compatability" and then adjust according?

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Post #: 16
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/14/2012 1:51:24 AM   
hadberz


Posts: 1035
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: SW Missouri, but live in Charleston SC
Status: offline 		Joe is correct. The issues I have had were not the games, but the installer being 16 bit. Warlords 3 for example would not install on Win 7, but installing it on Win XP 32 bit and then coping the game files over to Win 7 64 bit solved that issue. 32 bit games should run on 64 bit since it is for the most part backward compatible, but there is no chance for 16 bit to work.

To clarify, I mean windows games, dosbox should work fine with dos games.

< Message edited by hadberz -- 9/14/2012 1:55:07 AM >

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Post #: 17
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/14/2012 1:51:31 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12684
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: online 		I actually like the Unity desktop. My daughter's IMac has the left side icons that jump out when you mouse over them. I have Unity launcher set to just sit there and behave. I don't own a tablet. Windows 8 Metro looks worse.

(in reply to Blond_Knight)
Post #: 18
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/14/2012 11:33:20 AM   
Joe D.


Posts: 3177
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline 		Let me see if I understand this; Win 7 64-bit isn't that compatible with most 32-bit software sims, but the Win 7 64-bit Pro version is?

So you can run older 32-bit XP compat games on a Win 7 machine meant for business, but not on the "Home" version model?

Shouldn't that be the other way 'round?

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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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Post #: 19
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/14/2012 12:46:53 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		You can still have an XP virtual machine. It just uses an existing XP license, rather than sharing the Win7 64 pro one. Otherwise works the same once set up. Even uses the Win7 virtual machine that MS uses for the 'compatibility layer' MS doesn't publicise this possibility because it wants you to pay out again (and possibly in some jurisdictions the EULA preventing re-use of XP once the original machine has some technical validity (in the EU I think that has been dismissed for 'full' versions rather than OEM) still MS would rather you 'believe' the EULA even if it isn't binding... and I have had no trouble moving a single copy of XP over several generations of replacement machines & activating it).

However IANAL, and your local rules may be different.

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 20
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/14/2012 6:50:30 PM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1905
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Let me see if I understand this; Win 7 64-bit isn't that compatible with most 32-bit software sims, but the Win 7 64-bit Pro version is?

So you can run older 32-bit XP compat games on a Win 7 machine meant for business, but not on the "Home" version model?

Shouldn't that be the other way 'round?



Microsoft never touted "XP mode" for playing old games. Too many variables. It was all about reassuring businesses that their software would still run if they switched to Win 7.

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 21
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/14/2012 8:49:55 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25219
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Why do we need to throw away all our old software whenever Microsoft comes out with a new edition of windows? This drives me crazy! I have Windows 7 Home Premium edition 64 bit, which is nice but I can't run half my games on it, including some of my favorites! So I looked into the Windows XP virtual machine. But I need to have Windows Professional edition to use it. What imbecile at Microsoft made that decision? I'd really like to kick him in the teeth! This is positively ridiculous! Microsoft can go to hell!

OK I feel better now that I've gotten that out of my system.


Not exactly fair, though i understand your frustration. Windows XP still had IIRC.....one foot....or maybe half a foot based in the older O/S architecture to allow some level of backwards compatability with older (for example, DOS based) programs from the 8/16/32bit era. This however comes with a price in performance for today's software. MS really didn't have alot of choice. Compared to Apple (from which i regularily hear howls of rage whenenver OS-X is "updated" and all support dropped for previous versions.....worse, it seems you can only download it now vs. having a CD ROM copy like my Snow Leopard disc)...MS has been more than generous in supporting a decade plus old O/S (XP) till 2014, despite there being 2, and soon to be 3 newer O/S's on the market.

Solution? I don't recommend virtual software boxes. XP mode in particular was NEVER meant to satisfy gamers, but rather give offices some options for running older Business software. Unless you can find em, XP mode out of box has no advanced graphical drivers for high perm games etc. That said....DOSBox isn't bad....but ultimately no virtual machine fully matches having the genuine O/S to run them from my personal experience.

Get or restore an older PC and use it as your Legacy game box. The legacy games don't need today's horsepower to run well and you can pick one up or build it cheaply. Myself....i still have my old Pentium 4 which i've kept in repair and use it as both a true Windows XP machine and a Windows 98 machine for the even older and crustier DOS based games which find even XP tempermental.

Don't have a copy of either O/S? they are not hard to find. I saw a copy of both XP and Windows 3.1 at a refurb computer store last weekend. cheap.


(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 22
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/14/2012 11:46:08 PM   
Mobeer


Posts: 308
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
..use it as your Legacy game box...


That's legacy game box in the sense on a new purchase like Harpoon? Surely it's time to stop selling new 16-bit software (in particular, the editor).

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 23
RE: Why Microsoft? - 9/16/2012 4:06:19 AM   
TonyE


Posts: 1486
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobeer
That's legacy game box in the sense on a new purchase like Harpoon? Surely it's time to stop selling new 16-bit software (in particular, the editor).

Heh, I'd love to write a 32-bit scenario editor but the existing economics don't make sense. For those with Windows 7 64-bit Home Premium you can purchase an Windows Anytime Upgrade to Pro or Ultimate for $90 (usually less, often much less on sale). It doesn't make you reinstall any applications.

Let's say you get it for $75, that would take thousands (more than 2, less than 10) of users paying that premium to me instead of Microsoft to write your new scenario editor. It just doesn't make sense, especially when XP mode is so easy.

Now Windows 8 64-bit is a different story unfortunately.

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/files/file/718-docs-scenario-editor-in-windows-xp-mode/

[update] example, home premium to Ultimaate for < $75 http://www.softwaremedia.com/microsoft/windows/windows-7-ultimate-upgrade-from-windows-7-home-premium.html

< Message edited by TonyE -- 9/16/2012 4:07:41 AM >

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Post #: 24
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