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Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers

 
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Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers - 9/10/2012 8:42:09 PM   
CyrusSpitama


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I am still struggling with how to properly train and use my Vals(and by extension, all carrier dive bombers) as Japan. It seems to me they could be an excellent ASW asset except that to properly train for this and to effectively launch sub strikes, I need to be at low altitude. I have done a little training with them in prior games at the various heights of 1k-6k.

Here is my issue and likely an obvious one. The rather low altitude is not really good for doing proper dive bombers runs. Also, for effective naval searching, as i understand it, I need to be at 6k for larger fleets and 1k for smaller fleets(and subs). This is means doing a dive bomber attack and search orders don't really mix that well.

Overall, my use of them so far says, mostly but not totally ignore naval search. Primary training consists of naval bombing and ground attacks (both are performed and trained around the 11k altitude). Along with this, to improve experience and defense, a little bit of low nav/ground.

I have done some readings on this and will do more. I hoped a little direct and immediate advice was available :) Any advice for me to consider with this freshly started game for training my dive bombers?

P.S. My army dive bombers (Lily) have done ok, but not well, in nav bombing for prior attempts. They too had some level of search training as well.

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RE: Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers - 9/10/2012 9:37:18 PM   
FatR

 

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I find that ASW skill works at medium altitudes just fine for divebombers.

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RE: Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers - 9/10/2012 9:43:11 PM   
CyrusSpitama


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I never earnestly tried to keep them at proper dive bomb alt and give them asw orders as well. What about the search training then? Isnt it extremely ineffective at alts greater than 6k?


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RE: Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers - 9/11/2012 3:51:13 AM   
PaxMondo


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Higher -> better range spotting, less accurate ship ID.

Lower -> lower range but more accurate ship ID.

It's a trade off.  6000 ft is a compromise.  Good horizon, but still low enough to ID.

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RE: Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers - 9/11/2012 4:39:26 AM   
Lcp Purcell

 

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But the val and other dive-bombers are so valuable out on some forward island where you don't have a air HQ for the torpedo, Or on a CVE without torpedo capability.

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RE: Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers - 9/11/2012 12:14:52 PM   
FatR

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CyrusSpitama

I never earnestly tried to keep them at proper dive bomb alt and give them asw orders as well. What about the search training then? Isnt it extremely ineffective at alts greater than 6k?



I don't see a critical difference in the effectiveness of air search at altitudes between 1k and 15k. Pilot skills and search arc saturation are more important. Similarly, my carrier DB squadrons achieve reasonable ASW results at their current standard altitude of 13-14k. I don't think that altitude (above 100) matters for NavS and ASW training at all.

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RE: Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers - 9/11/2012 2:27:44 PM   
obvert


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Don't use DBs at less than their normal range from 10-15k unless you're just using them for search and you really want to try and maximize accuracy of sightings. This is almost never. If I'm flying them from an island and want to hit a nearby sub I sometimes set them to 2k but I don't like to do this as ops losses seem to go up as well. I'm not even sure it works better to sight anything, and after Fatr's comment I'll probably stop doing this.

DBs are half of your offensive arsenal on a CV and they should always be at a proper altitude to drop their ordnance most effectively.

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RE: Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers - 9/11/2012 9:44:35 PM   
CyrusSpitama


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Once again folks, thanks for the wondrous feedback. Clarifies some things and brings up other questions! I am nearly done with my newly begun turn 1(technically turn2) and hoping for my fastest takeoff in the SRA to date!

As for all the advice cluttering my thoughts, the best way to see it in action is to try it and test results. I look forward to the next month of turns :)

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RE: Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers - 9/13/2012 4:50:44 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Don't use DBs at less than their normal range from 10-15k unless you're just using them for search and you really want to try and maximize accuracy of sightings. This is almost never. If I'm flying them from an island and want to hit a nearby sub I sometimes set them to 2k but I don't like to do this as ops losses seem to go up as well. I'm not even sure it works better to sight anything, and after Fatr's comment I'll probably stop doing this.

DBs are half of your offensive arsenal on a CV and they should always be at a proper altitude to drop their ordnance most effectively.


Unless you are doing an ASW sweep with the carriers in the backwaters where there is no chance of sighting anything but a submarine. In that case I would set them at 5k on 100% ASW and make a sweep using waypoints. Not a very efficient use of the carriers mind you, but if you are infested with subs (the AI will infest the home islands with subs) then it does some good.

I do prefer to use my land based HI kates and vals on ASW patrol though, since you generally will sight a surface TF before it can get into range to strike, at which point you simply change the Vals and Kates back to Naval interdiction at their prefered altitudes. Its all about situational awareness and having good patrol assets (Mavis, Emily) set to do what they do best, find things as far out as possible.

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RE: Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers - 9/13/2012 7:13:23 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Don't use DBs at less than their normal range from 10-15k unless you're just using them for search and you really want to try and maximize accuracy of sightings. This is almost never. If I'm flying them from an island and want to hit a nearby sub I sometimes set them to 2k but I don't like to do this as ops losses seem to go up as well. I'm not even sure it works better to sight anything, and after Fatr's comment I'll probably stop doing this.

DBs are half of your offensive arsenal on a CV and they should always be at a proper altitude to drop their ordnance most effectively.


Unless you are doing an ASW sweep with the carriers in the backwaters where there is no chance of sighting anything but a submarine. In that case I would set them at 5k on 100% ASW and make a sweep using waypoints. Not a very efficient use of the carriers mind you, but if you are infested with subs (the AI will infest the home islands with subs) then it does some good.

I do prefer to use my land based HI kates and vals on ASW patrol though, since you generally will sight a surface TF before it can get into range to strike, at which point you simply change the Vals and Kates back to Naval interdiction at their prefered altitudes. Its all about situational awareness and having good patrol assets (Mavis, Emily) set to do what they do best, find things as far out as possible.


Exactly. When they're going back to the HI damaged or to refit every attack plane in the TF plus the Jakes on BB/CA are working ASW duty and search to clear a path to safety. I usually train ASW during these times and while they're in port, and many or the CV TB groups are nearly to 70 skill levels in ASW now, while I train the DBs in search.

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RE: Vals and other carrier borne dive bombers - 9/14/2012 4:32:55 PM   
FatR

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
I do prefer to use my land based HI kates and vals on ASW patrol though, since you generally will sight a surface TF before it can get into range to strike, at which point you simply change the Vals and Kates back to Naval interdiction at their prefered altitudes. Its all about situational awareness and having good patrol assets (Mavis, Emily) set to do what they do best, find things as far out as possible.


For IJN I don't use torpedo bombers for ASW. Too valuable for NavS, and need GrdB skill too. I can't be bothered to micromanage every pilot, so divebomber pilots are trained in NavB/ASW, and torpedo bomber/level bomber pilots in NavT/NavS/(a bit of)GrdB.

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