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Random Weather Table - 9/7/2012 8:06:06 PM   
Seminole


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< Message edited by Seminole -- 9/7/2012 10:15:42 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/7/2012 8:43:16 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 1710
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: online
Good Work!

There are some errata in the patch notes.

V1.06.05

6) Rule Correction (section 22.2.2) – There will be at most one mud turn per weather zone
during turns from 01 December to 29 February (not 31 March as stated in the manual).

V1.04.22 – May 19, 2011

1) Manual Correction (Section 22.2.2) – The entry in the Random Weather Table for a die roll
of 10 in September should be M (not C). The entry for a die roll of 12 in November should be
S (not B).

V1.03 Beta 2

7. Missing Rule – Section 22.2 should contain an additional exception that states there
will be no snow or mud during December 1941 and January 1942 (only Blizzard).

It's also uncertain to me if the 1 mud per zone during summer & fall last until September 30 as the manual states, or for as long as the weather is rolled on the Jun-Sep columns which would extend the period until October 9, inclusive. Some forum posts hints to the latter.

The mandatory '41 Blizzard should probably be listed as well

< Message edited by gingerbread -- 9/7/2012 8:47:25 PM >

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 2
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/7/2012 9:57:42 PM   
Pelton

 

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Its not very random at all

My one and only "random " weather game first 3 turns of March all Blizzard all 3 zones.

Its set up to be worst then historical only. 41/42 was the worst winter in 100 yrs and for the next 50 and yet the "random" weather table is for a min of the worst possible winter as the min. How can the chances possibly be for 75% chance of something thats worst then possible.

It should be set-up for a 10% chance of weather as the non-random with a 90% chance of better weather then was historically the worst.

Another example of Red bias. We have the records, its not my option, but a matter of historical record and yet the table is basicly set-up for worst then the worst.

If the weather table was based on historical record no SHC player in there right mind would agree to random weather

I am guessing that witw weather table is set up 180% from this to favor the allies.



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 3
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/7/2012 10:58:00 PM   
HITMAN202


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As the total movement for each unit changes each turn based on many factors ( weather, type of unit, supply , leadership, fatigue, random chance, etc..) each with varying degrees of impact, weather should be similarly determined. Also mud for one turn is far less significant than for four consecutive turns: blizzard equally so. Random weather can be devastating to the Axis. At most it is a hiccup for the Soviets.

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WITE is a good addiction with no cure.

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Post #: 4
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/7/2012 11:22:47 PM   
Walloc

 

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Right, like the 3 snow in the south zone and 2 in the North zone instead of mud, Notenome had in in oct/early nov 1941. Sure it had no impact on Moscow and Rostov falling.

Guess u find what ur looking for, its not like its random and therefor will be at an advantage to different sides in different games. Just ask Speedy about how much the mud has worked for/against him as german/russian. He is a special one tho, one to be revered

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 9/7/2012 11:26:45 PM >

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 5
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/8/2012 12:23:15 AM   
Schmart

 

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And then there's the fact that a 41-45 GC doesn't last 17 turns. When the Russians are launching summer offensives, Axis players will be praying for those random mid-summer mud turns...

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 6
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/8/2012 12:45:37 AM   
HITMAN202


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Are we playing the same game ??? The Axis advantage is based on their offensive might and manueverability, both tethered to a fragile supply (in '41.) Mud and blizzard not only destroys both, but the added supply lost neuters an already declawed and defanged tiger. The first example is short-sighted in that in better weather, the Axis attack or defense would have been stiffer and the second comment ignores the simple fact that bad weather may impend the Soviets in '43-'45, but paralyzes the Axis in '41 and '42 !!!

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Post #: 7
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/8/2012 12:37:22 PM   
Pelton

 

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And the next turn in March was Mud right where SHC needed it and blizzard in other zone.

Total bias and BS for allies. The random weather is and unhistorical and basicly based on fairtales.

Its a complete joke.

All the hard work 2by3 puts into a game doing 1000's of hours of reseach to make it historical and they completely ignore something as simple as historical weather reports?

Basicly the current weather table based on The Lord of The Rings.

Its blows my mind they can be so dead on with some parts of the game and others they are completely out to lunch.

Kinda sad more then anything.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 8
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/9/2012 4:32:04 AM   
Seminole


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quote:

Its not very random at all
My one and only "random " weather game first 3 turns of March all Blizzard all 3 zones.


55% chance of blizzard in the North during March.
36% chance of blizzard in the Center during March.
27% chance of blizzard in the South during March.

Your sample size of "one and only" is too small to make any declarative statements with regard to the 'randomness' of the weather.
There is roughly a 5% chance to get blizzard in all three zones in March in a given week.
Odds of getting it three weeks in a row is even lower, any yet somebody wins the lotto every week in spite of the odds...

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 9
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/9/2012 8:47:51 AM   
AFV


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That was about a 1 in 10,000 occurance. Maybe Pelton should buy a lotto ticket.

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 10
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/13/2012 8:40:51 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

That was about a 1 in 10,000 occurance. Maybe Pelton should buy a lotto ticket.


I did and I lost, we need a smiley with a big L on its forehead.


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 11
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/17/2012 1:10:22 AM   
dontra85

 

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what would make the random weather table enticing is a minor tweek. first no mud in jul/aug. i have not read any material where mud was a factor during the summer. Since blizzard is the only weather option in jan it is reasonable for there to be no mud in the summer. i do like the randomness forwhen the spring and fall mud turns start and end as well as when the snow and blizzard turnsstart. this would add in a variablethat would get rid of certanty. right now you plan around a defined date that weather will ocdur. i still like may/and june having 50 50 chance of each weather but otherwise once a weatherpattern starts there should be no change untill the turns around the historical periosd which then should be randomized.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 12
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/17/2012 7:24:40 AM   
Speedy

 

Posts: 14372
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Right, like the 3 snow in the south zone and 2 in the North zone instead of mud, Notenome had in in oct/early nov 1941. Sure it had no impact on Moscow and Rostov falling.

Guess u find what ur looking for, its not like its random and therefor will be at an advantage to different sides in different games. Just ask Speedy about how much the mud has worked for/against him as german/russian. He is a special one tho, one to be revered

Rasmus


Indeed. It P's me off when you just hear this one sided stuff.

A FACT (as it's happened to me): the last 4 random mud turns I've had playing as SU in 1941 Campaign's have occured at times when they negatively affected ME not the Axis.

Get it straight. It's not like the random mud turns always occur only on the Axis when they don't need it. Obviously, when it does occur in one of 'their' zones in 41 Summer it's bad but to say it's a joke that only favours the SU is a totaly falsity and a lie.

Off my Soapbox....

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Post #: 13
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/17/2012 7:28:29 PM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Right, like the 3 snow in the south zone and 2 in the North zone instead of mud, Notenome had in in oct/early nov 1941. Sure it had no impact on Moscow and Rostov falling.

Guess u find what ur looking for, its not like its random and therefor will be at an advantage to different sides in different games. Just ask Speedy about how much the mud has worked for/against him as german/russian. He is a special one tho, one to be revered

Rasmus


Indeed. It P's me off when you just hear this one sided stuff.

A FACT (as it's happened to me): the last 4 random mud turns I've had playing as SU in 1941 Campaign's have occured at times when they negatively affected ME not the Axis.

Get it straight. It's not like the random mud turns always occur only on the Axis when they don't need it. Obviously, when it does occur in one of 'their' zones in 41 Summer it's bad but to say it's a joke that only favours the SU is a totaly falsity and a lie.

Off my Soapbox....


Not quite..but I get what your saying. One big gripe that you cannot defend is the lack of snow in the first Dec/Jan 41. A snow turn in the Dec 41 would be a gem for the Germans. Not quite sure how a mud turn could disrupt the SU that much but not affect the axis. In my current mp game I've had 3 mud turns in our first summer and only 1 hurt me bad. Not a killer but from a game stand point it is one sided because I have 0 chance of weather randomly favoring me in Dec/Jan. It can either be just like non-random or worse....never better. Also, Its hardly a lie when the subject matter is subjective.

(in reply to Speedy)
Post #: 14
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/17/2012 8:11:42 PM   
Zonso

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Right, like the 3 snow in the south zone and 2 in the North zone instead of mud, Notenome had in in oct/early nov 1941. Sure it had no impact on Moscow and Rostov falling.

Guess u find what ur looking for, its not like its random and therefor will be at an advantage to different sides in different games. Just ask Speedy about how much the mud has worked for/against him as german/russian. He is a special one tho, one to be revered

Rasmus


Indeed. It P's me off when you just hear this one sided stuff.

A FACT (as it's happened to me): the last 4 random mud turns I've had playing as SU in 1941 Campaign's have occured at times when they negatively affected ME not the Axis.

Get it straight. It's not like the random mud turns always occur only on the Axis when they don't need it. Obviously, when it does occur in one of 'their' zones in 41 Summer it's bad but to say it's a joke that only favours the SU is a totaly falsity and a lie.

Off my Soapbox....



Interesting, as a predominantly German player since the games release I really have a hard time envisioning the circumstances where a German would ever want Mud in '41. If he does, he may have done something wrong earlier! I also think it is a definite advantage for the Russian side as the '41 campaign sets the tone for the whole game.

The extent of the 'North' zone pretty much blankets most of the vital areas down to Stalingrad(!) and the time in '41 when Mud becomes more than a possibility, it will have a drastic effect on the campaign. I have just experienced this while making the moves to isolate Leningrad and trying to pocket several Russian divisions. Additionally the drive on Moscow will have to stop, allowing the Russians to reinforce and firm up their defenses.

True, later in the campaign Snow instead of Mud may allow the German to extend the campaign a little longer or make a grab for something more doable. However, imo that little extra is really inconsequential compared to what can be gained, or lost, from the summer campaign. Conversely, playing with random weather as German has made me a little wary of overextending so may not be willing to take advantage later anyways, even if it does arise.

(in reply to Speedy)
Post #: 15
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/17/2012 9:34:29 PM   
Speedy

 

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A Mud turn in say North Soviet Zone when the Axis are in Central Soviet Zone is GOOD for the Axis. It means the SU movement is slowed AND Fort production is slowed whilst the Axis can move into that Zone freely knowing there's no more Mud and even the 4 Autumn mud turns are now an un-certainty and are likely to be at least better for the Axis based on fixed weather. Etc.

Please note I play both Axis and SU so I can CLEARLY see and have experienced how bad it is to have Mud in a Zone where it directly affects the Axis. I'm trying to restore some balance to this rather than Pelton claiming it's an Allied Bias. It's not for the reasosn I state above. It can negatively affect the SU and the chance of it doing so (mud in Summer 41 and non-mud in Autumn 41) is pretty even.

I totally get the Dec/Jan Blizzard arguments BTW and agree

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Post #: 16
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/18/2012 10:00:43 AM   
janh

 

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Totally agree. Playing entirely without mulling and chaining and whatsoever tricks to keep Panzergroups continuously moving forward, I require a turn of rest, refit and HQ-build-up every 3-4 turns, i.e. whenever the infantry's caught up to open the next Soviet frontline for another jump. That often leads to a turn or two break in front of the land brigde or a halt beyond Krivoi Rog or so, as it should be if the logistics model wouldn't have these loopholes. These pause turns are ideal turns to hurt SHC with mud, as Speedy pointed out. No need to give the time to raise higher forts or move units by land to the front, or give them high supply and refit rates while reorganize.

PS. Seminole, nice & useful graphic indeed!

< Message edited by janh -- 9/18/2012 10:02:45 AM >

(in reply to Speedy)
Post #: 17
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/18/2012 11:29:53 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dontra85

what would make the random weather table enticing is a minor tweek. first no mud in jul/aug. i have not read any material where mud was a factor during the summer. Since blizzard is the only weather option in jan it is reasonable for there to be no mud in the summer. i do like the randomness forwhen the spring and fall mud turns start and end as well as when the snow and blizzard turnsstart. this would add in a variablethat would get rid of certanty. right now you plan around a defined date that weather will ocdur. i still like may/and june having 50 50 chance of each weather but otherwise once a weatherpattern starts there should be no change untill the turns around the historical periosd which then should be randomized.


There is not 50/50 chance of clear in May, what chart are u reading?

During the month of May in my game vs Hugh its been

North Snow/Snow/Mud/Mud
Center Mud/Mud/Clear/Mud
South Mud/Mud/Mud/Mud

The Northern zone has been Blizzard from late October 41- April 42 then snow and Mud.

1 clear turn in 12 chances is allot lower then 50%.

There is only a 33% chance of clear in May-June 18 in south zone, 25% in center and 18% in north. Which is far worse then was historical.

As is clear the historically worst fall/winter/spring on record is the best possible out come for GHC.

The weather table is ass backwards. It is set-up to make dam sure that the weather is worse then was historical over a 150 yrs of recorded weather.

Its a joke based on nothing other then The Lord of The Rings.

How everything esle can be based on history(men/tanks/planes/units/leaders ect) and the random weather tables are based on nothing other then tring to balance out the game.

Historically the best possible out come for SHC should be the base line then easyer and easyer winters for GHC the norm. As of now its really only possible to get worse weather then was a once in a 100 yr winter.

Base the random weather table on historical weather records and no SHC would ever agree to random weather.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to dontra85)
Post #: 18
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/18/2012 11:43:10 AM   
Speedy

 

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From: Reading, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Its a joke based on nothing other then The Lord of The Rings.



If that's the case where's The Nazgul and Mount Doom?

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Post #: 19
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/18/2012 12:43:13 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 2294
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From: Queensland, Australia.
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quote:

Base the random weather table on historical weather records and no SHC would ever agree to random weather.


I am inclined to agree with this.



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(in reply to Speedy)
Post #: 20
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/19/2012 12:38:47 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Its a joke based on nothing other then The Lord of The Rings.



If that's the case where's The Nazgul and Mount Doom?


Come on Moscow is Mt Doom, everyone knows that.

The Nazgul were all KIA by Gandalf(Pelton's wife killed them as only hot chicks can killem) when 1v1 = 2v1 was nerfed. You know the flying Pig rule.

It was a bitch killing off GG's own little baby, but someone had to do it,

Wow old news where have you been, Rivendale?

< Message edited by Pelton -- 9/19/2012 12:43:58 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Speedy)
Post #: 21
RE: Random Weather Table - 9/19/2012 6:16:32 AM   
Speedy

 

Posts: 14372
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline


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Post #: 22
RE: Random Weather Table - 10/18/2012 8:13:25 PM   
morvael


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From: Poland
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I was wondering if the D(11) mentioned in the rules is really a 11-sided die with 1/11 probability for each result, or is it a 2D6 which also has 11 results but completely different distribution.

(in reply to Speedy)
Post #: 23
RE: Random Weather Table - 10/18/2012 8:23:30 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

I was wondering if the D(11) mentioned in the rules is really a 11-sided die with 1/11 probability for each result, or is it a 2D6 which also has 11 results but completely different distribution.


From page 18 in the manual:

quote:

Die (x): The computer simulates the roll of a die, with an equal chance to roll a number from one to x.


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(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 24
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